Gasper: I think Bill is realizing his system doesn't work without high level QB play

[‘Mondre]

I think Bill is smart enough to just see what he’s got, knowing we won’t win the sb.

simple. We’re grasping here.

we’re rebuilding. I trust him to know whether or not we need a flashy x receiver (I want one), but he knows Mac better than anybody.

 

[PScottman]

I can only add that I saw Joe Kapp play for our Patriots. Now, when the QB takes the snap and takes his drop, his passes should have some kind of spiral form....do we all agree? I SAW Kapp make throws where the ball was hurled through the air END OVER END. You see, when you're a fan and you witness THAT, it leaves you with a sense of embarrassment that THIS guy is supposed to BE a QB and IS your QB. I'd rather not rip open the emotional scars I have from this particular slice of Pats history.

This made me chuckle...

"The Patriots...where it's not just the punter that can get the ball from point A to point B end over end!"

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I can only add that I saw Joe Kapp play for our Patriots. Now, when the QB takes the snap and takes his drop, his passes should have some kind of spiral form....do we all agree? I SAW Kapp make throws where the ball was hurled through the air END OVER END. You see, when you're a fan and you witness THAT, it leaves you with a sense of embarrassment that THIS guy is supposed to BE a QB and IS your QB. I'd rather not rip open the emotional scars I have from this particular slice of Pats history.

Joe Kapp in his later years...lmfao...

Mosca gives insight into infamous Kapp fight

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Joe Kapp in his later years...lmfao...

View attachment 36627

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Mosca gives insight into infamous Kapp fight

www.sportsnet.ca

Nice right landed square on the jaw. Fat Mosca dropped like a sack of potatoes

 

[sb1]

If Bill feels he needs an elite QB to win then maybe it's time to rethink Bill's standing among the all time great coaches.

What coach couldn't win games with an elite QB?

 

[archstanton543]

If Bill feels he needs an elite QB to win then maybe it's time to rethink Bill's standing among the all time great coaches.

What coach couldn't win games with an elite QB?

Chuck Knoll?

 

[sb1]

Chuck Knoll?

Noll had Bradshaw winning SBs

 

[archstanton543]

Noll had Bradshaw winning SBs

Not elite.

 

[sb1]

Not elite.

I meant if you give any Joe Average coach an elite QB, I'm sure they could win games. Peyton Manning took Jim Caldwell to a SB. Caldwell is not a good coach.

If Bill feels he needs one to win then what does that say about him?

 

[The Boston Patriot]

What system really works without high level QB play?

 

[Steve102]

I'm Impressed. I didn't know there were more QBs for this team besides Brady.

 

[50-yard-line]

Not elite.

He's in the Hall of Fame, and he deserved it. He played in a different era. You can't compare stats to now. Go look at Unitas and Namath, for example - anyone throwing those numbers NOW would be run out of town.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I can only add that I saw Joe Kapp play for our Patriots. Now, when the QB takes the snap and takes his drop, his passes should have some kind of spiral form....do we all agree? I SAW Kapp make throws where the ball was hurled through the air END OVER END. You see, when you're a fan and you witness THAT, it leaves you with a sense of embarrassment that THIS guy is supposed to BE a QB and IS your QB. I'd rather not rip open the emotional scars I have from this particular slice of Pats history.

I saw Kapp play for the Pats. Memory was repressed until now. Saw the tumbling attempts at passes.
I could have played QB better except for my screaming as about to be sacked by a big fat DL and then whimpering in a fetal position on the ground.

 

[Bruins29]

I saw Kapp play for the Pats. Memory was repressed until now. Saw the tumbling attempts at passes.
I could have played QB better except for my screaming as about to be sacked by a big fat DL and then whimpering in a fetal position on the ground.

Well I guess we can just all agree at this point that Actual Pats Fan is either a major troll or brain dead.

 

[Ring 6]

The notion that any QB in today's league can just be a game manager is faulty I think. Qbs need to elevate not only their game but the players around them. Every single team is flawed, some more than others. I agree that we thought the overall team would be better but it's not, it has a ton of issues so that is where you need the QB to cover things up. Mac obviously isn't that guy yet and it remains to be seen if can develop into one.

But I feel like we are stuck in the 2001 thinking somewhat. That way of winning is long gone. The NFL is so offensive now with the rule changes and the way the game is played with all the college concepts that it is won largely on the production of the O, specifically the QB.

The QB position has become more important but it has also become easier.
The real distinction is what is your definition of good.
If it’s about stats there are QBs today who look good on a stat sheet but its a product of what the game has become and they would play like crap in previous eras that didn’t have rules swung ridiculously in favor of offense, passing and QBs.
Pretty much every team in the league is throwing the ball 30-35 times a game. They are doing that because the rules have the defense starting with one hand tied behind their back. 20 or more of those throws in a game are schemed and any competent QB can find the first progression and throw to him.


If your criteria is whether the QB is one you can win regularly with and win championships with its much deeper than stats. In any given typical game 90% of the qbs job is largely easy. What separates QBs are not just the other 10% but the fact that against top competition it’s not easy. You either have
1) a good defense that makes a lot more plays difficult on the qb
2) an opposing offense that keeps the pressure on by scoring or
3) a close game with many clutch situations that lie in the QBs hands.

Pretty much any qb with an NFL arm and a brain can put up big numbers. But ultimately what is more important than the numbers is when they were accumulated and what they look like in gotta have it situations.
A 7-7-80 TD drive when you are losing 35-14 gives the same stats as a 7-7-80 TD drive that puts a game away or turns a 3 point lead to 10, or tied a game in thr 4th quarter.
QBs today, most of the time, have it much easier than their predecessors, but when the game is on the line it is much more likely today that you win or lose because if your QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Well I guess we can just all agree at this point that Actual Pats Fan is either a major troll or brain dead.

Eh, he is a good guy. He just loves old time football, nostalgia and history. (And Doug Flutie)
More than anyone else on this board he is consistent and unashamed if what he believes.
He is a magnet for catching crap for people but he always handles it like a gentlemen.

He is the shining example of why this trend of people feeling they need to eviscerate someone because they have a different opinion is garbage that destroys social media and websites like this.
Just leave the dude alone.

 

[RIpats88]

The QB position has become more important but it has also become easier.
The real distinction is what is your definition of good.
If it’s about stats there are QBs today who look good on a stat sheet but its a product of what the game has become and they would play like crap in previous eras that didn’t have rules swung ridiculously in favor of offense, passing and QBs.
Pretty much every team in the league is throwing the ball 30-35 times a game. They are doing that because the rules have the defense starting with one hand tied behind their back. 20 or more of those throws in a game are schemed and any competent QB can find the first progression and throw to him.


If your criteria is whether the QB is one you can win regularly with and win championships with its much deeper than stats. In any given typical game 90% of the qbs job is largely easy. What separates QBs are not just the other 10% but the fact that against top competition it’s not easy. You either have
1) a good defense that makes a lot more plays difficult on the qb
2) an opposing offense that keeps the pressure on by scoring or
3) a close game with many clutch situations that lie in the QBs hands.

Pretty much any qb with an NFL arm and a brain can put up big numbers. But ultimately what is more important than the numbers is when they were accumulated and what they look like in gotta have it situations.
A 7-7-80 TD drive when you are losing 35-14 gives the same stats as a 7-7-80 TD drive that puts a game away or turns a 3 point lead to 10, or tied a game in thr 4th quarter.
QBs today, most of the time, have it much easier than their predecessors, but when the game is on the line it is much more likely today that you win or lose because if your QB.

Yeah I mean guys like Kirk cousins are putting up better seasons than Manning or Brady had in the early 00's

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah I mean guys like Kirk cousins are putting up better seasons than Manning or Brady had in the early 00's

And guys in the 00s were putting up numbers than much better QBs from the 60s and 70s.

 

[Joker]

whenever one looks way back in their memory bank and compares incidents and experiences one will experience a wide array of variation from person to person. Take the Super Bowl 42 play where Eli "escaped" the "in the grasp" call. Right after the game there were fans that adamantly stated there was no holding, others that you don't call holding that late and yet others that said what they saw, the most egregious example of organized holding across the Giants offensive line in NFL history. The debate raged on and on and insults flew between fan bases and then the clip of the play was released...seemingly ending the debate....but it persists to this day, even in the face of the video record. Hey, that's sports in the USA...perceptions becomes realities.

"

The tape of the game must have made the result even more haunting. On the Manning escape, the New England rush overwhelmed nearly the entire Giants offensive line. Jarvis Green exploded past Shaun O'Hara to the center's left and plowed through left guard Rich Seubert, and Richard Seymour looped behind Jarvis Green and beat O'Hara to his right. The offensive linemen tried to play the rush as if they were switching on a basketball pick-and-roll, and they failed miserably. As Seymour and Green converged on the immobile Manning, O'Hara said he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and then thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game."
But as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0."

 

[Pats1971]

Yeah I mean guys like Kirk cousins are putting up better seasons than Manning or Brady had in the early 00's

Well yeah but the passing game is so different now.