For everyone that knows more than JMD

[203Pat]

For someone who wasn't very high on Mac when we took him I like what I have seen in the preseason and the first 2 weeks. He isn't lighting the world on fire but he is taking what the defense gives and wasn't the reason we lost week 1.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Thread went exactly as I expected:

1. All the things scouts said about Mac that are positive (pocket awareness, vision, accuracy) are true and proven to be true.

2. All the things scouts said about Mac that are negative (arm strength, big play ability, ability to release quickly on downfield throws) are way, way too early to tell, he could hit them if he wants, it's because of the gameplan and game situation, and since you don't play quarterback, how dare you criticize, and since you're not an offensive coordinator, your point is invalid, and also we won so Mac's lack of big plays doesn't matter.

Should have known this was where it was going.

Welcome to my world ... Literal hell when it comes to this stuff lol. You can be objective and dead on about a prospect and people will find offense somewhere.

Most people have a hard time with critical thinking and seeing things besides black and white. And gods forbid if don't change and dig in on every opinion you've ever had.

What's funny is people end of talking about how a player improved in a certain area but 2 years prior were saying how nothing is wrong and that prospect is perfect. Which is sad bc watching a player grow is one of the best things about the game.

The JT video is a perfect example. Insightful, articulate and objective. Biased though bc he didn't have Mac as QB1 pre-draft.

It gets boring.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

For someone who wasn't very high on Mac when we took him I like what I have seen in the preseason and the first 2 weeks. He isn't lighting the world on fire but he is taking what the defense gives and wasn't the reason we lost week 1.

He's played well. I love the pick. Whether he winds up being the long-term answer or not, the team made the right call in picking hiim.

Almost every scout said Highest Floor, but also Lowest Ceiling. To dismiss lack of big plays is homerism, just like claiming "the book is shut" after two games is an anti-Patriots agenda. Still a lot to prove; so far, in this very small sample size, it's generally what the scouts said about Jones.

It doesn't mean much, other than that I'd be happier if I saw him hit some big plays, rather than seeing lot of agenda drive assumptions about why that hasn't happened, but overall I'll definitely take what we've seen, and I'm optimistic.

 

[Pats2000]

Thread went exactly as I expected:

1. All the things scouts said about Mac that are positive (pocket awareness, vision, accuracy) are true and proven to be true.

2. All the things scouts said about Mac that are negative (arm strength, big play ability, ability to release quickly on downfield throws) are way, way too early to tell, he could hit them if he wants, it's because of the gameplan and game situation, and since you don't play quarterback, how dare you criticize, and since you're not an offensive coordinator, your point is invalid, and also we won so Mac's lack of big plays doesn't matter.

Should have known this was where it was going.

He has released quickly on downfield throws multiple times so far. Every pundit that is watching him is surprised at his arm strength. Just because you don't like where a thread is going, doesn't make everyone wrong and you right.

 

[Huckleberry1]

You still mad the JMD is the OC Eric Mangini?

Triump is still mad that Belichick chose Brady over Bledsoe, But only because Brady had a weak arm and was slow of foot.

 

[Huckleberry1]

99% sure Triumph was joking

Triump hates the Jones pick, he isn’t joking at all.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

All you do is attack people's opinions with the same, tired formula:

1. Are you an offensive coordinator? NO - so you know nothing. You can't criticize.
2. Are you an NFL GM with 6 rings? NO - so you know nothing. Your opinion is trash.
3. Do you you play quarterback in the NFL? NO - so how dare you point out that Jones should have waited a little longer.
4. Are you a pundit? NO - so what you're saying can't be true.

Except when those amateur opinions align with what you think....then the opinions are great and completely valid. You, @LFGMac10, are also not an NFL scout, an NFL GM, an NFL coach, a QB, or any of those things. So don't post here at all if you're going to hold others to a standard that you also don't meet.

He has released quickly on downfield throws multiple times so far. Every pundit that is watching him is surprised at his arm strength. Just because you don't like where a thread is going, doesn't make everyone wrong and you right.

Every pundit? Really? Sounds pretty exagerrated. For one, the board's hero, Evan Lazar, noted that Mac missed a handful of open receivers downfield due to hesitation.

I have a balanced view of Mac; if anything, if I told people outside of Patriots fans about my thoughts, they'd call me a homer with overblown observations. From your extreme homer-based viewpoint, everything that isn't 10000% pro-Pariots is anti-Patriots.

 

[203Pat]

He's played well. I love the pick. Whether he winds up being the long-term answer or not, the team made the right call in picking hiim.

Almost every scout said Highest Floor, but also Lowest Ceiling. To dismiss lack of big plays is homerism, just like claiming "the book is shut" after two games is an anti-Patriots agenda. Still a lot to prove; so far, in this very small sample size, it's generally what the scouts said about Jones.

It doesn't mean much, other than that I'd be happier if I saw him hit some big plays, rather than seeing lot of agenda drive assumptions about why that hasn't happened, but overall I'll definitely take what we've seen, and I'm optimistic.

Honestly if he turned out to be a pre injury Chad Pennington I would be pretty happy. I saw that comp somewhere at some point and thought it was a solid one. Granted it was a small sample size but that season he won the starting job before Pennington got hurt he looked great. Never had the strongest arm but was smart and tough and made all the throws he needed to.

 

[zydecochris]

He already it is. They're a cult.

Yeah, that confused me, too. Jones had arguably the greatest year ever by a college QB. How Joe Burrow goes #1 overall and no one questions it, and then 12 months later Jones goes 15, is a mystery that will probably never be solved.

It's amazing what the internet and the media can do. Somehow in a 3 month window, the media convinced itself that Trey Lance and Zach Wilson were proven to have better careers in college (even though they didn't).

I there are two reasons he went 15 instead of higher, to the great benefit of the Pats:

• He is a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically. At Alabama Jalen Hurt came in as a freshman, had amazing emotionally maturity, looked like a Texas High School weightlifting champ (which he was), won the job as a freshman, and took the team to the National Championship game which he narrowly loses. Tua Tagovailoa looks amazing as a freshman and came in at half time and wins the next National Championship as a freshman QB. As a freshman Mac was a painfully skinny, 6'2" 180 lb player that didn't even look like a kicker, and he gained his emotionally maturity after his freshman year. As a junior there wasn't even a whiff of a QB controversy until Tua was lost for the year and Mac surprised everyone with his growth and performance, and then he dominated as a senior QB.
• That wonderful, wonderful (because without it he would have never fallen to 15) shirtless picture of him a couple of years back smoking a victory cigar, the famous "Dad bod" picture. I suspect that picture is the reason that San Francisco passed on him, he still hadn't physically matured into a normal looking NFL athlete at that point, while Trey Lance looks like a model for an Under Armor add. So far, their loss and our gain

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I there are two reasons he went 15 instead of higher, to the great benefit of the Pats:

• He is a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically. At Alabama Jalen Hurt came in as a freshman, had amazing emotionally maturity, looked like a Texas High School weightlifting champ (which he was), won the job as a freshman, and took the team to the National Championship game which he narrowly loses. Tua Tagovailoa looks amazing as a freshman and came in at half time and wins the next National Championship as a freshman QB. As a freshman Mac was a painfully skinny, 6'2" 180 lb player that didn't even look like a kicker, and he gained his emotionally maturity after his freshman year. As a junior there wasn't even a whiff of a QB controversy until Tua was lost for the year and Mac surprised everyone with his growth and performance, and then he dominated as a senior QB.

Burrow went #1 overall at 24 yo after transferring.

• That wonderful, wonderful (because without it he would have never fallen to 15) shirtless picture of him a couple of years back smoking a victory cigar, the famous "Dad bod" picture. I suspect that picture is the reason that San Francisco passed on him, he still hadn't physically matured into a normal looking NFL athlete at that point, while Trey Lance looks like a model for an Under Armor add. So far, their loss and our gain

Tunsil had a video leaked as the draft was unfolding with him wearing a gas mask and went 13. Teams didn't pass on him bc of his body and were well aware of his physique prior to that coming out.

In fact it's tough to make an argument that he "fell" to 15 imo. That's pretty high.

 

[Clonamery]

He's played well. I love the pick. Whether he winds up being the long-term answer or not, the team made the right call in picking hiim.

Almost every scout said Highest Floor, but also Lowest Ceiling. To dismiss lack of big plays is homerism, just like claiming "the book is shut" after two games is an anti-Patriots agenda. Still a lot to prove; so far, in this very small sample size, it's generally what the scouts said about Jones.

It doesn't mean much, other than that I'd be happier if I saw him hit some big plays, rather than seeing lot of agenda drive assumptions about why that hasn't happened, but overall I'll definitely take what we've seen, and I'm optimistic.

2 Games. Ice ice Borges.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

2 Games. Ice ice Borges.

Someone just posted Mac would go #1 in a re-draft. It's wild out there.

 

[BigPeteG]

I there are two reasons he went 15 instead of higher, to the great benefit of the Pats:

• He is a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically. At Alabama Jalen Hurt came in as a freshman, had amazing emotionally maturity, looked like a Texas High School weightlifting champ (which he was), won the job as a freshman, and took the team to the National Championship game which he narrowly loses. Tua Tagovailoa looks amazing as a freshman and came in at half time and wins the next National Championship as a freshman QB. As a freshman Mac was a painfully skinny, 6'2" 180 lb player that didn't even look like a kicker, and he gained his emotionally maturity after his freshman year. As a junior there wasn't even a whiff of a QB controversy until Tua was lost for the year and Mac surprised everyone with his growth and performance, and then he dominated as a senior QB.
• That wonderful, wonderful (because without it he would have never fallen to 15) shirtless picture of him a couple of years back smoking a victory cigar, the famous "Dad bod" picture. I suspect that picture is the reason that San Francisco passed on him, he still hadn't physically matured into a normal looking NFL athlete at that point, while Trey Lance looks like a model for an Under Armor add. So far, their loss and our gain

Interesting..

I think it is less nuanced then that. Mac fell because he doesn't have elite arm talent. If he could throw the ball with the same velocity of Zach Wilson or Trevor Lawrence he would have gone #1.

ESPN made this whole narrative that he was too slow. But he runs faster then plenty of QBs in the league. I'd take him in race over Brady, Ben, Cousins, etc..

Mac Jones is like drafting a modern MLB pitcher with an 89mph fastball. He has good control - can hit he corners - has a nice breaking pitch. But can you be a top flight pitcher with an 89mph fastball? Will he gain more on his fastball? ..

OTOH a guy like Lawrence can hit 101mph on the gun..

Mac Jones has an A in the mental game - a B- in the mobility department - but it is his B- arm that scares the scouts, GMs etc. Let's think of this way - how many NFL QBs can Mac Jones throw with more velocity then? No one would care that much about his dad bod if he could gun it across the field on the run for 50 yards and hit his guy in the hands like a Mahommes can do.

 

[EddardSnow67]

Mac Jones can be successful with average arm strength. Plenty of quarterbacks have done so. At the same time, it's ok to admit that he would probably have an easier time doing so if he had a stronger arm. Ideally you want a quarterback with all the desired traits to succeed, but those guys don't come around particularly often. You might have a half dozen of them in the league at any given time and that might be a bit of a liberal estimate.

 

[condon84]

Someone just posted Mac would go #1 in a re-draft. It's wild out there.

Esiason said the same thing (not sure if this was posted in this thread already) - Boomer Esiason says Patriots' Mac Jones would go No. 1 in 2021 NFL re-draft: 'I think everybody sees that'

Esiason was asked who would be the first selection in a recent appearance on WEEI's "The Greg Hill Show." His choice would be the quarterback the Patriots selected 15th overall.

“Well, I think Mac Jones would be [the No. 1 pick]," Esiason said. "I think everybody sees that."

 

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting..

I think it is less nuanced then that. Mac fell because he doesn't have elite arm talent. If he could throw the ball with the same velocity of Zach Wilson or Trevor Lawrence he would have gone #1.

ESPN made this whole narrative that he was too slow. But he runs faster then plenty of QBs in the league. I'd take him in race over Brady, Ben, Cousins, etc..

Mac Jones is like drafting a modern MLB pitcher with an 89mph fastball. He has good control - can hit he corners - has a nice breaking pitch. But can you be a top flight pitcher with an 89mph fastball? Will he gain more on his fastball? ..

OTOH a guy like Lawrence can hit 101mph on the gun..

Mac Jones has an A in the mental game - a B- in the mobility department - but it is his B- arm that scares the scouts, GMs etc. Let's think of this way - how many NFL QBs can Mac Jones throw with more velocity then? No one would care that much about his dad bod if he could gun it across the field on the run for 50 yards and hit his guy in the hands like a Mahommes can do.

This 1000 times.

GMs and coaches think they can take the talented QB and mold/form-fit into their offensive system.

The NEP certainly value physical talent but they value accuracy, leadership, decision-making and grit just as much.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Interesting..

I think it is less nuanced then that. Mac fell because he doesn't have elite arm talent. If he could throw the ball with the same velocity of Zach Wilson or Trevor Lawrence he would have gone #1.

ESPN made this whole narrative that he was too slow. But he runs faster then plenty of QBs in the league. I'd take him in race over Brady, Ben, Cousins, etc..

Mac Jones is like drafting a modern MLB pitcher with an 89mph fastball. He has good control - can hit he corners - has a nice breaking pitch. But can you be a top flight pitcher with an 89mph fastball? Will he gain more on his fastball? ..

OTOH a guy like Lawrence can hit 101mph on the gun..

Mac Jones has an A in the mental game - a B- in the mobility department - but it is his B- arm that scares the scouts, GMs etc. Let's think of this way - how many NFL QBs can Mac Jones throw with more velocity then? No one would care that much about his dad bod if he could gun it across the field on the run for 50 yards and hit his guy in the hands like a Mahommes can do.

Not to mention the NFL has been watching Lawrence and Fields since they have been teens. Lance is a freak and came at the perfect time - after Allen had his breakout year. Wilson also had a breakout year, pretty decent arm talent and looks like a tik-tok twink. It's not hard to see why Mac was QB5. That said he still went top 15, that's very high.

And like others have mentioned his arm strength can improve. I happen to think his mechanics could improve some and that might help. In any case it's the easiest fix there is for a QB.

And you don't need to be the strongest guy in the room. Just pass a threshold.

 

[moosekill]

Burrow went #1 overall at 24 yo after transferring.

Tunsil had a video leaked as the draft was unfolding with him wearing a gas mask and went 13. Teams didn't pass on him bc of his body and were well aware of his physique prior to that coming out.

In fact it's tough to make an argument that he "fell" to 15 imo. That's pretty high.

But BGC doesn't this go back to the draft being inexact? You value certain things in a qb differently than others do. If Brady was coming out now you wouldn't rate him highly at all. Even though we now know he will become the greatest ever. Jones was dismissed for 3 reasons. He is not an athletic speciman. He is not a running qb. He played at Alabama with an amazing line and amazing receivers. In many draftnics minds those negatives outweighed the fact that last year he won the national championship, he had arguably the best college season ever had by a quarterback, and he was known to be incredibly smart and hard working, with great touch, but not a plus arm.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Esiason said the same thing (not sure if this was posted in this thread already) - Boomer Esiason says Patriots' Mac Jones would go No. 1 in 2021 NFL re-draft: 'I think everybody sees that'

Esiason was asked who would be the first selection in a recent appearance on WEEI's "The Greg Hill Show." His choice would be the quarterback the Patriots selected 15th overall.

“Well, I think Mac Jones would be [the No. 1 pick]," Esiason said. "I think everybody sees that."

Yea he's on meth if he really believes that. Nothing against Mac but that order isn't changing bc of two games lol holy smokes.

 

[venecol]

I there are two reasons he went 15 instead of higher, to the great benefit of the Pats:

• He is a bit of a late bloomer, especially physically. At Alabama Jalen Hurt came in as a freshman, had amazing emotionally maturity, looked like a Texas High School weightlifting champ (which he was), won the job as a freshman, and took the team to the National Championship game which he narrowly loses. Tua Tagovailoa looks amazing as a freshman and came in at half time and wins the next National Championship as a freshman QB. As a freshman Mac was a painfully skinny, 6'2" 180 lb player that didn't even look like a kicker, and he gained his emotionally maturity after his freshman year. As a junior there wasn't even a whiff of a QB controversy until Tua was lost for the year and Mac surprised everyone with his growth and performance, and then he dominated as a senior QB.
• That wonderful, wonderful (because without it he would have never fallen to 15) shirtless picture of him a couple of years back smoking a victory cigar, the famous "Dad bod" picture. I suspect that picture is the reason that San Francisco passed on him, he still hadn't physically matured into a normal looking NFL athlete at that point, while Trey Lance looks like a model for an Under Armor add. So far, their loss and our gain

I thought he dropped to #15 because he's got a fat ass.