Fix The Trenches

[jimnance]

I think Barmore can be used on the end to penetrate - let's plug the middle.

Barmore is 6'4 310- way too big for a 4-3 de.
If youre talking about 3-4 de(which is basically the same thing as a 4-3 dt) his size is good- similar to Seymour, but hes not going to be edge-rushing. In a 3-4 the olbs are the edge-rushers. I assume you were talking about him as an outside rusher not an interior rusher. Hes way too big for that. Plus youre removing him from his biggest strength- which is interior rushing and pushing the pocket.
Granted his runstopping was inconsistent but hes a rookie. This kid is gonna be a stud. His runstopping will improve. I think the Pats need to add a better nt/fatty to pair alongside him. Nobody on the current roster does that well. I noticed you asked this question in another thread and mentioned Wilfork. Big Vince was a 3-4 de which is dimilar to 4-3 dt. He never played on the edge. Vince was very versatile as theres not many who could play nt and 3-4 de and be outstanding at both runstopping 2gapping and also interior passrushing pocketpushing. He did em all very well. Seymour could do this as well but didnt play a lot of nt.
Theres a thread up.now that covers a lot of ground on nts and dts in both the draft and fa/trades. I know @BGC,@Username and a few others have some good info on this.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Barmore is 6'4 310- way too big for a 4-3 de.
If youre talking about 3-4 de(which is basically the same thing as a 4-3 dt) his size is good- similar to Seymour, but hes not going to be edge-rushing. In a 3-4 the olbs are the edge-rushers. I assume you were talking about him as an outside rusher not an interior rusher. Hes way too big for that. Plus youre removing him from his biggest strength- which is interior rushing and pushing the pocket.
Granted his runstopping was inconsistent but hes a rookie. This kid is gonna be a stud. His runstopping will improve. I think the Pats need to add a better nt/fatty to pair alongside him. Nobody on the current roster does that well. I noticed you asked this question in another thread and mentioned Wilfork. Big Vince was a 3-4 de which is dimilar to 4-3 dt. He never played on the edge. Vince was very versatile as theres not many who could play nt and 3-4 de and be outstanding at both runstopping 2gapping and also interior passrushing pocketpushing. He did em all very well. Seymour could do this as well but didnt play a lot of nt.
Theres a thread up.now that covers a lot of ground on nts and dts in both the draft and fa/trades. I know @BGC,@Username and a few others have some good info on this.

Thanks. Maybe what I am saying is can we get two more DL, one a DT who can 2-gap and one that is the equivalent of Barmore? 1 in FA and 1 in the draft. Then play a 3 - 4. I guess Judon would be a OLB. Kick all three DL guys inside for a 4th and 1 or a goal line stand. Seems like we would have so much more flexibility. We need the beef in the trenches. Godchaux and Wise can be rotational guys. Guy and Davis can go.

I am optimistic about the young LBs, McMillan, McGrone, and Perkins with Van Noy and Bentley. Not a killers row but new younger, faster players. BB carried Perkins all year, practiced McGrone in December for a few weeks, and resign McMillan, so I am guessing the coaching staff is high on all three guys. Hightower and Collins can retire. Maybe another rotational guy emerges.

That is only 2 new guys in the front 7, and only one draft pick which I think is realistic. We need a outside CB as well, if not two depending on JC Jackson. Bryant and Williams have to go.

Not sure about OT and WR but they are needs too. Realistically we only have 4 draft picks that could play as rookies. Maybe we hit on a late round or UDFA, but we can not plan on that.

 

[jimnance]

Thanks. Maybe what I am saying is can we get two more DL, one a DT who can 2-gap and one that is the equivalent of Barmore? 1 in FA and 1 in the draft. Then play a 3 - 4. I guess Judon would be a OLB. Kick all three DL guys inside for a 4th and 1 or a goal line stand. Seems like we would have so much more flexibility. We need the beef in the trenches. Godchaux and Wise can be rotational guys. Guy and Davis can go.

I am optimistic about the young LBs, McMillan, McGrone, and Perkins with Van Noy and Bentley. Not a killers row but new younger, faster players. BB carried Perkins all year, practiced McGrone in December for a few weeks, and resign McMillan, so I am guessing the coaching staff is high on all three guys. Hightower and Collins can retire. Maybe another rotational guy emerges.

That is only 2 new guys in the front 7, and only one draft pick which I think is realistic. We need a outside CB as well, if not two depending on JC Jackson. Bryant and Williams have to go.

Not sure about OT and WR but they are needs too. Realistically we only have 4 draft picks that could play as rookies. Maybe we hit on a late round or UDFA, but we can not plan on that.

Agree 100% we need more speed at ilb. High has been a great player but not what he used to be.(who of us is?) Van Noy still does some things well but coverage is definitely not one of them and hes also long in the tooth. Like you,Im also hopeful mcgrone and mcmillan can contribute something but we'll have to wait and see.
Secondary also a priority with JC's uncertainty and possible retirement for dmac. Getting jjones back healthy will help. Phillips dugger and jjones are all studs and mills is decent as a depth guy but obviously we need either jc back or another #1 outside cb plus potentially a fs.

 

[stinkypete]

We need a run stuffing NT but we also need a DE/OLB who can consistently set the edge. In my perfect scenario, we bring Fatukasi onboard, and the Lions cut Flowers and he returns for a second act. I would feel very good about a Judon/Barmore/Fatukasi/Flowers line, with Guy and Wise as rotational players. Godchaux can be cut, he's useless.

 

[Toofy]

Completely fell apart without enough decent CBs. SloJuan needs to be cut. Mills and Jon Jones out resulted in a secondary that couldn't stop anyone. That plus giving up 200 yards rushing every couple weeks going right by Godchaux and Bentley. The PatsD carried this team all year via smoke and mirrors. Time to upgrade the defensive personnel.

We just need one more edge rusher and faster LBs and we can also be like 49ers with a ordinary set of CBs who play intelligently.

With zero pressure on QB , no CB can stop the pass. So I would say CB is last priority. Get a NT and allow our young LB ( wino, uche,mcgrone and Perkins ) to play and we should be back in contention.

Double dip at WR and get the WR treylor Burks from Arizona / George Pickens in early round and in 4tg round draft skyy Moore .

Traylon Burks
NT from UConn
Brandon Smith
Skyy Moore
And the CB from houston

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We just need one more edge rusher and faster LBs and we can also be like 49ers with a ordinary set of CBs who play intelligently.

With zero pressure on QB , no CB can stop the pass. So I would say CB is last priority. Get a NT and allow our young LB ( wino, uche,mcgrone and Perkins ) to play and we should be back in contention.

Double dip at WR and get the WR treylor Burks from Arizona / George Pickens in early round and in 4tg round draft skyy Moore .

Traylon Burks
NT from UConn
Brandon Smith
Skyy Moore
And the CB from houston

Draft a WR from Arizona early? I think we already tried that. Can you imagine if we tried that again?

 

[Toofy]

Draft a WR from Arizona early? I think we already tried that. Can you imagine if we tried that again?

my bad.. its arkansas razorback not arizona .. no more arizona ...

 

[Ring 6]

I've ranted about this before but we need to move Wino to OLB and get another edge guy. I think once he learned the ropes Wino would be a great OLB, and it would expand his role in the defense.

If you have to play to a player's talents or his skills play to his talents. Wino's a born OLB. he's got the athleticism to move to linebacker easily enough and he's simply not getting it done consistently on the edge.

That is where he has been playing. Olb and edge are the same position. A DE or OLB in our system is exactly the same guy and what you call him is irrelevant. They play on the edge. Winovich has always played on the edge he has never played a 34 DE role.

 

[upstater1]

Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up but we're evaluating the D-line so I might as well mention it here but Ted Johnson and Bedard say there is inside information that the D players in the front 7 were out of sync with the coaches at the end of the year, and that there was a total disconnect. Both Bedard and Johnson say it was a problem with both Steve B. and Jerod Mayo. But given Mayo's credibility as a former captain, I can't see anyone disrespecting him, so it leaves me thinking that Ted and Bedard believe the guys up front are not believers in Steve Belichick.

I tend to give Ted some credibility in saying what he said just because of the way he laid it out. He didn't necessarily say it was a broken relationship that could never be prepared, but rather there was a lack of faith that prevented them from elevating after they became the #1 seed in the late middle part of the season.

 

[jdlboot14]

Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up but we're evaluating the D-line so I might as well mention it here but Ted Johnson and Bedard say there is inside information that the D players in the front 7 were out of sync with the coaches at the end of the year, and that there was a total disconnect. Both Bedard and Johnson say it was a problem with both Steve B. and Jerod Mayo. But given Mayo's credibility as a former captain, I can't see anyone disrespecting him, so it leaves me thinking that Ted and Bedard believe the guys up front are not believers in Steve Belichick.

I tend to give Ted some credibility in saying what he said just because of the way he laid it out. He didn't necessarily say it was a broken relationship that could never be prepared, but rather there was a lack of faith that prevented them from elevating after they became the #1 seed in the late middle part of the season.

There has to be something to this whole idea. And something may have come to a head during the bye week? But, for Mayo to be so eager to get out of dodge, I wonder if he sees what we all wonder - that Stevie Boy isn't ready but is being handed things over his head? As I've said, a big part of this offseason is declaring a clear DC (preferably one that is experienced) that the players believe in.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up but we're evaluating the D-line so I might as well mention it here but Ted Johnson and Bedard say there is inside information that the D players in the front 7 were out of sync with the coaches at the end of the year, and that there was a total disconnect. Both Bedard and Johnson say it was a problem with both Steve B. and Jerod Mayo. But given Mayo's credibility as a former captain, I can't see anyone disrespecting him, so it leaves me thinking that Ted and Bedard believe the guys up front are not believers in Steve Belichick.

I tend to give Ted some credibility in saying what he said just because of the way he laid it out. He didn't necessarily say it was a broken relationship that could never be prepared, but rather there was a lack of faith that prevented them from elevating after they became the #1 seed in the late middle part of the season.

These stories are always a bunch of crap.
I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Ring 6]

There has to be something to this whole idea. And something may have come to a head during the bye week? But, for Mayo to be so eager to get out of dodge, I wonder if he sees what we all wonder - that Stevie Boy isn't ready but is being handed things over his head? As I've said, a big part of this offseason is declaring a clear DC (preferably one that is experienced) that the players believe in.

Mayo is getting head coach interviews. That isn’t “eager to get out of dodge”.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up but we're evaluating the D-line so I might as well mention it here but Ted Johnson and Bedard say there is inside information that the D players in the front 7 were out of sync with the coaches at the end of the year, and that there was a total disconnect. Both Bedard and Johnson say it was a problem with both Steve B. and Jerod Mayo. But given Mayo's credibility as a former captain, I can't see anyone disrespecting him, so it leaves me thinking that Ted and Bedard believe the guys up front are not believers in Steve Belichick.

I tend to give Ted some credibility in saying what he said just because of the way he laid it out. He didn't necessarily say it was a broken relationship that could never be prepared, but rather there was a lack of faith that prevented them from elevating after they became the #1 seed in the late middle part of the season.

Ted Johnson has an axe to grind with BB. He will always be finding conspiracy stories related to Bill. Bedard has to pay his mortgage with BSJ so he will pump things up to gain subscriptions. There are better, more honest reporters to listen to.

Our DL sucked because we were over matched talent wise. Barmore kept getting better and performing because he has talent. Were the coaches yelling at the guys that sucked? For the DL that would be most of the guys.

 

[jimnance]

There has to be something to this whole idea. And something may have come to a head during the bye week? But, for Mayo to be so eager to get out of dodge, I wonder if he sees what we all wonder - that Stevie Boy isn't ready but is being handed things over his head? As I've said, a big part of this offseason is declaring a clear DC (preferably one that is experienced) that the players believe in.

I take anything Ted Johnson says about
the Pats with many grains of salt as he doesn't like BB...and Mayo is not eager to leave the Pats- by all reports he's close to BB. He wants to move up the coaching ranks. As most coaches in his position would.
But what you wrote about needing a clearcut DC is probably true.
Rob Ninkovich is saying this is what the defense needs..that you need one guy as the leader and a committee of coaches doesn't work and doesn't instill confidence in the players.
Adrian Phillips said in interview that things changed after the bye. He daid he felt everyone was physically ready but not mentally prepared. Phillips us a standup guy and one of our best D players so his words have value. To me the lack of mental preparedness could well have something to do with a lack of a DC.
Problem was last year there really wasnt anyone ready to be DC. Now- maybe Mayo if he isnt blown away by another teams offer. Flores would be ideal but a real longshot. Hard to turn down a HC deal to return as DC.
Obviously BB knows this so I expect we will have a DC even if he isnt publicly named as one. Thats what happened with Flores. He was the clearcut DC. There was no uncertainty of who led the defense. Thats what seems to be needed.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

There was a mock that has us taking Jordan davis . Hopefully thats a legit possibility , ive been hearing top 15

 

[borg]

Joe Burrow just started a "Fix the Trenches" thread at BunglesFans.com

 

[WhatJustHappened]

What happened to our OL when Steven Neal got put out of commission...TWICE.?
I'LL let you look it up.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

BTW, People say how bad Bill is...Steven Neal was a fkn monster, and he was a RAW WRESTLER!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

We just need one more edge rusher and faster LBs and we can also be like 49ers with a ordinary set of CBs who play intelligently.

With zero pressure on QB , no CB can stop the pass. So I would say CB is last priority. Get a NT and allow our young LB ( wino, uche,mcgrone and Perkins ) to play and we should be back in contention.

Double dip at WR and get the WR treylor Burks from Arizona / George Pickens in early round and in 4tg round draft skyy Moore .

Traylon Burks
NT from UConn
Brandon Smith
Skyy Moore
And the CB from houston

Mentioned this a bunch and not trying to kill people's hopes but Pickens will never be a Patriot. He's his "daddy's son" in that he's a mental case just like pops. Who had on & off the field problems most of his career.

In one week Pickens got into with multiple players and a coach from his own team. A few days later squirted water on an opposing player during a game. He's a mental case and Bill definitely isn't picking him up to "fix him" at this stage of the game.

I called Burks (Arkansas) AK Browncalf in summer time bc he's a cross between AJ Brown and DK. Josh Gordon is also a good comp imo. Quiet no nonsense country boy. I went over him in my thread but him and Wilson are like the only guys I'd take in round one with the possible exception of J Williams.

Marcus Jones? Love his juice, he has real explosiveness and speed but he's a smurf listed at 5'8"/180 so I wouldn't be surprised if he comes in slightly smaller? Another red flag is his inconsistent tackling and ability to jam at the line. Versatile in that he'll play ST but think he has a uphill battle. I know he's big into music as well.

Another LB I've been mentioning is Beavers from Cinci. He's our type for sure.

 

[Brotherblues]

Maybe this isn't the place to bring this up but we're evaluating the D-line so I might as well mention it here but Ted Johnson and Bedard say there is inside information that the D players in the front 7 were out of sync with the coaches at the end of the year, and that there was a total disconnect. Both Bedard and Johnson say it was a problem with both Steve B. and Jerod Mayo. But given Mayo's credibility as a former captain, I can't see anyone disrespecting him, so it leaves me thinking that Ted and Bedard believe the guys up front are not believers in Steve Belichick.

I tend to give Ted some credibility in saying what he said just because of the way he laid it out. He didn't necessarily say it was a broken relationship that could never be prepared, but rather there was a lack of faith that prevented them from elevating after they became the #1 seed in the late middle part of the season.

Do keep in mind Ted hates BB with serious passion