Fix our DEFENSE: You're the Coach!

[Kontradiction]

The Pats need a win this week so iapatsfan can fade back into obscurity.

 

[luuked]

Maybe start drafting LBs like the year is 2018 and not 2001?

They drafted the highest rated rookie LB so far this season who just went on IR. Anyone else they could have gotten in the first round has been rated worse. The point here is not that they got a steal or an amazing pick (this we wont know until into year 1 or 2) but that none of the other "higher drafted picks" would have provided any substantial improvement over Bentley so far this season.

In other words people would have *****ed and whined anyway.

 

[Kontradiction]

They drafted the highest rated rookie LB so far this season who just went on IR. Anyone else they could have gotten in the first round has been rated worse. The point here is not that they got a steal or an amazing pick (this we wont know until into year 1 or 2) but that none of the other "higher drafted picks" would have provided any substantial improvement over Bentley so far this season.

In other words people would have *****ed and whined anyway.

I’m not only talking about this year. And yes, you do need big, lumbering types. Particularly at the Mike. Bentley is fine. But in 2018, in the NFL, in a wide open passing league, you need a Sam or a Will that can run. How many of those do the Patriots have?

Oh, and hint: it ain’t Chung.

 

[luuked]

But in 2018, in the NFL, in a wide open passing league, you need a Sam or a Will that can run. How many of those do the Patriots have?

I guess this is where BB disagreed and rather rolled out his schematic experiments with multiple safeties or let CBs take care of that. And as long as the interior DL was stout enough we were one of the best teams out of nickel against the run. There is a reason why they were looking hard for the "star" DB by drafting safeties (too) early.

It all comes down to the (interior) DL from my pov. If they can stop bleeding on every damn play then maybe the rest of the defensive unit can do its job. If not then this season will be over rather soon.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is nothing they can do. Their defense is built to defend offenses of 2001, not 2018. Tbey have no proven talent outside of Gilmore and Flowers. The rest have never shown anything or are slowing down.

High quality post here. Troll.

 

[Kontradiction]

I guess this is where BB disagreed and rather rolled out his schematic experiments with multiple safeties or let CBs take care of that. And as long as the interior DL was stout enough we were one of the best teams out of nickel against the run. There is a reason why they were looking hard for the "star" DB by drafting safeties (too) early.

It all comes down to the (interior) DL from my pov. If they can stop bleeding on every damn play then maybe the rest of the defensive unit can do its job. If not then this season will be over rather soon.

No doubt it starts with the interior DL but you don’t want a safety or converted corner effectively playing LB on every or even most downs. They don’t have the sand in their asses to shed blocks when blockers get to the next level. Teams would just run right at them all the time. Put another way - there’s a reason Bill drafted Collins in the first place and still had Chung playing close to the LoS in 2014, 2015, and early 2016. You need those types of LBs in the NFL in 2018 because it gives you the versatility required to take on offenses in a wide open passing game and it gives you the speed to get to the edge when the offense stretches the D East-West before the ball carrier gets into the secondary. Bill will no doubt look for that player again going forward. He knows what’s required. He just either didn’t like any of those types in the last two drafts or had other players rated higher, for whatever reason.

 

[Kontradiction]

High quality post here. Troll.

Notice he’s all over the place here now but you didn’t hear a word from him prior to the Jags loss? Wonder why that is.

 

[luuked]

No doubt it starts with the interior DL but you don’t want a safety or converted corner effectively playing LB on every or even most downs. They don’t have the sand in their asses to shed blocks when blockers get to the next level.

Yes but that is exactly the dilemma right there. You want someone that is athletic enough to cover in space but then is also stout enough to not be literally run over. And you correctly bring up Collins. But how many "college proven" players that are similarly athletic do you get each year ? You either pay the price to move up the board into the teens, get someone with red flags or take a shot at unproven guys. They are the same rare breed as true blocking/receiving TEs.

You need those types of LBs in the NFL in 2018 because it gives you the versatility required to take on offenses in a wide open passing game and it gives you the speed to get to the edge when the offense stretches the D East-West before the ball carrier gets into the secondary. Bill will no doubt look for that player again going forward. He knows what’s required. He just either didn’t like any of those types in the last two drafts or had other players rated higher, for whatever reason.

I agree that ideally you want that kind of player and that most probably BB didn't see any players that would have been a fit. And as the pragmatist that he is it looks like he tried putting an additional DB in who can at least run and maybe slow down / funnel those mismatches into an area where there is help.

On some level football is an optimization problem. You will always need to give up some things to be more efficient against other things. The goal is not to be perfect and shut other teams out but to make them score fewer points than you think your offense can.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yes but that is exactly the dilemma right there. You want someone that is athletic enough to cover in space but then is also stout enough to not be literally run over. And you correctly bring up Collins. But how many "college proven" players that are similarly athletic do you get each year ? You either pay the price to move up the board into the teens, get someone with red flags or take a shot at unproven guys. They are the same rare breed as true blocking/receiving TEs.



I agree that ideally you want that kind of player and that most probably BB didn't see any players that would have been a fit. And as the pragmatist that he is it looks like he tried putting an additional DB in who can at least run and maybe slow down / funnel those mismatches into an area where there is help.

On some level football is an optimization problem. You will always need to give up some things to be more efficient against other things. The goal is not to be perfect and shut other teams out but to make them score fewer points than you think your offense can.

I won’t push this much further because honestly it sounds like you understand the point that I’m putting across a little better now. I’ll just say that I don’t have problems with them drafting guys with some red flags. They need to in order to secure good talent sometimes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But you need ideally 1-2 backers that can get downhill and violently hit the gap on inside runs and you need 1 guy that has the speed to get East-West. The NFL is a league now where offenses have put a premium on stretching the field that way. Look at all the teams with the Jet sweep built into their playbooks. The Patriots have the former but not the latter. Again, just as I did in 2012 after the AFCCG loss, I expect BB to look to address that going forward. Especially if that lack of athleticism plays a big hand in costing the team another postseason.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Notice he’s all over the place here now but you didn’t hear a word from him prior to the Jags loss? Wonder why that is.

I've never understood it. People actually taking time out of their lives to visit a fan board and bust the chops of the actual fans? I can see doing it after a loss once or twice but hundreds of posts?

That is the act of a complete and total loser.

 

[Chasing greatness]

I was listening to pfw yesterday and heard that deone buchanon and another lb have been warming the benches for Arizona. Wondering if we kick the tires on one or both. Buchanon is in a contact year so he would be on the cheap for this year maybe he moves into a more permanent roster spot next year if he flourishes here.

I heard the reasoning why he has fallen out of favor has been primarily because he doesn't fit the new defensive scheme

 

[patriot1136]

I saw the headline that Cyrus Jones has been working out with the safeties. I wonder if maybe he can be effective there. Does that mean J-Mac plays more at CB with Eric Rowe being hurt?

 

[Kontradiction]

I saw the headline that Cyrus Jones has been working out with the safeties. I wonder if maybe he can be effective there. Does that mean J-Mac plays more at CB with Eric Rowe being hurt?

God, I hope not. If you think Rowe has been bad, just wait until you get a load of J-Mac at corner in man.

 

[Love The Drake]

I was listening to pfw yesterday and heard that deone buchanon and another lb have been warming the benches for Arizona. Wondering if we kick the tires on one or both. Buchanon is in a contact year so he would be on the cheap for this year maybe he moves into a more permanent roster spot next year if he flourishes here.

I heard the reasoning why he has fallen out of favor has been primarily because he doesn't fit the new defensive scheme

I would entertain that

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

We need to play better. We need to coach better. Need better execution. Need to gameplan better. Its a long season. Alway have room for improvement. Need to tackle better. Stop the run. Stop the pass. Limit 3rd down conversions. Tighten up in the red zone. Just gotta keep working hard and improve.

Thanks for stopping by, Bill

 

[RobertWeathers]

Check his post history. 90% of his posts are in the political forum or non-football. No posts at all during 2 superbowl runs either.

He has been trolling this place for years


State of NE


Tom Brady is costing this team

OMG. What a toad.

I shouldn't talk with my 41k posts but at least I'm not coming here and bashing the team and trolling the fans.

 

[Sciz]

I was listening to pfw yesterday and heard that deone buchanon and another lb have been warming the benches for Arizona. Wondering if we kick the tires on one or both. Buchanon is in a contact year so he would be on the cheap for this year maybe he moves into a more permanent roster spot next year if he flourishes here.

I heard the reasoning why he has fallen out of favor has been primarily because he doesn't fit the new defensive scheme

Bucannon’s salary is about $8.7 million, which means a 9-week rental is still $4.6 million. Reddick is cheap ($750k this year, then $1.7 and $2.3 million in 2019 and 2020), but you don’t really see teams give up on mid first round picks after 1¼ seasons. I think they’d rather just keep him than trade him for a late round pick, even if that’s what he’s actually worth right now.

 

[Ring 6]

I guess this is where BB disagreed and rather rolled out his schematic experiments with multiple safeties or let CBs take care of that. And as long as the interior DL was stout enough we were one of the best teams out of nickel against the run. There is a reason why they were looking hard for the "star" DB by drafting safeties (too) early.

It all comes down to the (interior) DL from my pov. If they can stop bleeding on every damn play then maybe the rest of the defensive unit can do its job. If not then this season will be over rather soon.

The game is changing. The hardest teams to defend are essentially throwing 5 WRs out there between 3 true WR, a TE that is just a big wr and a rb that could be a wr. In fact we started it.
You can’t defend that with a typical 43 defense. If you go small at lb to pretend they can cover like a db, you sacrifice the run D. If you go big at LB you sacrifice coverage. The league is now essentially nickel base. So the problem becomes when you remove a dL or lb for a 5th db, if you also are small at lb, AND you are smaller on the dL because you want to rush the passer, you are susceptible to the run and the running qb, which makes play action and rpo more effective.
You cannot reasonably expect to stop that type of a group of weapons with a zone. You have to play man and every defense in the league has mismatches against good offenses. If you blitz every team is capable of getting the ball out before the blitz can get there and now you are throwing against 5.
The Vikings are theoretically one of the best defenses in the nfl and they got lit up and embarrassed by Jared freaking Goff. They got torched by a rookie QB in his first start with a team that doesn’t have weapons primarily because if they covered the receivers he took off and ran.
The rule changes as well innovations are making it impossible for defenses to consistently defend good offenses. 38-35 games from teams considered good on defense are becoming common.
There are 2 ways for a defense to succeed, either take excessive risk and hope you get a big play , or play safe and force the offense into a mistake.

As far as the Patriots I’m really not that concerned by the first 3 games. In fact I see reason for encouragement. And that reason is that if you look closely at the first 3 games, Belichick is experimenting. He is using duffrent alignment, different schemes and putting players on different roles.

To me the respond to the kc and Philly games last year was we need to create something new to defend these kind of offenses. We are in the process of testing concepts and testing players in them.
That may sound scary, but given Belichicks track record I am confident he will devise a new and innovative scheme.

The front 6 is evolving. The roles and situational usage are changing. The secondary scheme is evolving.
We are 3/16 through what I see as a project to develop this unit into one that will be equipped to deal with the best offenses by January.
Part of what we are seeing is winning individual battles is being emphasized (and exposed) because the key to an effective scheme is knowing where those individual battles are must likely to be won. Putting players on an island in September is part of finding out what you can Expect from them in January.

I expect to see gradual and steady improvement from the defense (which is normal for this team anyway) and I expect when we hit stride at the end of the season and into the post season you will see innovative schemes and success.

 

[Kontradiction]

The game is changing. The hardest teams to defend are essentially throwing 5 WRs out there between 3 true WR, a TE that is just a big wr and a rb that could be a wr. In fact we started it.
You can’t defend that with a typical 43 defense. If you go small at lb to pretend they can cover like a db, you sacrifice the run D. If you go big at LB you sacrifice coverage. The league is now essentially nickel base. So the problem becomes when you remove a dL or lb for a 5th db, if you also are small at lb, AND you are smaller on the dL because you want to rush the passer, you are susceptible to the run and the running qb, which makes play action and rpo more effective.
You cannot reasonably expect to stop that type of a group of weapons with a zone. You have to play man and every defense in the league has mismatches against good offenses. If you blitz every team is capable of getting the ball out before the blitz can get there and now you are throwing against 5.
The Vikings are theoretically one of the best defenses in the nfl and they got lit up and embarrassed by Jared freaking Goff. They got torched by a rookie QB in his first start with a team that doesn’t have weapons primarily because if they covered the receivers he took off and ran.
The rule changes as well innovations are making it impossible for defenses to consistently defend good offenses. 38-35 games from teams considered good on defense are becoming common.
There are 2 ways for a defense to succeed, either take excessive risk and hope you get a big play , or play safe and force the offense into a mistake.

As far as the Patriots I’m really not that concerned by the first 3 games. In fact I see reason for encouragement. And that reason is that if you look closely at the first 3 games, Belichick is experimenting. He is using duffrent alignment, different schemes and putting players on different roles.

To me the respond to the kc and Philly games last year was we need to create something new to defend these kind of offenses. We are in the process of testing concepts and testing players in them.
That may sound scary, but given Belichicks track record I am confident he will devise a new and innovative scheme.

The front 6 is evolving. The roles and situational usage are changing. The secondary scheme is evolving.
We are 3/16 through what I see as a project to develop this unit into one that will be equipped to deal with the best offenses by January.
Part of what we are seeing is winning individual battles is being emphasized (and exposed) because the key to an effective scheme is knowing where those individual battles are must likely to be won. Putting players on an island in September is part of finding out what you can Expect from them in January.

I expect to see gradual and steady improvement from the defense (which is normal for this team anyway) and I expect when we hit stride at the end of the season and into the post season you will see innovative schemes and success.

And yet, the most statistically dominant defenses in the league (such as the Jaguars) have multiple LBs can that can run. LBs that can run =/= LBs that can't stop the run. You're trying to make a correlation that will not hold up.

 

[Jangles]

Cut every defensive player, substitute them with traffic cones. Trade for Bell and whatever elite WR’s we can. Hope to have the ball last and score every drive