Joey007
Pro Bowl Player
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.Every year they say he is in decline and every year he gives MVP type season. the man is like the finest wine. if brett favre could play till he was 40 in a somewhat high level i dont see TFB not doing that considering the fact that he is WAY better than favre.
#2. His downfield accuracy. Don't site me 65 yard pass plays with 53 yards after the catch. Over 25 yards in the air (scrimmage) to yard line it's caught on his accuracy has become not average, but poor.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Brady's deep stats are just fine. They've fallen off a bit recently (due to lack of a deep thread since Moss), but career long? They are fine. Even just his deep stats from last year were on par with both Manning's and Rodgers's.
Tom Brady was among league's worst in 'bad passes' last season | masslive.com
I wasn't addressing his entire career, but the obvious decline of the past few years as being indicative of what he's going to do from hereon:
2011 season:
ProFootballFocus.com:
Passes of 20 or more yards
Left: 7-for-20, 232 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (75.8 QB Rating)
Middle: 9-for-33, 300 yards, 4 TDs, 3 INTs (66.7)
Right: 7-for-15, 214 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs (132.6)
Passes of 10-19 yards
Left: 21-for-47, 351 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs (84.6)
Middle: 63-for-89, 1,298 yards, 14 TDs, 7 INTs (120)
Right: 17-for-26, 324 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT (105.3)
Passes of 0-9 yards
Left: 80-for-102, 754 yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs (120.3)
Middle: 176-for-226, 1,784 yards, 11 TDs, 2 INTs (112.1)
Right: 47-for-66, 415 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT (86.4)
Look at the disparity between those numbers. Brady’s deep numbers were abysmal last season, and most his production came in the middle of the field where Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez live. That makes it safe to assume that most of Brady’s bad passes came on deep balls, where he was 23-for-68 (33 percent) last season.
This isn't anything new. In 2009, he was 18-for-69 (26 percent) on such passes, and 18-for-49 (36 percent) in 2010.
======================================
Tom Brady's missing deep ball - AFC East Blog - ESPN
The deep ball has been increasingly missing with Brady as he's gotten older. Since 2011, he's overthrown 12 of 19 attempts of 30 yards or more, which is the highest percentage (63.2) in the league, according to ESPN Stats & Information.
In addition, Brady completed just 50.5 percent of passes of 15 yards or more last season. Brady is still great at reading defenses and making the short and intermediate passes. But age and wear and tear is starting to create holes in Brady's deep passing game.
#########################################
Some of this decline might be due to bad deep options (I didn't see any coming in this off season either), and the shoulder/scope problems - but those issues are going to get worse, not better with age. We're talking effective deep passing, not excuses.
Tom Brady was among league's worst in 'bad passes' last season | masslive.com
I wasn't addressing his entire career, but the obvious decline of the past few years as being indicative of what he's going to do from hereon:
2011 season:
ProFootballFocus.com:
Passes of 20 or more yards
Left: 7-for-20, 232 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT (75.8 QB Rating)
Middle: 9-for-33, 300 yards, 4 TDs, 3 INTs (66.7)
Right: 7-for-15, 214 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs (132.6)
Passes of 10-19 yards
Left: 21-for-47, 351 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs (84.6)
Middle: 63-for-89, 1,298 yards, 14 TDs, 7 INTs (120)
Right: 17-for-26, 324 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT (105.3)
Passes of 0-9 yards
Left: 80-for-102, 754 yards, 7 TDs, 0 INTs (120.3)
Middle: 176-for-226, 1,784 yards, 11 TDs, 2 INTs (112.1)
Right: 47-for-66, 415 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT (86.4)
Look at the disparity between those numbers. Brady’s deep numbers were abysmal last season, and most his production came in the middle of the field where Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez live. That makes it safe to assume that most of Brady’s bad passes came on deep balls, where he was 23-for-68 (33 percent) last season.
This isn't anything new. In 2009, he was 18-for-69 (26 percent) on such passes, and 18-for-49 (36 percent) in 2010.
======================================
Tom Brady's missing deep ball - AFC East Blog - ESPN
The deep ball has been increasingly missing with Brady as he's gotten older. Since 2011, he's overthrown 12 of 19 attempts of 30 yards or more, which is the highest percentage (63.2) in the league, according to ESPN Stats & Information.
In addition, Brady completed just 50.5 percent of passes of 15 yards or more last season. Brady is still great at reading defenses and making the short and intermediate passes. But age and wear and tear is starting to create holes in Brady's deep passing game.
#########################################
Some of this decline might be due to bad deep options (I didn't see any coming in this off season either), and the shoulder/scope problems - but those issues are going to get worse, not better with age. We're talking effective deep passing, not excuses.
Brady in the postseason since 2004.
10 vs the Jets
Brady struggled the whole game.
Thats the bottom line.
Of course he is. For those of us who are 35+, think of yourself at 25 and yourself at 35. Nature's a beeyatch, right? As would have to be the case, Brady continues to be a hard worker/"lifelong learner," but it is what it is.
I've been a Pats fan a long time now, and I don't want this to be happening. But it is.
Upside: As others said earlier, he had a long way to fall -- from (arguably) the best ever (and I think that argument's much stronger with 1 more ring,) to one of the best in the league. It's still a ways before thinking anybody else will give you the best chance to win (although -- ack! -- that can happen fast.)
So - still crazy good. Still a non-issue, because we ain't doing any better any time soon. You ride that train until you're sure you're at the end of the line -- and we're nowhere near the "cut bait" moment.
But should we be doing things to look past Brady? Of course we should, and it looks like we are: shore up the defense, the running game, the tight ends, things like that. Meanwhile keep providing TFB targets (and it's not like that doesn't include the backs and TEs.)
It's been a magical 12 years thus far, and I'd love there to be another magical 5 or even 7 or 8... but we don't know. It might be another 2. And of course 2007 ain't coming back. So everybody forget that.
I'm looking for an Elway SB run at the end to bookend the Aikmen-like run at the beginning... I think that sort of adds up to a Montana, once you factor in the insane stat seasons to make up for the "never lost a SB" thing. You know, in bar arguments.
So for right now, among the best. Not at his peak. Booo hooooooo.
As for Brady, even if you buy into the PFF stuff, it's pretty much what you'd have expected:
In 2009, Brady was coming back from injury, Moss was almost strictly a 10 yard + threat, the team had no WR3, Watson had fallen out of favor and Baker was a stiff, so TB's numbers would be expected to be down.
In 2010, Gronkandez arrived, giving better outlets at TE and taking pressure of WWW. The numbers would be expected to be much better than 2009's.
In 2011, Gronkandez ruled again, along with Welker, so the numbers should have been up there again, and they were.
In 2012, Gronkandez was a comparative bust, and Welker was all Brady had, so it's not surprising that the numbers dipped (There's more to it, like some trainwreck moments for Thomas etc..., but that's where I'd start).
First it PFF and therefore useless.
Second, are you seriously telling me you don't realize every QBs success rate declines the farther downfield they throw?
CHFF among all football related publications is the among the first that banged the drum for Brady:
In 2005, CHFF proclaimed Brady to be > Manning (a unusual/strange concept to most at the time), followed by Byrnes piece in 2010 picked up by SI:
Brady vs. Manning: Complete & Unabridged, Vol. IIProclaimed the greatest cold weather QB of all time in 2010 (Jan & Dec):
Stats say Patriots' Tom Brady better than Colts' Peyton Manning - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com
There is no doubt that among serious fans of the NFL, that these pro Brady pieces had a massive positive effect on the debate surrounding Brady.
Then in Feb 2012, this piece:
By Scott Kacsmar
Cold, Hard Football Facts Comeback-ologist
We should probably drop that G.O.A.T. argument now.
What if we told you there was a quarterback in the last seven years that won two league MVP awards, won 78.4% of his regular season games, and had a 101.8 passer rating with a 203:63 TD-to-INT ratio? He led three of the 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history in that span.
Then what if we told you that same quarterback in the postseason had a 7-6 record (.538), 0-2 in the Super Bowl, lost two home playoff games by 26 points and had an 87.1 passer rating with a 27:17 TD-to-INT ratio? Finally, in those three historically high-scoring seasons, he lost in the playoffs by scoring only 14, 21 and 17 points (the 14 and 17 represent season-lows).
That is not a fictional quarterback at all. That is Tom Brady from 2005 to 2011.
Known as a “clutch winner” since early in his career, Brady won three Super Bowls and his first 10 playoff starts. But things have gone much differently since the last Super Bowl win, which is now eight seasons ago.
No longer has Brady been able to consistently pull out playoff wins, or even perform admirably in these games as he’s increased his regular season standards to much loftier levels.
Brady had a very uneven game in Super Bowl XLVI. With high expectations, he got off to as bad of a start as any quarterback ever has in the Super Bowl, helping the Giants register a safety on his first drop back with an intentional grounding in the end zone penalty.
But then Brady warmed up and would eventually complete a Super Bowl-record 16 straight passes. At one point, he was 20/23 with two passes batted at the line, and the intentional grounding.
That also means Brady finished the game 7/18 with an interception in the rest of the second half. They weren’t all bad passes, as a few were dropped; most notably a difficult catch Wes Welker failed to pull in late in the game. It doesn’t help when Rob Gronkowski is maybe 50% of his usual self.
For all the talk about Brady’s ability to take over a game with New England’s potent no-huddle offense, Brady only used it on ten plays, which just so happened to come during their two touchdown drives.
But this game also exposed the flaws that still exist in Brady’s game after all these years.
First, it’s the fact that he’s more susceptible to pressure getting to him in the pocket and making his level of play deteriorate more than usual. The Giants didn’t always get much pressure, but the few times they did, it was usually very successful in throwing Brady off his game.
The problem Brady has here is his lack of mobility to extend plays. When the Giants pressured Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith in the previous games, those quarterbacks rushed for 66 and 42 yards, respectively. They could move well enough to create positive plays for their teams. Brady doesn’t have the same ability, and in this game, he never scrambled once.
Then there are the tight throws into coverage. We saw Eli Manning make several of these in the game, including the biggest play: 38 yards to Manningham. They don’t all have to be deep balls, as Manning also gunned an 8-yard pass in to Victor Cruz in the fourth quarter in a tight window.
These are the types of throws that need to be made some times to have success. The Patriots do an incredible job of spreading the field with five good options to throw to, and no team does a better job of creating mismatches and getting receivers wide open.
But every quarterback is going to have plays where things don’t work, and they have to find that tight window to throw into, and Brady has not done a good enough job at that.
Chad Ochocinco had the longest gain of the night for New England; a mere 21 yards. In Brady’s five Super Bowls, his longest pass plays of the game have been 23 (Rams), 52 (Panthers), 27 (Eagles), 19 (Giants 2007), and 21 (Giants 2011) yards.
Brady has thrown 9 TD passes in his five Super Bowls. The distances on those plays are 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, and 12 yards. The last came Sunday night to Aaron Hernandez.
In the two Super Bowls against the Giants, Brady is 0/13 with an interception on passes thrown 20+ yards. The Patriots rely on yards after the catch to get explosive plays, which isn’t always easy to do. Sometimes you just have to sling it.
Getting explosive plays makes scoring points easier, and it can help offset some of the ill effects of having awful starting field position like the Patriots did in this game (average drive was at the 16.1 which is even worse than the 2009 Colts in Super Bowl XLIV).
The 1st and 10th highest scoring teams in NFL history should be able to score more than 14-17 points against what are two of the worst statistical defenses to ever win a Super Bowl. But that’s what has happened in these two New England losses to the Giants. If Brady's not going to scramble and he's not going to make coverage throws, then he's just making it easier on the defense to defend him and his offense.
Brady should go down as the best short-ball passer in NFL history, but until he starts delivering the tougher throws, he’ll remain idolizing the likes of Joe Montana as the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.
Because he's not it.
Scott Kacsmar is a football researcher/writer who has contributed large quantities of data to Pro-Football-Reference.com, including the only standardized database of fourth quarter comebacks and game-winning drives. He is currently not welcomed in Denver, New England, Green Bay, and San Diego. You can send any questions or comments to Scott at [email protected] and you can follow him on Twitter at @CaptainComeback.
Obsessed much? Sounds like Brady boned your (you fill in the blank.)CHFF among all football related publications is the among the first that banged the drum for Brady:
In 2005, CHFF proclaimed Brady to be > Manning (a unusual/strange concept to most at the time), followed by Byrnes piece in 2010 picked up by SI:
Brady vs. Manning: Complete & Unabridged, Vol. IIProclaimed the greatest cold weather QB of all time in 2010 (Jan & Dec):
Stats say Patriots' Tom Brady better than Colts' Peyton Manning - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com
There is no doubt that among serious fans of the NFL, that these pro Brady pieces had a massive positive effect on the debate surrounding Brady.
Then in Feb 2012, this piece:
By Scott Kacsmar
Cold, Hard Football Facts Comeback-ologist
We should probably drop that G.O.A.T. argument now.
What if we told you there was a quarterback in the last seven years that won two league MVP awards, won 78.4% of his regular season games, and had a 101.8 passer rating with a 203:63 TD-to-INT ratio? He led three of the 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history in that span.
Then what if we told you that same quarterback in the postseason had a 7-6 record (.538), 0-2 in the Super Bowl, lost two home playoff games by 26 points and had an 87.1 passer rating with a 27:17 TD-to-INT ratio? Finally, in those three historically high-scoring seasons, he lost in the playoffs by scoring only 14, 21 and 17 points (the 14 and 17 represent season-lows).
That is not a fictional quarterback at all. That is Tom Brady from 2005 to 2011.
Known as a “clutch winner” since early in his career, Brady won three Super Bowls and his first 10 playoff starts. But things have gone much differently since the last Super Bowl win, which is now eight seasons ago.
No longer has Brady been able to consistently pull out playoff wins, or even perform admirably in these games as he’s increased his regular season standards to much loftier levels.
Brady had a very uneven game in Super Bowl XLVI. With high expectations, he got off to as bad of a start as any quarterback ever has in the Super Bowl, helping the Giants register a safety on his first drop back with an intentional grounding in the end zone penalty.
But then Brady warmed up and would eventually complete a Super Bowl-record 16 straight passes. At one point, he was 20/23 with two passes batted at the line, and the intentional grounding.
That also means Brady finished the game 7/18 with an interception in the rest of the second half. They weren’t all bad passes, as a few were dropped; most notably a difficult catch Wes Welker failed to pull in late in the game. It doesn’t help when Rob Gronkowski is maybe 50% of his usual self.
For all the talk about Brady’s ability to take over a game with New England’s potent no-huddle offense, Brady only used it on ten plays, which just so happened to come during their two touchdown drives.
But this game also exposed the flaws that still exist in Brady’s game after all these years.
First, it’s the fact that he’s more susceptible to pressure getting to him in the pocket and making his level of play deteriorate more than usual. The Giants didn’t always get much pressure, but the few times they did, it was usually very successful in throwing Brady off his game.
The problem Brady has here is his lack of mobility to extend plays. When the Giants pressured Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith in the previous games, those quarterbacks rushed for 66 and 42 yards, respectively. They could move well enough to create positive plays for their teams. Brady doesn’t have the same ability, and in this game, he never scrambled once.
Then there are the tight throws into coverage. We saw Eli Manning make several of these in the game, including the biggest play: 38 yards to Manningham. They don’t all have to be deep balls, as Manning also gunned an 8-yard pass in to Victor Cruz in the fourth quarter in a tight window.
These are the types of throws that need to be made some times to have success. The Patriots do an incredible job of spreading the field with five good options to throw to, and no team does a better job of creating mismatches and getting receivers wide open.
But every quarterback is going to have plays where things don’t work, and they have to find that tight window to throw into, and Brady has not done a good enough job at that.
Chad Ochocinco had the longest gain of the night for New England; a mere 21 yards. In Brady’s five Super Bowls, his longest pass plays of the game have been 23 (Rams), 52 (Panthers), 27 (Eagles), 19 (Giants 2007), and 21 (Giants 2011) yards.
Brady has thrown 9 TD passes in his five Super Bowls. The distances on those plays are 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, and 12 yards. The last came Sunday night to Aaron Hernandez.
In the two Super Bowls against the Giants, Brady is 0/13 with an interception on passes thrown 20+ yards. The Patriots rely on yards after the catch to get explosive plays, which isn’t always easy to do. Sometimes you just have to sling it.
Getting explosive plays makes scoring points easier, and it can help offset some of the ill effects of having awful starting field position like the Patriots did in this game (average drive was at the 16.1 which is even worse than the 2009 Colts in Super Bowl XLIV).
The 1st and 10th highest scoring teams in NFL history should be able to score more than 14-17 points against what are two of the worst statistical defenses to ever win a Super Bowl. But that’s what has happened in these two New England losses to the Giants. If Brady's not going to scramble and he's not going to make coverage throws, then he's just making it easier on the defense to defend him and his offense.
Brady should go down as the best short-ball passer in NFL history, but until he starts delivering the tougher throws, he’ll remain idolizing the likes of Joe Montana as the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.
Because he's not it.
Scott Kacsmar is a football researcher/writer who has contributed large quantities of data to Pro-Football-Reference.com, including the only standardized database of fourth quarter comebacks and game-winning drives. He is currently not welcomed in Denver, New England, Green Bay, and San Diego. You can send any questions or comments to Scott at [email protected] and you can follow him on Twitter at @CaptainComeback.
Yes among other things.Compared to what, chicken bones?
What a stupid question.
Brady's downfield game is the least impressive part of his skill set, assuming we are not talking running the ball. BB has designed the passing game to maximize completion percentage, but, on those occasions when they have to go deeper to try and prove they are a threat, or when they are behind late, Brady isn't very good at it. Are you trying to tell me you haven't noticed it? Really?
CHFF among all football related publications is the among the first that banged the drum for Brady:
In 2005, CHFF proclaimed Brady to be > Manning (a unusual/strange concept to most at the time), followed by Byrnes piece in 2010 picked up by SI:
Brady vs. Manning: Complete & Unabridged, Vol. IIProclaimed the greatest cold weather QB of all time in 2010 (Jan & Dec):
Stats say Patriots' Tom Brady better than Colts' Peyton Manning - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com
There is no doubt that among serious fans of the NFL, that these pro Brady pieces had a massive positive effect on the debate surrounding Brady.
Then in Feb 2012, this piece:
By Scott Kacsmar
Cold, Hard Football Facts Comeback-ologist
We should probably drop that G.O.A.T. argument now.
What if we told you there was a quarterback in the last seven years that won two league MVP awards, won 78.4% of his regular season games, and had a 101.8 passer rating with a 203:63 TD-to-INT ratio? He led three of the 10 highest scoring teams in NFL history in that span.
Then what if we told you that same quarterback in the postseason had a 7-6 record (.538), 0-2 in the Super Bowl, lost two home playoff games by 26 points and had an 87.1 passer rating with a 27:17 TD-to-INT ratio? Finally, in those three historically high-scoring seasons, he lost in the playoffs by scoring only 14, 21 and 17 points (the 14 and 17 represent season-lows).
That is not a fictional quarterback at all. That is Tom Brady from 2005 to 2011.
Known as a “clutch winner” since early in his career, Brady won three Super Bowls and his first 10 playoff starts. But things have gone much differently since the last Super Bowl win, which is now eight seasons ago.
No longer has Brady been able to consistently pull out playoff wins, or even perform admirably in these games as he’s increased his regular season standards to much loftier levels.
Brady had a very uneven game in Super Bowl XLVI. With high expectations, he got off to as bad of a start as any quarterback ever has in the Super Bowl, helping the Giants register a safety on his first drop back with an intentional grounding in the end zone penalty.
But then Brady warmed up and would eventually complete a Super Bowl-record 16 straight passes. At one point, he was 20/23 with two passes batted at the line, and the intentional grounding.
That also means Brady finished the game 7/18 with an interception in the rest of the second half. They weren’t all bad passes, as a few were dropped; most notably a difficult catch Wes Welker failed to pull in late in the game. It doesn’t help when Rob Gronkowski is maybe 50% of his usual self.
For all the talk about Brady’s ability to take over a game with New England’s potent no-huddle offense, Brady only used it on ten plays, which just so happened to come during their two touchdown drives.
But this game also exposed the flaws that still exist in Brady’s game after all these years.
First, it’s the fact that he’s more susceptible to pressure getting to him in the pocket and making his level of play deteriorate more than usual. The Giants didn’t always get much pressure, but the few times they did, it was usually very successful in throwing Brady off his game.
The problem Brady has here is his lack of mobility to extend plays. When the Giants pressured Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith in the previous games, those quarterbacks rushed for 66 and 42 yards, respectively. They could move well enough to create positive plays for their teams. Brady doesn’t have the same ability, and in this game, he never scrambled once.
Then there are the tight throws into coverage. We saw Eli Manning make several of these in the game, including the biggest play: 38 yards to Manningham. They don’t all have to be deep balls, as Manning also gunned an 8-yard pass in to Victor Cruz in the fourth quarter in a tight window.
These are the types of throws that need to be made some times to have success. The Patriots do an incredible job of spreading the field with five good options to throw to, and no team does a better job of creating mismatches and getting receivers wide open.
But every quarterback is going to have plays where things don’t work, and they have to find that tight window to throw into, and Brady has not done a good enough job at that.
Chad Ochocinco had the longest gain of the night for New England; a mere 21 yards. In Brady’s five Super Bowls, his longest pass plays of the game have been 23 (Rams), 52 (Panthers), 27 (Eagles), 19 (Giants 2007), and 21 (Giants 2011) yards.
Brady has thrown 9 TD passes in his five Super Bowls. The distances on those plays are 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, and 12 yards. The last came Sunday night to Aaron Hernandez.
In the two Super Bowls against the Giants, Brady is 0/13 with an interception on passes thrown 20+ yards. The Patriots rely on yards after the catch to get explosive plays, which isn’t always easy to do. Sometimes you just have to sling it.
Getting explosive plays makes scoring points easier, and it can help offset some of the ill effects of having awful starting field position like the Patriots did in this game (average drive was at the 16.1 which is even worse than the 2009 Colts in Super Bowl XLIV).
The 1st and 10th highest scoring teams in NFL history should be able to score more than 14-17 points against what are two of the worst statistical defenses to ever win a Super Bowl. But that’s what has happened in these two New England losses to the Giants. If Brady's not going to scramble and he's not going to make coverage throws, then he's just making it easier on the defense to defend him and his offense.
Brady should go down as the best short-ball passer in NFL history, but until he starts delivering the tougher throws, he’ll remain idolizing the likes of Joe Montana as the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.
Because he's not it.
Scott Kacsmar is a football researcher/writer who has contributed large quantities of data to Pro-Football-Reference.com, including the only standardized database of fourth quarter comebacks and game-winning drives. He is currently not welcomed in Denver, New England, Green Bay, and San Diego. You can send any questions or comments to Scott at [email protected] and you can follow him on Twitter at @CaptainComeback.
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