Patriots Rumor ESPN hitpiece on Patriots (Rift with Brady/Belichick/Kraft) - Merged

[FirstAndGoal]

This guy is a long time hater. He's also the guy who wrote this
Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

He writes speculation pieces...he takes rumors and weaves fantasy stories.

 

[maineman209]

I know this is Kraft's side of the story. But no way he says anything that would exacerbate the situation.

So my biggest take away is that it's interesting that BB is seeking Kraft's opinion on a Jimmy trade. Because the media would have you believe BB would quit if Kraft meddled with Brady. How dare the owner have a say on the people he employs. We'll actually BB checks with him regarding the back up QB so obviously he knows Kraft will have input on Brady.

Story over.

I think that a lot of folks have at least a subliminal impression of BB-the-Genius as being a loner who works out all the details and the hundreds of variables involved in every decision inside his own head and then arbitrarily executes those decisions without discussing them with anyone first, even as a matter of courtesy.

Kraft's comments, including the one about BB checking with him before executing the JG trade with the Niners, indicates to me that BB doesn't really operate exclusively on his own.

It seems to me that there likely were relatively non-acrimonious discussions and disagreements among BB, Caserio, Bob and Jonathan, Don Yee, possibly McD and even Brady and Garoppolo about the situation, and that none of the participants were at all unaware of the various considerations and variables, including cap constraints and so forth.

I'm guessing that, by the summer, pretty much everyone knew how it was ultimately going to have to go and the principals had already (more or less calmly) discussed the basic parameters of what would be an acceptable deal. By the Monday before the trade deadline, BB had come up with a deal that they could execute right away, and was running it by Bob as a matter of resepct and courtesy, if nothing else. Maybe Bob was "taken aback" because perhaps he still thought that they might have to wait until the end of the season and wasn't expecting an acceptable deal to materialize that soon.

I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened, or that it wasn't an emotional thing for those involved, but something like this much more closely reflects the reality that I've lived in the corporate world than the middle-school soap opera that Wickersham describes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Was higher on Bisquick on the Pats but now with many starts albeit under adverse circumstances, at best he has a QB2 ceiling.

I think BB saw the same thing. Love the kid, though.

I was worried about JAGs playing health because of his style (NOT physique) but he has exceeded QB1 expectations for 2017. 2018 will be a telling year with a full training camp acclimation vs DCs having lots of game film.

Jimmy in 2018 should be a 95 rating, 4k yds, 64% comp ~25TD 15int guy. For a 2nd year that is not bad at all.

 

[TommyD4207]

I think BB saw the same thing. Love the kid, though.



Jimmy in 2018 should be a 95 rating, 4k yds, 64% comp ~25TD 15int guy. For a 2nd year that is not bad at all.

Of course, Garoppolo will be entering his 5th season next year.

 

[Ring 6]

I think that a lot of folks have at least a subliminal impression of BB-the-Genius as being a loner who works out all the details and the hundreds of variables involved in every decision inside his own head and then arbitrarily executes those decisions without discussing them with anyone first, even as a matter of courtesy.

Despite every piece of evidence available saying otherwise.

Kraft's comments, including the one about BB checking with him before executing the JG trade with the Niners, indicates to me that BB doesn't really operate exclusively on his own.

He never has.

It seems to me that there likely were relatively non-acrimonious discussions and disagreements among BB, Caserio, Bob and Jonathan, Don Yee, possibly McD and even Brady and Garoppolo about the situation, and that none of the participants were at all unaware of the various considerations and variables, including cap constraints and so forth.

I'm guessing that, by the summer, pretty much everyone knew how it was ultimately going to have to go and the principals had already (more or less calmly) discussed the basic parameters of what would be an acceptable deal. By the Monday before the trade deadline, BB had come up with a deal that they could execute right away, and was running it by Bob as a matter of resepct and courtesy, if nothing else. Maybe Bob was "taken aback" because perhaps he still thought that they might have to wait until the end of the season and wasn't expecting an acceptable deal to materialize that soon.

I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened, or that it wasn't an emotional thing for those involved, but something like this much more closely reflects the reality that I've lived in the corporate world than the middle-school soap opera that Wickersham describes.

That is reasonable.
Kraft has said the last time he met about jag was in June. Clearly they had a plan, as they always do. It seems obvious that the only variable in the plan was whether it was feasible to tag and trade which turned out not to be. It would appear kraft was taken aback because he had heard nothing for 4 months and figured that meant nothing was in the works.

 

[maineman209]

Logic trumps innuendo and unnamed sources.

Unfortunately, for most of ESPN's rapidly-dwindling followers, logic is out of reach and "innuendo" is a New Jersey style insult.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think that a lot of folks have at least a subliminal impression of BB-the-Genius as being a loner who works out all the details and the hundreds of variables involved in every decision inside his own head and then arbitrarily executes those decisions without discussing them with anyone first, even as a matter of courtesy.

Kraft's comments, including the one about BB checking with him before executing the JG trade with the Niners, indicates to me that BB doesn't really operate exclusively on his own.

It seems to me that there likely were relatively non-acrimonious discussions and disagreements among BB, Caserio, Bob and Jonathan, Don Yee, possibly McD and even Brady and Garoppolo about the situation, and that none of the participants were at all unaware of the various considerations and variables, including cap constraints and so forth.

I'm guessing that, by the summer, pretty much everyone knew how it was ultimately going to have to go and the principals had already (more or less calmly) discussed the basic parameters of what would be an acceptable deal. By the Monday before the trade deadline, BB had come up with a deal that they could execute right away, and was running it by Bob as a matter of resepct and courtesy, if nothing else. Maybe Bob was "taken aback" because perhaps he still thought that they might have to wait until the end of the season and wasn't expecting an acceptable deal to materialize that soon.

I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened, or that it wasn't an emotional thing for those involved, but something like this much more closely reflects the reality that I've lived in the corporate world than the middle-school soap opera that Wickersham describes.

That’s a pretty fair assessment of what might have taken place. My point is that the decision is Belichick’s, not Kraft’s. If Kraft had been making these decisions this team would suck. They would be the Cowboys.

 

[n1997y]

Be nice. You should be inviting him to Foxborough for tea and polonium hammers...I mean crumpets.

Fixed it.

If you don't get it google "Alexander Litvinenko", it's a KGB insider reference that should appeal to the Joker.

 

[n1997y]

Agree all around.
We shouldn't dump on people who sometimes get annoyed with the Group Think and challenge it in a thoughtful manner. I don't think any of us want a Board where adherence to a Party Line is the highest value.

It might be an improvement if adherence to a "party line" of civility were in fact the highest value.

If nothing else, could save the mods some work with less need to wield the ban hammer to quiet trolls.

 

[maineman209]

... the Pats dealt Brissett, then dealt Garoppolo and have Phillip Dorset and a 2nd rounder to show for it ...

Brissett was dealt at the end of Camp after it was clear that Edelman and Mitchell wouldn't be available for the season. The Pats needed another WR, but had rapidly-dwindling cap space with which to pay another one and had only five 2018 draft picks to trade (one of which was a projected 4th-round comp pick). I'm pretty sure that Caserio and the pro-scouting department had a "draft-board" type reference of all the potential WRs who might be suitable and available, plus several different contingency plans for just such a scenario. Brissett for Dorsett was apparently the first one they tried.

Also, by that time, pretty much everyone in the building knew how the JG-Brady thing had to work out, given the cap situation. Well, everyone except Wickersham's "sources", apparently.

The JG-to-Niners trade brought the Pats a 2018 second that was always going to be relatively high in the round. It's likely to be the #41, as it turns out, but that's still 56 spots (nearly two rounds) higher than the best they'd have gotten for a comp pick if they'd had to let JG walk in the spring. They also got Hoyer in the deal - not nearly as good a backup as JG would have been (though that wasn't in the cards), but certainly better than Brissett or anyone they could have signed off the street.

There may well be some "dark days" ahead for the Pats in terms of future W-L records, but the Brissett for Dorsett and JG for a 2nd+Hoyer we probably about the best they were realistically going to be able to do under the circumstances, and certainly not the proximate "cause" of those dark days.

 

[Ring 6]

My thoughts this spring and a link to what has become an interesting hindsight thread


AndyJohnsonPatsFans.com VeteranPatsFans.com Supporter
?




I see no possible way that you could get more for garapollo next year than his year. The patriots will be over a barrel. They can't keep a backup at 24 million. I don't think any team in their right mind would trade for him without an agreement for a long term deal in place. But why would Jimmy agree to that? He can refuse and end up a free agent where he can write his own deal. Not to mention if I'm jimmy I do not want my new team to give up a ton to get me when I can just play hardball, get released and let my future team keep its picks.

We may literally get nothing at all for him if we do not trade him this year.

As to the other side if your argument it's silly to say you won't trade a player because you think other teams should be willing to offer more. The market is what it is. The decision isn't what is offered vs what you hoped for. It's what is offered vs one year of service as a backup QB and potentially getting nothing at all.

• Agree x 3
• Disagree x 1
• List

This is why the Patriots won't trade Jimmy G in 2017

 

[maineman209]

Does it have to be stated? BB called Kraft. Kraft thought about it spoke to his son about and got back to BB.

It could be that BB unexpectedly came up with a deal by the trade deadline that was within the general parameters that all involved parties had previously agreed would make for an acceptable deal and was double-checking with Bob, as in "Well, we have this in hand right now - a 2nd and Hoyer for Jimmy. Are you okay with us taking it?"

 

[luuked]

I think that a lot of folks have at least a subliminal impression of BB-the-Genius as being a loner who works out all the details and the hundreds of variables involved in every decision inside his own head and then arbitrarily executes those decisions without discussing them with anyone first, even as a matter of courtesy.

Kraft's comments, including the one about BB checking with him before executing the JG trade with the Niners, indicates to me that BB doesn't really operate exclusively on his own.

It seems to me that there likely were relatively non-acrimonious discussions and disagreements among BB, Caserio, Bob and Jonathan, Don Yee, possibly McD and even Brady and Garoppolo about the situation, and that none of the participants were at all unaware of the various considerations and variables, including cap constraints and so forth.

I'm guessing that, by the summer, pretty much everyone knew how it was ultimately going to have to go and the principals had already (more or less calmly) discussed the basic parameters of what would be an acceptable deal. By the Monday before the trade deadline, BB had come up with a deal that they could execute right away, and was running it by Bob as a matter of resepct and courtesy, if nothing else. Maybe Bob was "taken aback" because perhaps he still thought that they might have to wait until the end of the season and wasn't expecting an acceptable deal to materialize that soon.

I'm not saying that this is exactly what happened, or that it wasn't an emotional thing for those involved, but something like this much more closely reflects the reality that I've lived in the corporate world than the middle-school soap opera that Wickersham describes.

After listening to Currans newest podcast where he emphasized the secretive nature of BB and how this leads to staffers maybe speculating on things I dont think I agree with your view.

If there was a clear path planned out then Kraft wouldn't have been taken aback by BB suddenly calling that he has a trade ready. And there is no way anyone can tell me that all parties were too shortsighted to discuss the trade deadline and how it is the last checkpoint they have to move JG. And yet Kraft made it sound like what they decided in summer was to ride it out until after the season.

Either something big changed between the summer meeting and the trade deadline, or BB just didn't communicate his intentions to trade JG outside a very small circle.

 

[NEPats1]

FLORIO ISN'T MESSING AROUND ANYMORE

Tom Brady doesn’t run from competition; he thrives on it

Tom Brady doesn’t run from competition; he thrives on it
Posted by Mike Florio on January 6, 2018, 3:46 PM EST

Getty Images

One of the running themes in the ESPN article regarding the alleged Peyton Place at Patriot Place comes from the notion that long-time starting quarterback Tom Brady felt threatened by the lingering presence of backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo.

As one source with knowledge of the situation told PFT, this image of Brady runs counter to 18 years of NFL experience. In his generation as a pro football player, Brady hasn’t run from competition. He has thrived on it.

Competition has been the constant fuel for his career. When he arrived in New England, the goal was to compete with every other quarterback on the depth chart. When he became the starter after franchise quarterback Drew Bledsoe suffered a serious internal injury in 2001, Brady continued to focus on competing with anyone and everyone the Patriots would add.

Remember former Colts G.M. Bill Polian’s ****amamie claim that he had pegged Brady as a first-round talent but didn’t draft him before the Patriots took Brady in round six because Indianapolis wasn’t in the quarterback market? The Patriots have drafted eight quarterbacks during Brady’s tenure as starter. Eight.

They took Rohan Davey in round four of the 2002 draft. The drafted Kliff Kingsbury in round six a year later. Matt Cassel arrived via round seven in 2005. Kevin O’Connell came courtesy of round three three years later. The Patriots drafted Zac Robinson in round seven in 2010. Next came Ryan Mallett in 2011’s round three, followed by Jimmy Garoppolo in round two of the 2014 draft, and Jacoby Brissett in round three of 2016.

Through it all, Brady never complained or whined or worried or buckled. Instead, he has embraced the competition, and he has used it to get the absolutely most out of his abilities.

So if, as the ESPN article contends, “Brady has become an advocate of positive thinking” as he has gotten older, why in the world would Brady feel threatened by Garoppolo or anyone else — especially when Brady has never reacted negatively to competition in the years before becoming an “advocate of positive thinking”?

If the not-so-subtle premise that Brady wanted Garoppolo gone due to the perception that he’s a threat to Brady’s ongoing career with the Patriots collapses, the primary basis for any dysfunction or disharmony about Brady, coach Bill Belichick, and owner Robert Kraft evaporates. Which means that, even if every off-the-record source told ESPN the God’s-honest truth about every aspect of the story, Brady’s history coupled with basic common sense makes the whole thing fall apart.

 

[Ring 6]

Florio also rips Wickersham.

If the not-so-subtle premise that Brady wanted Garoppolo gone due to the perception that he’s a threat to Brady’s ongoing career with the Patriots collapses, the primary basis for any dysfunction or disharmony about Brady, coach Bill Belichick, and owner Robert Kraft evaporates. Which means that, even if every off-the-record source told ESPN the God’s-honest truth about every aspect of the story, Brady’s history coupled with basic common sense makes the whole thing fall apart.

Tom Brady doesn’t run from competition; he thrives on it

 

[n1997y]

It could be that BB unexpectedly came up with a deal by the trade deadline that was within the general parameters that all involved parties had previously agreed would make for an acceptable deal and was double-checking with Bob, as in "Well, we have this in hand right now - a 2nd and Hoyer for Jimmy. Are you okay with us taking it?"

Hoyer being a part of the package has been very much overlooked. The trade should be looked at as a swap of QBs with a high second round pick thrown in to balance the scales between a benchwarmer with a few starts showing possible superstar potential and a journeyman backup QB with borderline starter potential.

Which is why not shopping to the Browns is irrelevant because they had nothing to solve the Pats' need for a backup QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Hoyer being a part of the package has been very much overlooked. The trade should be looked at as a swap of QBs with a high second round pick thrown in to balance the scales between a benchwarmer with a few starts showing possible superstar potential and a journeyman backup QB with borderline starter potential.

Which is why not shopping to the Browns is irrelevant because they had nothing to solve the Pats' need for a backup QB.

Great point. If they cannot get hoyer they need to bring in a different backup without experience in the system and dedicate a lot of time an energy to bringing him up to speed in case he is needed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course, Garoppolo will be entering his 5th season next year.

I mean as a starter.

 

[archstanton543]

Maybe Bob was "taken aback" because perhaps he still thought that they might have to wait until the end of the season and wasn't expecting an acceptable deal to materialize that soon.

At the end of the season Jimmy would have been a free agent. The Pats couldn't trade someone they don't have the rights to. The trade deadline was the absolute last chance they had to get any return for him (other than a league-awarded 3rd round pick).

 

[RobertWeathers]

At the end of the season Jimmy would have been a free agent. The Pats couldn't trade someone they don't have the rights to. The trade deadline was the absolute last chance they had to get any return for him (other than a league-awarded 3rd round pick).

....or they tag him for $24m and deal him then in which , like in Oct their leverage is compromised