Edelmania

[efin98]

You presume that Slater made the team as a kick returner or even as a pass receiver.

Slater was our top gunner last year. I believed that he played on all six special team units.

I would not be surprised if Ventrone and Aiken make it over Slater, but that is not because Slater was not an important contributer last year.

If he can't win the spot as the kick returner then they won't keep him around...he's versatile but I don't think he's that versatile for them to keep over someone at DB or OL.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If he can't win the spot as the kick returner then they won't keep him around...he's versatile but I don't think he's that versatile for them to keep over someone at DB or OL.

Don't be so sure; last year, the Patriots kept at least SEVEN guys who were ST-only: Gostkowski, Hanson, Ventrone, and Slater, and the now departed Izzo, Paxton, and Washington.

 

[mgteich]

SPECIALISTS
then: Gostkowski, Paxton and Hanson
now: Gostkowski,Hodel or Ingram, Hanson

SO THEN THERE ARE FOUR MORE SPECIAL TEAMERS
then: Slater, Ventrone, Aiken, Washington (Izzo was on IR), Redd (Alexander was in IR)
now: Slater, Ventrone, Aiken, Redd, Tank Williams, Alexander
last spot could even be: Spann or Richardson

So, we have eight players competing for these last four positions. The positions will likely we listed on the roster depth chart as #5 OLB #4 ILB, #5 WR, #6 WR as they were last year.
===========================

These four positions could be filled by developmental players or special teamers. Could Edleman take one of those spots? Could he beat out Lewis for the #4 receiver spot? Neither seems likely to me. Appleby seems more likely than Edleman, but even he seems to be a long shot.

SPECIALISTS

Don't be so sure; last year, the Patriots kept at least SEVEN guys who were ST-only: Gostkowski, Hanson, Ventrone, and Slater, and the now departed Izzo, Hanson, and Washington.

 

[DaBruinz]

He would have to beat out Lewis because the 5th, 6th and 7th WR spots (if they exist) need to be reserved for players who are top special teamers. We really don't need more than four receivers who actually play receiver.

Last year we had only three wide receivers who weren't primarily special teamers. Aiken was the only one of the rest to catch a significant number of passes, which is fine since Watson and Faulk are really next in line as a receiver choice after the top 3 receivers. This year our #4 is Lewis, a receiver and a backup returner. This seems to be a role that Edelman could aspire to.

We do have folks coming back to compete for the #5, #6 and #7 WR/ST positions if they exist: Slater, Ventrone and Aiken. I can't see Edelman being more valuable to Seeley than those guys.

Yet BB went out and made it a point to draft Edelman.

People say that Lewis is a "back-up returner" but he's got about as much experience returning kicks as Edelman. In fact, Edelman has returned more punts than Lewis has kicks.

I am not saying that Edelman is a lock, but neither is Ventrone or Aiken for that matter.

 

[DaBruinz]

Don't be so sure; last year, the Patriots kept at least SEVEN guys who were ST-only: Gostkowski, Hanson, Ventrone, and Slater, and the now departed Izzo, Hanson, and Washington.

You mentioned Hanson twice. I think you meant Paxton.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You mentioned Hanson twice. I think you meant Paxton.

Yeah, I did.

 

[mgteich]

Belichick "made a point" to draft a returner in the third round: Tate. He drafted Edleman in the 7th; not exacty a huge vote of confiedence.

OPPORTUNITY ONE - WIDE RECEIVER / KICK RETURNER
I agree with all your comments about Lewis. As I indicated, I think the best chance for Edleman is to beat out Lewis for the #4 WR position.

OPPORTUNITY TWO - SPECIAL TEAMS (OTHER THAN KR)
The competition is much stiffer for the special teams positions. I agree that Aiken and Ventrone are not locks. As I posted earlier today,
=========================================
SO THEN THERE ARE FOUR MORE SPECIAL TEAMERS
(often called a #4 ILB, #5 OLB, #5 WR, #6 WR)

then: Slater, Ventrone, Washington, Redd (no ILB because both Izzo and Alexander were injured)

now: Slater, Ventrone, Aiken, Redd, Tank Williams, Alexander
last spot could even be: Spann or Richardson
======================================

Yet BB went out and made it a point to draft Edelman.

People say that Lewis is a "back-up returner" but he's got about as much experience returning kicks as Edelman. In fact, Edelman has returned more punts than Lewis has kicks.

I am not saying that Edelman is a lock, but neither is Ventrone or Aiken for that matter.

 

[sg14]

I can see how it will be hard for Edleman to make this team,,

Can also see him become someone else's 'Welker' in a year or so,,,

I think Lewis is here for good, to stretch the field, give Randy some more room. I see Galloway as a short term plan, and if Edleman shows promise, that's where he makes this team.

As if Lewis is the Randy back-up plan,
Galloway/Edleman are the Welker back-up plan.
Galloway is short term because of age, injury factor,cost,not a multi tasker,

 

[AzPatsFan]

Yet BB went out and made it a point to draft Edelman.

People say that Lewis is a "back-up returner" but he's got about as much experience returning kicks as Edelman. In fact, Edelman has returned more punts than Lewis has kicks.

I am not saying that Edelman is a lock, but neither is Ventrone or Aiken for that matter.

When Izzo started to get old and his ST stats started to be eclipsed, BB went shopping for a next generation ST leader. He signed the Bills ST captain in Akins. Surprisingly Akins even produced some at WR, too. But he inherits the ST command position, IMHO. Note that BB did not even try to bring Larry back this off season.

 

[captain stone]

Bill must have - or should have - drafted Edelman to be his Wildcat.

So it seems to me that, in order to perform his Wildcat duties, Edelman needs to show that he deserves to take snaps with the Regular Offense by becoming at least an adequate RB and/or WR.

I don't believe that he is in direct competition with Lewis, who is quite clearly the #4 WR. It's the people vying for the #5 & 6 spots who are his competition: Aiken, Slater, Ventrone, Nunn & Ortiz. Tate is likely headed to the PUP list, and that will give Edelman more time to showcase his return abilities, such as they are.

Also keep in mind now that Paris Lenon has signed, the need for a ST "maven" has been reduced by one; therefore, the aforementioned WRs, plus DBs Spann, Tank, McGowan & Richardson, plus LBs Alexander, TBC & Vinnie C might all have to prove - by a little more than before - that they can play a position, too. And whosoever amoung them can better prove that, will have the upper hand for a permanent place on the 53.

In the end, I would have drafted RB Rashad Jennings, or OL Gerald Cadogan, or WR Kevin Ogletree, or TE Dan Gronkowski, or DEs Michael Bennett, Pannel Egboh or Zach Potter, or LBs Lee Robinson or Nick Reed instead.

 

[mgteich]

Bill SHOULD have drafted Edleman to be our wildcat? Why? I agree that Edleman should NOT have been drafted as you say in your final comments. All the players you mention seem better placed for an outside chance to make the squad that a 6th or 7th round draft choice has.

I believe that Edleman's only chance to make the squad is as a kickoff returner. He will need to show that he is better than Maroney or whoever Bill has in mind to be the returner.

Bill must have - or should have - drafted Edelman to be his Wildcat.

So it seems to me that, in order to perform his Wildcat duties, Edelman needs to show that he deserves to take snaps with the Regular Offense by becoming at least an adequate RB and/or WR.

I don't believe that he is in direct competition with Lewis, who is quite clearly the #4 WR. It's the people vying for the #5 & 6 spots who are his competition: Aiken, Slater, Ventrone, Nunn & Ortiz. Tate is likely headed to the PUP list, and that will give Edelman more time to showcase his return abilities, such as they are.

Also keep in mind now that Paris Lenon has signed, the need for a ST "maven" has been reduced by one; therefore, the aforementioned WRs, plus DBs Spann, Tank, McGowan & Richardson, plus LBs Alexander, TBC & Vinnie C might all have to prove - by a little more than before - that they can play a position, too. And whosoever amoung them can better prove that, will have the upper hand for a permanent place on the 53.

In the end, I would have drafted RB Rashad Jennings, or OL Gerald Cadogan, or WR Kevin Ogletree, or TE Dan Gronkowski, or DEs Michael Bennett, Pannel Egboh or Zach Potter, or LBs Lee Robinson or Nick Reed instead.

 

[WhiZa]

I am so sick of the Wildcat. It's dead. It doesn't work anymore. It had a nice surprise factor, but teams easily caught on. Any team relying on the wildcat next year will be picking first in the draft.

 

[dryheat44]

It seems that the ongoing assumption in this debate is that there will be no injuries suffered during training camp. I'll wager a dollar that that won't be the case.

 

[captain stone]

Bill SHOULD have drafted Edleman to be our wildcat? Why? I agree that Edleman should NOT have been drafted as you say in your final comments. All the players you mention seem better placed for an outside chance to make the squad that a 6th or 7th round draft choice has.

I believe that Edleman's only chance to make the squad is as a kickoff returner. He will need to show that he is better than Maroney or whoever Bill has in mind to be the returner.

What I mean to say, is that I would not have drafted him ahead of some of the others (esp. Rashad Jennings), but because he was, Bill would be foolish not to try him as a Wildcat QB, which was basically his positiion at Kent State. I'm not sure how much success, or even experience, he's had as a KOR or PR. I do know that da Bears seemed very interested in him, and that he also visited the doofins & a couple of other teams the week before the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

I see Slater as the 53rd member of last years team.

Will there be a year 2 jump in production??

Is there a Juggs machine that does kick-offs??

How can you see Slater as the 53rd member of the team when he was dressed for 16 games??? That would make him, at worst, the 45th member.

BTW, I remember Troy Brown dropping a punt during his one game not too long ago. I can remember Welker dropping stuff as well. Why is it that a rookie makes a rookie mistake and everyone is all over him, yet they give guys like Welker and Brown a pass?

 

[mgteich]

Slater was not #45 because he was active. It is not unusual for all the special teamers to be active.

How can you see Slater as the 53rd member of the team when he was dressed for 16 games??? That would make him, at worst, the 45th member.

BTW, I remember Troy Brown dropping a punt during his one game not too long ago. I can remember Welker dropping stuff as well. Why is it that a rookie makes a rookie mistake and everyone is all over him, yet they give guys like Welker and Brown a pass?

 

[Mark Morse]

Bill SHOULD have drafted Edleman to be our wildcat? Why? I agree that Edleman should NOT have been drafted as you say in your final comments. All the players you mention seem better placed for an outside chance to make the squad that a 6th or 7th round draft choice has.

I believe that Edleman's only chance to make the squad is as a kickoff returner. He will need to show that he is better than Maroney or whoever Bill has in mind to be the returner.

I read your roster projections (very good job) and agree with most of it. I see three battles for ST positions WR group, LB group and a DB Group.

WR Group Aiken, Ventrone, Edelman
LB Group Circiu, Alexander
DB Group Richardson, Spann, Slater

I feel Redd will make the team because of his pass rushing ability. Also LB's and TE will play a bigger role on KO returns with the new rules.

WR Group Aiken played OK at WR when asked to fill in. With Lewis, he won't have to. Lewis can also return KO. Ventrone is a kamikaze on ST. He can play both S and WR adequately. Edelman is a long shot at best. Best bet is Practice Squad.

LB Group one of these guys will be filling the Larry Izzo role. Alternate would be to keep 4 TE's and have one of them in this role?

DB Group Slater played S last year in Pre-season. He was 2nd on the team in ST tackles. He return KO (not well). Richardson improved his play at DB while contributing on ST (when he was active). Spann ... I really don't see what the coaching staff sees in him.

My guess is Redd, Ventrone, Circiu, Slater

 

[mgteich]

Where did you get a spot for Redd? I think that we will carry nine linebackers. So you have 10?
OLB: Thomas, Banta-Cain, Woods, Crable
ILB: Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Lenon
ST: Ciurciu
=====================
We reasonably differ on WR/ST. I choose Aiken. You choose Ventrone.

We agree on Ciurciu as our Izzo ILB/DT.

You choose Slater as a DB, which he is aweful at. I choose Tank Williams who you don't even consider. We have nine defensive backs without this ST position.

I read your roster projections (very good job) and agree with most of it. I see three battles for ST positions WR group, LB group and a DB Group.

WR Group Aiken, Ventrone, Edelman
LB Group Circiu, Alexander
DB Group Richardson, Spann, Slater

I feel Redd will make the team because of his pass rushing ability. Also LB's and TE will play a bigger role on KO returns with the new rules.

WR Group Aiken played OK at WR when asked to fill in. With Lewis, he won't have to. Lewis can also return KO. Ventrone is a kamikaze on ST. He can play both S and WR adequately. Edelman is a long shot at best. Best bet is Practice Squad.

LB Group one of these guys will be filling the Larry Izzo role. Alternate would be to keep 4 TE's and have one of them in this role?

DB Group Slater played S last year in Pre-season. He was 2nd on the team in ST tackles. He return KO (not well). Richardson improved his play at DB while contributing on ST (when he was active). Spann ... I really don't see what the coaching staff sees in him.

My guess is Redd, Ventrone, Circiu, Slater

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

It seems that the ongoing assumption in this debate is that there will be no injuries suffered during training camp. I'll wager a dollar that that won't be the case.

It's a wonder the Mrs. puts up with your reckless gambling.

 

[State]

I am so sick of the Wildcat. It's dead. It doesn't work anymore. It had a nice surprise factor, but teams easily caught on. Any team relying on the wildcat next year will be picking first in the draft.

Yo tambien.

But Minnesota is planning on using hotshot rookie Percy Harvin to run it. The Rick Gosselin Dallas writer predicts he'll be the offensive rookie of the year.

So I wish it were dead. But until it stops working, it'll be tried. The Dolphins opened a lot of eyes using it against us. Our elderly linebacker corps last year--esp. Vrabel--weren't up to the task of tracking down Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams.