Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amendola?

[RayClay]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

you do realize that DA has missed 24 of his last 48 regular season games and he's a consistent 50-60/500-600 guy. Also did you watch the AFCG where he had 0 catches

Amendola missed 22 games in four years playing a lot otherwise while Edelman missed 16 games in the same period as mostly a special teamer with much less production.

Amendola didn't rebreak his collarbone or his elbow, so I don't know what that injury has to do with a groin tear.

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Even if everything fell right for JE, if he was not the player he is he would not have been as productive.

And I would never say differently.

If Amendola had been healthy this year and JE limited, the numbers would likely have been reversed. They had the about same target % and every other stats if you pro-rate their snap counts.

In the post that got a certain guy pissed, I said the two were mirror images of each other. They are both incredibly capable, hard-working receivers who can fill that niche well. If we were starting at a level field right now and I had to pick one, it'd be JE, but it would be close.

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

And I would never say differently.

If Amendola had been healthy this year and JE limited, the numbers would likely have been reversed. They had the about same target % and every other stats if you pro-rate their snap counts.

In the post that got a certain guy pissed, I said the two were mirror images of each other. They are both incredibly capable, hard-working receivers who can fill that niche well. If we were starting at a level field right now and I had to pick one, it'd be JE, but it would be close.

You might want to watch the games. There's a reason that Edelman got the targets because he's a better route runner and has better hands. mini-tron is more dynamic. DA is a nice receiver, he's your WR3 on good teams.

Your argument about if they were reversed DA would have had the monster year is ridiculous. You were one of those people saying that Sudfeld would just replace Hernandez. Talent and play make a difference. It might be helpful for you to re-watch the games (especially the 2nd half)

 

[Bruins29]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Your argument about if they were reversed DA would have had the monster year is ridiculous.

It was not an argument. It was a speculation. I agree with him. If DA was healthy and JE had the torn groin I am sure DA would have put up the numbers JE did if not surpass them.

A healthy DA with TB throwing him the ball is something I would be excited about. We will ever see it? Not sure...hopefully.

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

You might want to watch the games. There's a reason that Edelman got the targets because he's a better route runner and has better hands. mini-tron is more dynamic. DA is a nice receiver, he's your WR3 on good teams.

I watched all the games.

People running around with a torn groin generally don't run crisp routes - that has NEVER been a problem for Amendola before this year.

Your argument about if they were reversed DA would have had the monster year is ridiculous.

Factor out Amendola's SNAP COUNT to equal JE's (Amendola healthy/JE fighting a groin tear, then a concussion)...now pro-rate the targets/YPC/yards/tds - all of it. So much for "ridiculous."

You were one of those people saying that Sudfeld would just replace Hernandez. Talent and play make a difference. It might be helpful for you to re-watch the games (especially the 2nd half)

Where do you get that about Sudfeld? Took me a long time to even warm up to the possibility of the kid. I was hoping/praying for Ballard to return to form.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

If we don't resign him, where does Edelman go?

I was just watching NFLN and one of the analysts said something I couldn't agree with more. They were talking about Edelman's value and he said that Edelman is more valuable to the Pats than any other team in the league. Is this gonna be another Welker situation where Edelman thinks he is worth more and the only other offer he gets is from Tennessee before his agents call teams telling he has decided to lower his price?

I could see Houston because of the Billy connection, but would he want to go there with the QB situation up in the air? Ditto for the Browns, who are the other team reportedly making a play for Edelman.

I hope we can bring him back, but I have a hard time believing he will fetch more than 6 million on the open market. I hope we can bring him back on a deal that is good for both sides, maybe 5 apy and structured in a way that its not too too expensive the first year to two years so we can let the Amendola experiment run its course.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

And I would never say differently.

If Amendola had been healthy this year and JE limited, the numbers would likely have been reversed. They had the about same target % and every other stats if you pro-rate their snap counts.

In the post that got a certain guy pissed, I said the two were mirror images of each other. They are both incredibly capable, hard-working receivers who can fill that niche well. If we were starting at a level field right now and I had to pick one, it'd be JE, but it would be close.

They are not mirror images of each other at all. Amendola is a player who has been a primary target in an offense since the end of the 2009 season, Edelman is a player who played less than 16% of his team’s offensive snaps over the 3 seasons prior to 2013 and was targeted a total of 54 times during that period. Amendola has had the opportunity to start and achieve 100+ receptions, 1000+ yards in a season for 4 straight seasons (2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013) and he has not done it, whether it was due to an injury or performance on the field it still did not happen. Edelman has had 1 opportunity to achieve 100+ receptions, 1000+ yards in a season and he did it first shot, no excuses, no reasons why it did not happen, he did it.

You have no basis to believe that Amendola would achieve what Edelman did this season. The best way to project the future is to look at the past and Amendola has never done it despite having the opportunity, there is no reason to believe that is going to change. At the end of the day, Amendola had just 114 more yards than Dobson a rookie who played less snaps and suffered a more debilitating injury that kept him off the field for 4 regular season games forced him out of 2 others. Shane Vereen had 6 less catches than Amendola having played in just 8 games (one of which he left in the 2nd quarter). Rob Gronkowski had 41 less yards in 7 games (one of which he left early against Cleveland). There were players that had adversity far worse than Amendola faced who performed better than he did. Great players overcome adversity, Adrian Peterson had groin surgery last month, but he still ran for 1300 yards and 10 touchdowns in 14 games, Calvin Johnson had knee and finger surgery due to season long nagging injuries, he still put up 1500 yards and 12 touchdowns in 14 games.

If a player dresses for a game I expect him to perform, otherwise I expect that he is inactive and we put a player on the field that can perform. I do not believe that if Amendola were as limited as you and others claim Belichick would have played him, he would have signed a UFA or promoted a PS player who was capable of filling the void, just as he has always done. Belichick would not knowingly put a player capable of catching zero passes in the championship game on the field for 41/59 snaps. If you believe that you must view Belichick as desperate and unable to find a player capable of catching at least one pass on the street, I do not.

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Factor out Amendola's SNAP COUNT to equal JE's (Amendola healthy/JE fighting a groin tear, then a concussion)...now pro-rate the targets/YPC/yards/tds - all of it. So much for "ridiculous."

I hope you're joking. Edelman finished 4th in receptions in the leaghue and over the 2nd half of the year he was top 5 in receptions and yards. Not too mention he was awesome in the playoffs where DA was nonexistent.

Stop making excuses for DA. He's missed 24 regular season games over the last 48. He sat out 4 games this year. He is what he is, a nice WR3

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

NFL Trade Rumors: Danny Amendola to Baltimore Ravens?

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

NFL Trade Rumors: Danny Amendola to Baltimore Ravens?

Please let this be true.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Amendola missed 22 games in four years playing a lot otherwise while Edelman missed 16 games in the same period as mostly a special teamer with much less production.

Amendola missed 5 games as a rookie, which could have been a coach’s decision since he was a seventh round draft pick, Steve Beauharnais was active for 2 games this season if you look at his game log in 5 years you would probably think that he missed 14 games due to injury, but that was not the case.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Please let this be true.

It's every bit as true as Fitzgerald to the Patriots. Once again it is based upon the horsesh.t notion that the Patriots don't believe in Amendola and are going to release him, however the person who wrote it then says that it will only take a low round pick to get him? The Patriots aren't releasing Amendola and they aren't trading him to the Ravens.

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

It's every bit as true as Fitzgerald to the Patriots. Once again it is based upon the horsesh.t notion that the Patriots don't believe in Amendola and are going to release him, however the person who wrote it then says that it will only take a low round pick to get him? The Patriots aren't releasing Amendola and they aren't trading him to the Ravens.

If we can trade him it would be a dream come true. We can get him off the cap and make the Ravens weaker

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

If we can trade him it would be a dream come true. We can get him off the cap and make the Ravens weaker

This is too stupid too comment on.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

If we can trade him it would be a dream come true. We can get him off the cap and make the Ravens weaker

He actually does not come off the cap if we trade him from what I understand.

I do not think he would make that team weaker, I like you think Edelman is the better player but Amendola is a very solid slot receiver he just is not worth what we pay him in my opinion.

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

He actually does not come off the cap if we trade him from what I understand.

I do not think he would make that team weaker, I like you think Edelman is the better player but Amendola is a very solid slot receiver he just is not worth what we pay him in my opinion.

yes, DA is an ok slot receiver and below average outside receiver

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I hope you're joking. Edelman finished 4th in receptions in the leaghue and over the 2nd half of the year he was top 5 in receptions and yards. Not too mention he was awesome in the playoffs where DA was nonexistent.

Sorry you missed the Indy game...

Highlight: Danny Amendola 53-yard reception

Amendola averaged 25.7 per (3/77) catch in that game.
Edelman also contributed mightily in that game as the underneath guy moving the chains (6/84). Remember, Brady only completed 13 passes in the whole game.

I don't know what happened in the last game, honestly. The two Denver games were both awful for DA, which makes me believe that the game-planning was away from him...but I don't know.

Schemes matter, game-to-game. Decker got shut down in the SB, but he'll be the top FA WR this year by a wide margin.

Stop making excuses for DA. He's missed 24 regular season games over the last 48. He sat out 4 games this year. He is what he is, a nice WR3

Snap counts/yards/target %/receptions/rating

Edelman: 146 / 1,165 / 12.5% | 105 | 103.0
Amendola: 82 / 662 / 12.4% | 54 | 97.3
Dobson: 71 / 578 / 12.3% | 37 | 83.0
Thompkins: 69 / 627 / 11% | 32 | 88.2

Pro-rating Amendola snap counts:
146/82=1.78. 1.78x662=1178 yards
146/82=1.78. 1.78x54=96 receptions

I find it very reasonable to assume that if the injuries to DA had fallen to JE, with DA being healthy, their snap counts would have pretty much reversed - they're both tough-as-nails, even though they're both injury-prone. JE would have fought through the injuries DA got, as DA did.

It's just numbers.

A side note, and one that I'm sure would never be lost on a coach like BB: Amendola ALSO was the only NE receiver to post a positive BLOCKING rating with a +1.1 (Edelman was the worst on the team at -3.2). These are the invisible stats to fans, but not to coaches.

This hints to me (though I haven't the time or energy to check) that it's likely Amendola gets more snaps (%-wise) on running plays than does JE. Would make sense anyway.

Here: note 10 and 11 in the league...Advanced NFL Stats - Player Statistics by Position WPA, by the way, is Win Probability Added...this is Billy Ball for the NFL.

And yeah, he missed 24 games, including 15 in one season when he returned too quickly from an injury. Other than that year, Amendola has actually played more games than JE.

I see both of these guys as #2 WR and would be happy to have either (and happier to have both) on my team if I was an OC.

Of course, I've posted all this before, and so you'll just ignore it again (and make up some other fantasy of me loving Lavalle Hawkins or something). So I'll agree to disagree with your assessment.

Oh, and PS: If a player dresses for a game I expect him to perform, otherwise I expect that he is inactive and we put a player on the field that can perform. I do not believe that if Amendola were as limited as you and others claim Belichick would have played him, he would have signed a UFA or promoted a PS player who was capable of filling the void, just as he has always done.

Two things: per snap played, Amendola was AS EFFECTIVE as JE. So per snap played, he performed, unless you want to say that JE didn't perform.

Second: Kyle Arrington says hi.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Ironically, there was concern about an oft injured slot receiver who had a setback with a chronic injury this past season.

It wasn't Amendola.

Julian Edelman injury: Patriots WR suffers setback, questionable for training camp - SBNation.com

 

[SalemPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Sorry you missed the Indy game...

Highlight: Danny Amendola 53-yard reception

Amendola averaged 25.7 per (3/77) catch in that game.
Edelman also contributed mightily in that game as the underneath guy moving the chains (6/84). Remember, Brady only completed 13 passes in the whole game.

I don't know what happened in the last game, honestly. The two Denver games were both awful for DA, which makes me believe that the game-planning was away from him...but I don't know.

Schemes matter, game-to-game. Decker got shut down in the SB, but he'll be the top FA WR this year by a wide margin.



Snap counts/yards/target %/receptions/rating

Edelman: 146 / 1,165 / 12.5% | 105 | 103.0
Amendola: 82 / 662 / 12.4% | 54 | 97.3
Dobson: 71 / 578 / 12.3% | 37 | 83.0
Thompkins: 69 / 627 / 11% | 32 | 88.2

Pro-rating Amendola snap counts:
146/82=1.78. 1.78x662=1178 yards
146/82=1.78. 1.78x54=96 receptions

I find it very reasonable to assume that if the injuries to DA had fallen to JE, with DA being healthy, their snap counts would have pretty much reversed - they're both tough-as-nails, even though they're both injury-prone. JE would have fought through the injuries DA got, as DA did.

It's just numbers.

A side note, and one that I'm sure would never be lost on a coach like BB: Amendola ALSO was the only NE receiver to post a positive BLOCKING rating with a +1.1 (Edelman was the worst on the team at -3.2). These are the invisible stats to fans, but not to coaches.

This hints to me (though I haven't the time or energy to check) that it's likely Amendola gets more snaps (%-wise) on running plays than does JE. Would make sense anyway.

Here: note 10 and 11 in the league...Advanced NFL Stats - Player Statistics by Position WPA, by the way, is Win Probability Added...this is Billy Ball for the NFL.

And yeah, he missed 24 games, including 15 in one season when he returned too quickly from an injury. Other than that year, Amendola has actually played more games than JE.

I see both of these guys as #2 WR and would be happy to have either (and happier to have both) on my team if I was an OC.

Of course, I've posted all this before, and so you'll just ignore it again (and make up some other fantasy of me loving Lavalle Hawkins or something). So I'll agree to disagree with your assessment.

Oh, and PS: If a player dresses for a game I expect him to perform, otherwise I expect that he is inactive and we put a player on the field that can perform. I do not believe that if Amendola were as limited as you and others claim Belichick would have played him, he would have signed a UFA or promoted a PS player who was capable of filling the void, just as he has always done.

Two things: per snap played, Amendola was AS EFFECTIVE as JE. So per snap played, he performed, unless you want to say that JE didn't perform.

Second: Kyle Arrington says hi.

I'm laughing at this post. If we pro-rate the opportunities that mini-tron had to DA then DA would be amazing. Maybe if we targeted Dobson like we did Moss he would put Moss like numbers.

You need to watch the film. Edelman is a better route runner and has better hands. He's more elusive in space.

Tom Brady, the league's best QB basically went through his progressions and decided that DA was his 3rd or 4th option (and this is without Gronk). This was evidenced by 0 catches against the Broncos who couldn't cover a parked car.

Just admit, you were wrong, you though DA was going to be awesome, so did I. Unfortunately he's not that good. Sorry

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

yes, DA is an ok slot receiver and below average outside receiver

My belief is that the team attempted to give Edelman the opportunity to show that he could replace Welker during 2012, the combination of injures and him and Welker’s presence on the field and in the offense made it very difficult to assess the Edelman, so the staff was unsure. Welker left and Edelman was a free agent on crutches who they did not know if he would return, how much he would cost and if he was capable of being the player they needed, so in 2013 Amendola was more of a sure bet.

The problem was that rumors had Amendola going to the Patriots as far back as 2012 when McDaniels first signed here via trade, so teams knew that the Patriots were going to attempt to sign him and I am sure they got involved to only to drive up the asking price. This forced our hand with Welker gone a major hole we had to pay what the market was dictating for Amendola.

A perfect storm occurred, we signed Amendola for $5.7M APY suffered an injury, which opened the door for Edelman stepped in and he seized the opportunity, which took a $765K player to a rumored $6M player. The problem is what could we have done differently, roll the dice, and hope that Edelman stepped up, but remember we signed Amendola in the first two days of UFA and at that time, I would have to believe that Edelman was trying to get a better offer than we made.

In my opinion the mistake the Patriots made was far before signing Amendola, it was letting it ever get to the point where on day two of UFA they had their hand forced because they had a gaping hole in their offense. The team should have either signed Welker long-term or made more of an effort to draft a replacement like TY Hilton (who could have been draft instead of Bequette) in 2012, so the team would be able to transition smoothly.