Dwayne Allen to the moon?

[Pats2000]

Because the forum losers (and there are several) have never won anything in their lives. They always lose and they want others on their level. They are projecting their loser/negative ways here. You will notice that it is the same 6 or so posters that are never happy about anything. They look for anything to criticize about a player and never hope that they improve or add any value. They are all here when the pats are not doing well (they feed off of it) and are rarely around when things are going well. Gilmore sucks, Allen Sucks, we wont win, Kraft is cheap, BB cant draft, Soldier is a turnstyle, Dmac cant make plays, blah blah blah.....

Hey man, how do you really feel about those guys? Don't hold anything back this time.

 

[Bruins29]

Hey man, how do you really feel about those guys? Don't hold anything back this time.

I kinda like em....

 

[brdmaverick]

Because the forum losers (and there are several) have never won anything in their lives. They always lose and they want others on their level. They are projecting their loser/negative ways here. You will notice that it is the same 6 or so posters that are never happy about anything. They look for anything to criticize about a player and never hope that they improve or add any value. They are all here when the pats are not doing well (they feed off of it) and are rarely around when things are going well. Gilmore sucks, Allen Sucks, we wont win, Kraft is cheap, BB cant draft, Soldier is a turnstyle, Dmac cant make plays, blah blah blah.....

I'm sure you are referring to me considering that I'm being considered 'the bad guy' in this post for just providing some perspective.

I'm all in favor of highlighting someone's accomplishment. His touchdown catch was very good, but instead of being packaged like "Finally, Allen comes through....." or "glad to see Allen contribute" , "maybe this is the turnaround" it basically came across as " everyone who criticized Allen, how do you like them apples now?" as if to insinuate that posters would have been unjustified in their prior criticisms. After seeing the OP's follow up responses it's clear that I read too much into the phrasing but I merely just wanted to point out that his play last night didn't necessarily vindicate 8 games of ineffectiveness but is at least a good sign.

Maybe I misinterpreted more of a "I told you so" tone than I should have and maybe I didn't my point across as well as I should have, but I don't know why it makes me a loser.

 

[PatsFan2]

Brady going back to Allen in red zone after the drop is huge for allens confidence going forward, and just big for team morale..

Took him almost a half a year to figure our Offense out but Allen was a Legitimate RZ threat when he was with the Colts doubling with Coby Fleener. His Blocking was well highlighted Sunday night, the Pats should be really effective both running and passing in those Big Three TE formations in the RZ or short yardage. Allen should really be open every time especially if they call a TE delay. Glad Allen finally got off the schneid.

 

[brdmaverick]

Except for his job

Touche.....but I think you know what I mean. With Bennett back in the fold Allen moves down the depth chart and our expectations are lowered.

 

[maineman209]

I took his six targets to mean one of the following........

1.) He's creating no separation from the defense.

or

2.) Brady doesn't trust him

or

3.) Both

Develin has been around how many years now? He has seven targets so far this season with a 71% catch rate. Seven targets at this point in the season is a bit more than his average. Develin had 9 total targets in 2016 - 6 regular season and 3 in post-season (caught five).

So, would Develin's lack of targets indicate that "Brady doesn't trust him?" Or could it be that the role that he plays isn't conducive to generating a lot of targets for him? Could the same apply to Allen's role, possibly?

 

[oldrover]

They look for anything to criticize about a player and never hope that they improve or add any value. They are all here when the pats are not doing well (they feed off of it) and are rarely around when things are going well. Gilmore sucks, Allen Sucks, we wont win, Kraft is cheap, BB cant draft, Soldier is a turnstyle, Dmac cant make plays, blah blah blah.....

https://imgflip.com/gifgenerator

 

[brdmaverick]

Develin has been around how many years now? He has seven targets so far this season with a 71% catch rate. Seven targets at this point in the season is a bit more than his average. Develin had 9 total targets in 2016 - 6 regular season and 3 in post-season (caught five).

So, would Develin's lack of targets indicate that "Brady doesn't trust him?" Or could it be that the role that he plays isn't conducive to generating a lot of targets for him? Could the same apply to Allen's role, possibly?

Interesting point of discussion, but I would still say 'no'. For almost the entirety of the BB era the Pats have made a point to try to get two tight ends that are receiving threats going all the way back to Fauria/Graham, Graham/Watson, Gronk/Hernandez, and Gronk/Bennett. Sure, they might have a third tight end be a blocking specialist like Alge Crumpler or Jed Weaver (I think that was his name), but historically they've liked two tight ends to be receiving threats.

Given that history and the fact that Allen showed some promise as a receiving threat in Indy, I'm guessing he was brought in to continue to show signs of life in the receiving game (signs that weren't shown until yesterday). Plus, the fact that Bennett comes in and gets more receptions in one game than Allen has had for all year is just further indication that they want that additional threat.

 

[PatsFan2]

Develin has been around how many years now? He has seven targets so far this season with a 71% catch rate. Seven targets at this point in the season is a bit more than his average. Develin had 9 total targets in 2016 - 6 regular season and 3 in post-season (caught five).

So, would Develin's lack of targets indicate that "Brady doesn't trust him?" Or could it be that the role that he plays isn't conducive to generating a lot of targets for him? Could the same apply to Allen's role, possibly?

Speaking of the dependable James Develin with his excellent Blocking. In regards to his catching ability even if he has an opening the size of the Red Sea after catching the rock: it would still probably take Develin until June to get there he's molasses slow after the catch.

 

[DaBruinz]

Um, we were *****ing about him because he was lousy. Glad he had a good game tonight and he seems like a nice guy who is popular with teammates. Hopefully he'll continue trending upward (not on a rocket).

People like yourself were *****ing because you weren't actually paying attention to what he was doing during games. Like in Tampa where he was asked to block nearly 100% of the plays he was on because of Cannon's bad ankle.

Like how he drew coverages away from Gronkowski in several games..

Like how he's been playing on special teams.

But you'd rather just ***** because he had 1 drop on 6 targets prior to the TD pass.

 

[long distance]

ps. Hasn't been said that I've seen anywhere, but OT...Jordan Richards is playing the hybrid role pretty damned well.

Agreed. The re-watch thread managed to acknowledge that somewhat. Not enough though.

I felt I abused the welcome on Jordan Richards' solid play in “hybrid“ role . but we will get back to him despite fireworks..

 

[Bruins29]

I'm sure you are referring to me

Nope. I have a lot of respect for you.

 

[DaBruinz]

What is so bad about trying to give a little perspective to this 'I told you so' thread? Everyone is talking like he had a breakout game. The guy made one catch. If one catch qualifies as a breakout game for him (which it might) then that shows just how bad he has been if the standard is that low.

I want him to succeed just like anyone else, but it was one catch. James Develin and Philip Dorsett each had two catches last night. Should we start praise threads on them, too?

If we're going to make an "I told you so" thread it should be on Gilmore. That guy has been under scrutiny and had an impressive end to end game last night.

This is the problem with people like yourself in regards to Allen. You absolutely and totally minimize what he brings to other facets of the game.

- Allen has been a beast in run blocking. As pointed out, his blocking helped the 4th down conversion for Burkhead.

- Without Allen's crucial block on the kick-off, Lewis doesn't get a TD. He's bagged back at the Pats 25. Allen demolishes his man.

- You probably didn't notice, but Allen was running down the sideline on one of Gronk's receptions on the right side of the field, taking the safety help with him leaving Gronk 1 on 1. And it's not the first time that it's happened. Gronk's TD last week (?) saw Allen draw two defenders with him leaving Gronk with no one within 5 yards of him.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not someone who tends to watch or study blocking. I usually just follow the ball when I watch football.

I posted this exact comment in the Dwayne Allen thread and asked for people (who have watched the pats blocking) to comment on whether or not he has been an effective blocker. The majority of the responses seemed to indicate that he has been below average at that as well. I'm not saying this makes you wrong....after all, I haven't looked at it for myself, I just find it surprising given the other feedback I've received.

My concern with Allen has not actually been his hands. After all, of the 6 targets he received to this point I can think of at least 3 of them being bad passes. My bigger concern was the small target amount.

I took his six targets to mean one of the following........

1.) He's creating no separation from the defense.

or

2.) Brady doesn't trust him

or

3.) Both

With two targets in his last game it's a good sign to think that Brady hasn't just written him off completely.

Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come. With Marty back the pressure should be completely off. After all, no one is counting on Allen to really do anything anymore, so when he does it's a pleasant surprise.

Or 4) Allen is the 4th or 5th read because the Pats have Gronk, Amendola, White, Lewis, Cooks, and Burkhead ahead of him generally and the others are getting open so Brady doesn't need to look down that far.. Even if Allen happens to be open..

But I can see that you'd rather focus on negative items.

 

[Bruins29]

It is a shame that people only just players from a stat sheet. I thought that we were better than that. I thought that this was a place for fans who were students of the game and understood some nuances.

"Allen sucks" without SOME context sounds like a lot of the "Amendola sucks" crap we had to endure here for a while. Its stuff that Pink Hats say.

I am not saying Allen was lighting the world on fire but he was accomplishing things out there as some of the more astute posters have shown you. Bottom line, I think we are kinda over the Pink Hat stuff.

Save that candy-striped crap for the Wall Street wimps.

 

[Bruins29]

8 games of ineffectiveness but is at least a good sign.

And BTW the reason you are being schooled by DaBruinz is this statement above. It was 8 games of ineffectiveness according to your standards. Again, I am not saying Allen was impressive overall but he was effective at his primary task which was blocking and/or decoy. And several of TB's passes to him were not good.

You seem like someone who is willing to learn more about this stuff so there seems to be a lot of potential for you to see more of the little things and ultimately enjoy the game (and this hobby) more.

 

[PatsDeb]

People like yourself were *****ing because you weren't actually paying attention to what he was doing during games. Like in Tampa where he was asked to block nearly 100% of the plays he was on because of Cannon's bad ankle.

Like how he drew coverages away from Gronkowski in several games..

Like how he's been playing on special teams.

But you'd rather just ***** because he had 1 drop on 6 targets prior to the TD pass.

I think all but one throw to him was catchable, and he was not doing his job to be a pass catching tight end in this offense, particuluarly for the amount he's being paid. He also wasn't great at blocking in several games. Heck, Marty Bennett has 3 times as many catches as him after 8 snaps. I'm allowed to ***** about that if I want to, legitimately so. Just like you can ***** about other fans like me from your high (horse) armchair.

 

[DaBruinz]

Interesting point of discussion, but I would still say 'no'. For almost the entirety of the BB era the Pats have made a point to try to get two tight ends that are receiving threats going all the way back to Fauria/Graham, Graham/Watson, Gronk/Hernandez, and Gronk/Bennett. Sure, they might have a third tight end be a blocking specialist like Alge Crumpler or Jed Weaver (I think that was his name), but historically they've liked two tight ends to be receiving threats.

Given that history and the fact that Allen showed some promise as a receiving threat in Indy, I'm guessing he was brought in to continue to show signs of life in the receiving game (signs that weren't shown until yesterday). Plus, the fact that Bennett comes in and gets more receptions in one game than Allen has had for all year is just further indication that they want that additional threat.

You're correct that BB has tried to get 2 TE receiving threats. But it hasn't worked as well as you said. Most people would question you saying Graham/Watson as dual threats since Graham became one of the best blocking TEs the game has seen while here and didn't do a lot in the receiving game.

Most people have said it was only when BB got the Gronk/Hernandez duo that he truly got the 2 receiving TE threats he wanted. He got the Hybrid in Gronk and the almost pure receiver in Hernandez. With Bennett, it was duplicated, though they only played in 3 (?) games together..

2000 - Bjornson, Wiggins, Rutledge
2001 - Wiggins, Rutledge
2002- Fauria, Cleeland, Graham
2003 - Fauria, Graham
2004 - Fauria, Graham (Watson was IRed after 1 game)
2005 - Watson, Graham, Fauria
2006 - Watson, Graham, Thomas
2007 - Watson, Thomas (2 games), K. Brady
2008 - Watson, Thomas
2009 - Watson, Baker
2010 - Gronkowski, Hernandez, Crumpler
2011 - Gronkowski, Hernandez
2012 - Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells, Hoomanawanui
2013 - Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Mulligan
2014 - Gronkowski, Tim Wright, Hoomanawanui
2015 - Gronkowski, Scott Chandler, Michael Williams, Asante Cleveland
2016 - Gronkowski, Bennett, Lengel
2017 - Gronkowski, Allen, Hollister, Bennett.

 

[brdmaverick]

And BTW the reason you are being schooled by DaBruinz is this statement above. It was 8 games of ineffectiveness according to your standards.

Well, to be fair my standards were based on what I saw 'few targets/zero catches' and I deferred to the judgement of the Pats Forum on his blocking before taking a stance there. Perhaps they led me astray.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think all but one throw to him was catchable, and he was not doing his job to be a pass catching tight end in this offense, particuluarly for the amount he's being paid. He also wasn't great at blocking in several games. Heck, Marty Bennett has 3 times as many catches as him after 8 snaps. I'm allowed to ***** about that if I want to, legitimately so. Just like you can ***** about other fans like me from your high (horse) armchair.

Then you'd be wrong. Only 1 throw to him was "catchable" and it was a good play by the guy in coverage.. You'd know that if you read ANY of the Re-Watch threads.

Your claims about Allen's blocking are BS.

Yep. You can ***** all you want. All it does is look poorly on you. Especially when you have posters blowing you out of the water in the re-watch threads that show you just don't know wtf you are talking about.

BTW, SFBs, I'm not on any high horse. I'm just pointing out that you don't know wtf you are talking about. Sorry if you don't like facts and reality. That's your issue.