Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[SHOWTIME15]

Those Chiefs teams were consistently a very good club. I wouldn't understate them.

For sure, they played well as team. On paper, however, this year's Bucs team is miles better, especially on offense.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Both their legacies are secure. Unless say Brady pops positive for PEDs for some reason.

The narrative will be out there though. At the very least it gives fans something to talk about.

Whether we want it or not, if Bill doesn’t have another winning season without Brady, Bill would be considered to have been carried by Brady.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady's legacy is fully intact. He is 43 years old, most didn't even expect him to be able to continue to play at this age with any level of effectiveness and he has proven that wrong so far

Montana won some playoff games on the Chiefs but never won a SB, and no one ever really cares or talks about Montana's final years as a Chief when talking about his career/legacy, its just an afterthought

Manning went to a loaded Broncos that Tim Tebow was able to get to the Divisional round of the playoffs the year before they got him. He took the team just as far as Tebow did, with a loss in the divisional round

There is much more pressure on Brady to win in Tampa with that roster than there is on Belichick right now. You can argue that Brady is 43 years old blah blah blah, but he's got a loaded roster and has no excuses if he doesn't get far in the playoffs in the next couple of years. You all have been thumping your chest about him defying his age ALL YEAR, so if he gets bounced early in the playoffs there is no excuse. You can't revert back and say, "well, he's 43 years old"...

 

[RobertWeathers]

For sure, they played well as team. On paper, however, this year's Bucs team is miles better, especially on offense.

No question.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Completely. Your version of who and what Brady means to this franchise makes me question if you watched 2001 or just the highlights. I love Brady, wouldn’t want any other QB starting for my team, but to act like he came out as a win every game cuz of him star right off the bat is insane. My point is just for that year I would say Antwain Smith had more to do with making the playoffs then Tom Brady, and Belichick would have turned it around with any average plus QB cuz the TEAM he built was well coached, and believed in what he was selling. Now would they have won the Super Bowl with just any QB, no probably not, TB12 is probably the most clutch QB of all time and they needed that. It just bothers me the stats you are throwing around about Bill without Tom seem to completely discount how much Brady benefited from the well rounded, disciplined, deep teams that BB built even from his first year here.

It took everyone all year long to give Brady a chance to come through in the clutch. Brady delivered. All the talkin heads were Brady had "it".

 

[RobertWeathers]

Whether we want it or not, if Bill doesn’t have another winning season without Brady, Bill would be considered to have been carried by Brady.

By who? Felger?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

By pretty much everybody except the Bill’s fan club around here.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

By pretty much everybody except the Bill’s fan club around here.

If Brady carried Bill, which is what you want, then Bill doesn't belong in the HOF. Doubt any HOF voter is going to keep him off the first ballot. Maybe the Brady groupies will, but not those whose opinion matters most...

 

[sb1]

Whether we want it or not, if Bill doesn’t have another winning season without Brady, Bill would be considered to have been carried by Brady.

I guess then Bill better find a good QB instead of your buddy Stidham eh?

 

[sb1]

If Brady carried Bill, which is what you want, then Bill doesn't belong in the HOF. Doubt any HOF voter is going to keep him off the first ballot. Maybe the Brady groupies will, but not those whose opinion matters most...

Let’s face it Brady is most known and celebrated for wins and championships and not so much for stats, plays that make you say wow, or “most talented” or anything like that. Other QBs are in these conversations ahead of Brady.

Therefore does this mean if Brady doesn’t win another title then it’s proof he needed Bill to win his titles and without Bill he’s only another one of many QBs who has never won a thing?

I don’t think so.

It’s fair at this point to give Brady more credit for the dynasty than Bill but both of their legacies are set no matter what.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I guess then Bill better find a good QB instead of your buddy Stidham eh?

Yes he better otherwise your buddy Bill will spend a lot of time making excuses.

 

[sb1]

Yes he better otherwise your buddy Bill will spend a lot of time making excuses.

Bill better get right on it then. Bye bye Stiddy nice knowing ya.

 

[RIpats88]

I think its short sighted to look at this year and make any assumptions vs. a 20 year sample. What if brady goes one and done or never wins a super-bowl in tampa, what if Bill gets to 11 wins next year with an improved roster then is he back in the lead?

It was the combination of Bill and Brady who made the patriots what they were over 20 years. Bill doesnt win 6 super bowls without brady, but Brady also doesnt win 6 superbowls without Bill IMO. it was that combination of great QB play and great coaching that got the Pats to 9 superbowls and winning 6

the only thing this year does hopefully is dispel the stupid "brady is a system QB" nonsense people would spout to show hes not a good QB. Brady with a new team is still Brady.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Let’s face it Brady is most known and celebrated for wins and championships and not so much for stats, plays that make you say wow, or “most talented” or anything like that. Other QBs are in these conversations ahead of Brady.

Therefore does this mean if Brady doesn’t win another title then it’s proof he needed Bill to win his titles and without Bill he’s only another one of many QBs who has never won a thing?

I don’t think so.

It’s fair at this point to give Brady more credit for the dynasty than Bill but both of their legacies are set no matter what.

Definitely, even if Bill has no winning season going forward he will still be in the HOF and still considered the GOAT HC. The fact is he proved it this year because if it wasn’t for his coaching we would probably be 2-14.

i personally distinguish between Bill the HC and Bill the GM. Bill is the GOAT HC, I just think that Brady has made Bill the GM that’s all.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Bill better get right on it then. Bye bye Stiddy nice knowing ya.

As long as Cam goes with him, I’m good

I never argued that he was the next best thing, I only argued that I wanted to see him play and only because Cam sucked really really bad. Otherwise I could not have cared less.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Let’s face it Brady is most known and celebrated for wins and championships and not so much for stats, plays that make you say wow, or “most talented” or anything like that. Other QBs are in these conversations ahead of Brady.

Therefore does this mean if Brady doesn’t win another title then it’s proof he needed Bill to win his titles and without Bill he’s only another one of many QBs who has never won a thing?

I don’t think so.

It’s fair at this point to give Brady more credit for the dynasty than Bill but both of their legacies are set no matter what.

The precedent has been set by Montana, Favre, and Manning, who all succeeded in taking their second teams deep into the playoffs. Brady arguably has more talent around him than any of these QBs - Evans and Godwin, for example, are better than any receiver Manning had in Denver. If Brady gets bounced by Washington (a team that has a great pass rush btw), or fails to get far in the playoffs next couple of years, then he's the one who couldn't live up to the precedent those other QBs have set. People can't argue that Brady is playing sensational during the regular season and then if he loses in the playoffs say "well, he's 43." Doesn't work that way.

 

[The Brandon Five]

The precedent has been set by Montana, Favre, and Manning, who all succeeded in taking their second teams deep into the playoffs. Brady arguably has more talent around him than any of these QBs - Evans and Godwin, for example, are better than any receiver Manning had. If Brady gets bounced by Washington (a team that has a great pass rush btw), or fails to get far in the next couple of years, then he's the one who couldn't live up to the precedent those other QBs have set. People can't argue that Brady is playing sensational during the regular season and then if he loses in the playoffs say "well, he's 43." Doesn't work that way.

Let's pump the brakes before we put Evans and Godwin in Canton ahead of Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison.

 

[sean10mm]

Let's pump the brakes before we put Evans and Godwin in Canton ahead of Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison.

Yeah no kidding lmao

the only thing this year does hopefully is dispel the stupid "brady is a system QB" nonsense people would spout to show hes not a good QB. Brady with a new team is still Brady.

He's top 5 in yards and touchdowns this season, and his passer rating is camped out at his career average. Leaving the Patriots ~system~ didn't make him a stiff.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Let's pump the brakes before we put Evans and Godwin in Canton ahead of Jerry Rice and Marvin Harrison.

Sorry I meant the talent that surrounded Montana and Manning on KC and Denver...

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Sorry I meant the talent that surrounded Montana and Manning on KC and Denver...

In Denver in 2013, Manning had Decker, Welker, D. Thomas and J. Thomas.