David Givens

[Ring 6]

These are your words in 2 earlier posts in this thread":
"I dont know that I'd call Givens a deep threat, but he is excellent in the intermediate zones (12-18 yards) and gets good run after catch on those routes.
I just have a feeling when he hits the open market, he is going to get 'Product of the System" treatment.
Many teams put too much weight on measurables, especially at the WR postion, and the truth is by measurables there are 100 better WRs in the NFL than Givens, maybe more.
Since we don't weigh measuarables so heavily, he may get the best offer he can get from us.
Remmber he was a RFA this year, and received no interest. Anyone considering him a big contract guy would have pursued him then too, unless they see more in him a year later. I doubt that because he looks exactly the same to me as last year."

"Im not saying dont sign him.
Im saying at his position he may not be a sought after FA.
Why did Patten get that contract? Speed. He was the fastest guy on the Patriots.
Invariably teams are looking for excellent speed, or size, or quickness in a WR. They want "The athlete". Givens wont stand up that yardstick very well. Of all the positions on the field, raw skills are valued the highest at WR."

I wrote:
I could not possibly disagree with Andy more on his contentions that Givens "may get the best offer he can get from us (the Patriots) and that Givens "may not be a sought after FA".

Even though I neglected to put a quotation mark after the word us, I feel that I quote you accurately. My quotes were cut and pasted from your prior posts. IMO, "he may not be a sought after FA" is consistent with your point - "Givens isn't the type of WR that teams pay huge money for".

OK. You quoted me properly. Its hard to have the time to read through all the posts, and while clearly I said those they werent my primary point. Apologize for questioning your post.

 

[kptmorgan04]

What about PK Sam? Do you think he could be a possible replacement if we can't resign Givens? Afterall he is that possesion-type receiver.

I would hardly put trust in a guy who has hardly seen the field since being drafted. When he was drafted I was really full of hopeful expectation for him, but as of yet he hasnt done anything to fulfil his potential while he is still very young.

 

[ilduce06410]

pk sam will turn 23 in february 06.
he worked out for the houston texans in september, they had no interest, and patriots brought him in under contract the next day.
i wonder what BB/SP can see that the texans don't?
anybody got a punch line for that?

 

[emoney_33]

pk sam will turn 23 in february 06.
he worked out for the houston texans in september, they had no interest, and patriots brought him in under contract the next day.
i wonder what BB/SP can see that the texans don't?
anybody got a punch line for that?

talent .

 

[Tony Collins]

I think this guy really brings a deep threat to the Patriots offense that we need to open up the shorter stuff underneath.

His 6 catches for 137 yds on Saturday were huge in terms of clutch play.

I believe he will become a restricted free agent at the end of this season, or maybe its unrestricted.

I cannot think of many WR's I would rather have for the sort of wages we are paying him - what sort of deal will he be offered?

I hope the CBA will get sorted out, but its not looking to healthy at this time - will this have an impact on our free agent signings next year?

NM

Like all Patriots, Givens will play for free. He will be signing a 6 year deal with no cap hit. Ever.

That's why the Patriots are so good.

 

[Brady#12]

Like all Patriots, Givens will play for free. He will be signing a 6 year deal with no cap hit. Ever.

That's why the Patriots are so good.

we can all dream

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

pk sam will turn 23 in february 06.
he worked out for the houston texans in september, they had no interest, and patriots brought him in under contract the next day.
i wonder what BB/SP can see that the texans don't?
anybody got a punch line for that?

We'll have to ask Dan Reeves.....

Andre Davis has been playing a bit better as the season progresses, I'd like to see him run tighter routes and block better. Perhaps an offseason catching balls with Brady will tune him up where he can take heat off Branch and Brown the way Givens does. PK, we brought him back and gave him most of a full season to develop on the Practice Squad, good things happen to OLs there, so we'll see.

 

[Miguel]

OK. You quoted me properly. Its hard to have the time to read through all the posts, and while clearly I said those they werent my primary point. Apologize for questioning your post.

Apology accepted.

 

[Miguel]

No, I think its more than that.
Of course, the average $$ depend on the years.
Since Givens is yuong, he will get a longer term contract than older guys would.

Im not too good at this, but here is my guess.

He will get 5 years. He'll get a 5mill sb.
The salaries will be 500k first year (almost always min salary first yr for FA)
1.5mil
2mill
2.5mill
4mill

Total deal is 5 yrs 15mill.
Cap hits, 1.5, 2.5, 3,3.5,5

I do NOT consider that a big FA contract.

Irony - Andy has been saying that Givens is not the type of WR that teams pay huge money for but his proposal would give
1.) Givens a larger contract than Patten received.
2.) a contract larger than a great number of wide receivers who have better measurables.

Last year only 13 wideouts took home more than $5.5 million. Last year only about 20 wideouts had a cap number of at least $3 million.

 

[patsfan21]

do you feel the patriots might have already prepared themself by trading for Andre Davis, he has shown flashes of being still a good reciever, and he has the speed that Givins doesn't, he missed all of camp and hasn't really had a chance to work with brady yet, i think he might be a decent replacement

 

[mgteich]

I think Givens will get free agent interest. The question for me is whether he gets $3M a year, with a cap that gets to $3M in year three, or whether he gets $4M-$5M a year. Is he viewed as a #2 or a #1. Even some #2's get $4M a year as Housmenzada did.

The open question is whether the patriots pay that kind of money to Givens, with Branch in his contract year. Shouldn't Branch expect $1M a year more than Givens.

For me, WR is the #1 issue for the offseason, by far. Bring back the IR's and we are fine everywhere else.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Drafting another NT/DE candidate is higher for me, but I agree, the chemistry at WR is a big concern with Givens a UFA.

 

[Miguel]

do you feel the patriots might have already prepared themself by trading for Andre Davis, he has shown flashes of being still a good reciever, and he has the speed that Givins doesn't, he missed all of camp and hasn't really had a chance to work with brady yet, i think he might be a decent replacement

Excellent point.

 

[fgssand]

Keep DGIV if possible, please

Givens is a force and fits our system extremely well. I really hope we can keep him right here. I expect the Patriots to make a serious offer to keep him around, but, any team could place a value on him higher that the Patriots and then offer him more. At that point, DGiv will have a real hard choice to make.
Compounding all negotiations this year and next is the CBA still in limbo. If you read the piece in yesterdays Globe by Wrong Borges (link below) I think, players such as DGiv & Seymour and countless numbers of other FA's or players that are a year away, are going to face a weird negotiating off season. It will be extremely difficult for player & teams to figure out what to do and how to do it. Patriots should be in an advantageous position as we have money and brains to figure this thing all out. Trust in BB/SP & Mr. Kraft.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2005/12/25/fallout_would_be_no_bargain/

 

[Zuma]

I'm very happy with Givens. He fits. I think he's just as important as many here projected Starks to be. I have no problem with him at the 2-2.5 mil per year range.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Curran's take:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20051222_22pats.f884015.html

The Patriots will have a decision to make on Givens this offseason. Originally a seventh-round pick out of Notre Dame, Givens will be an unrestricted free agent after the season. This year, he's a restricted free agent making $1.43 million after playing for very short money in his first three seasons.
The Patriots like him. They tried to extend him last offseason. But Givens didn't bite and there's a good chance he'll wind up in the free-agent waters. Why? Because the Patriots generally have a strict amount they'll pay for a player, and Givens likely will find that his age (26 next season) and production level in a very diverse offense will garner real interest.

 

[Miguel]

I'm very happy with Givens. He fits. I think he's just as important as many here projected Starks to be. I have problem with him at the 2-2.5 mil per year range.

This year the average cap number for the 67 starting wide receivers was $2.2 million a year. Are you proposing to Givens and expect that he accept a deal that would pay him less than the average starting wide receiver??

See Page 55
http://www.nflpa.org/PDFs/Shared/20...y_Averages_&_Signing_Trends_November_2005.pdf

 

[Miguel]

Curran's take:

http://www.projo.com/patriots/content/projo_20051222_22pats.f884015.html

Curran is a genius

 

[ilduce06410]

have the band start practicing "memories"

This year the average cap number for the 67 starting wide receivers was $2.2 million a year. Are you proposing to Givens and expect that he accept a deal that would pay him less than the average starting wide receiver??

See Page 55
http://www.nflpa.org/PDFs/Shared/20...y_Averages_&_Signing_Trends_November_2005.pdf

IMHO givens hasto go with the money. bruschi can play for short money-he's probably got $10 million from his previous contracts. sure, $1.43 million this year sounds mighty good to me. but there IS a differeence in standard of living if you got $10m vs $1m. it's bad business for him to play for $1.4m per season with say, a $2m bonus. when he can get a $5m bonus and $2m annually. maybe the GMs and HCs who can actually think we see it the way we do (smile), but somebody will give our guy the money. minnesota, arizona, jaguars, jets (?).
givens and the twig, IMHO, are a balanced set of WRs. either one can hurt you deep. and not just 1 big play in a game. keep looking elsewhere and one or the other will run off 3-4 big catches.
they are both posession receivers as well. we've all seen the quick outs and slants they run, obviously the product of stuff they worked on in july.
lose 1 and opposing safeties will roll to the one who's left until you get another WR who can hurt them.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

"do you feel the patriots might have already prepared themself by trading for Andre Davis, he has shown flashes of being still a good reciever, and he has the speed that Givins doesn't, he missed all of camp and hasn't really had a chance to work with brady yet, i think he might be a decent replacement"

I also thought this as well. Andre is fast. I am surprised that he didn't get more attention around the league.