Dan Shaughnessy: Biggest douche bag of them all?

[1960Pats]

Dan Shaughnessy's Brady article is 100% fact and truth.

Brady tampered. If he did not tamper then who did Miami tamper with? It takes 2. The NFL does not fine players for tampering because its all on the club to not engage with a player/coach under contract with a different franchise. That should change. There should be a Brady rule where players pay a price for pimping themselves out. Brady did it twice with 2 different teams.

Brady was dancing with Miami to get back at the Patriots.

You read the Boston Globe? Why?

The first time Miami* tampered they paid a huge fine and lost a pick. This time they didn't get to keep the player or coach.

Brady seems like a popular dance partner.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, you literally have 0 proof of this, and what the structure of the contract was like. You say this with confidence like I didnt just show you an example proving this is incorrect. How much did KVN make in Miami? He signed a 51 million dollar deal. Surely he received all of it...According to your logic?

You dont listen to or read reporting. "He doesnt need the money" is laughable. BB doesnt need the money either, is he coaching for free?

You could say limit? Limit decision making and reading a defense on their end, which alters the route? Makes them play more decisive which would hopefully lead to playing faster? Things that all reporting and players have said.

I havent googled anything, I have listened to what players here have said. You are simply saying, just because the media mob is saying it, means they all lack the knowledge to understand what theyre seeing. Where as, they havent done that in any year except this one. Wonder why

If Brady signed a 2 year extension for 53 mill he would have made more than the 50 mill Tampa paid him unless he was cut. That is fact, incontrovertible fact. It is proof all by itself.

So you think he does need the money? For real?
You would have me believe Brady would have returned if it was guaranteed but just couldn’t because he wanted to have $25 in the event that he was cut and no one wanted him? That’s what you think if Tom Brady? And he could have made more as a broadcaster if that happened.

Limit what? What are you even talking about. Are you seriously suggesting that the Patriots are changing their passing game concepts to where receivers now do not have option routes based upon sight reads? Are you seriously trying to say players have said that?. Now you are just lying.

Your last paragraph is a perfect example of your MO. You take my comments, which you know you cannot refute, and turn them into something I didn’t say so that you can create an argument refuting the misstated one you just created. Severely dishonest. I know you don’t have the balls to do it, but admitting you are wrong had much more integrity that all this lying.

 

[1960Pats]

No doubt he's an all-time player but the NBA had like 5 teams in it when he won 11 championships.

This is the worst argument that I see repeated often (there were actually 8 teams in the beginning and 14 at the end of his career). Less teams means more concentrated talent. Even at the end of his career, as a player/HC, he led his team to a title in game 7 at LA against a team that had Wilt, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. All are HOFers. Bill Russell played against less stiffs in his entire career than current NBA players see in a half season. There's too many players now and the product has been watered down.

 

[1960Pats]

I read it, didn't seem that bad. Let's face it. Tom became a Diva and we didn't recognize it because we bought the hype

He changed. I blame Gisele

 

[All3Phases]

If Brady signed a 2 year extension for 53 mill he would have made more than the 50 mill Tampa paid him unless he was cut. That is fact, incontrovertible fact. It is proof all by itself.

It is literally not a fact in any way. KVN signed a 4/51 mil deal in Miami in 2020. How much did he earn and how long did he play for? How many more examples do you need to realize the headline of the contract doesnt just go to the players pocket?

So you think he does need the money? For real?

What are you talking about? Who said that?

You would have me believe Brady would have returned if it was guaranteed but just couldn’t because he wanted to have $25 in the event that he was cut and no one wanted him? That’s what you think if Tom Brady? And he could have made more as a broadcaster if that happened.

Having the Guaranteed money in the 2nd year or beyond, guarantees him the starting role for the Patriots...Which would mean playing to his mid 40s, which he has discussed multiple times. Going year to year, leaves doubt, its not a hard concept.

Limit what? What are you even talking about. Are you seriously suggesting that the Patriots are changing their passing game concepts to where receivers now do not have option routes based upon sight reads? Are you seriously trying to say players have said that?. Now you are just lying.

Your last paragraph is a perfect example of your MO. You take my comments, which you know you cannot refute, and turn them into something I didn’t say so that you can create an argument refuting the misstated one you just created. Severely dishonest. I know you don’t have the balls to do it, but admitting you are wrong had much more integrity that all this lying.

I am asking you to back up your claim with examples. Its not hard.

 

[Ring 6]

It is literally not a fact in any way. KVN signed a 4/51 mil deal in Miami in 2020. How much did he earn and how long did he play for?

What are you talking about? Who said that?

Having the Guaranteed money in the 2nd year or beyond, guarantees him the starting role for the Patriots...Which would mean playing to his mid 40s, which he has discussed multiple times. Going year to year, leaves doubt, its not a hard concept.



I am asking you to back up your claim with examples. Its not hard.

Of course it’s a fact. Read what I wrote. Kyle Van Noy getting cut in Miami had nothing to do with Brady’s contract offer and what he would earn if he wasn’t cut.

You are arguing that getting paid for 2021 if he was cut after 2020 and no one picked him up was the crucial problem for Brady. That’s assinine.

He was offered a 2 year extension. 2020 and 2021 so now you think he was afraid he would be beaten out by Stidham and his only job security was they have to pay him any way. My God.

I gave you many examples and explanations. I cited numerous years where the type of plays called significantly. Are you saying 2006 and 2007 were the same? 2019 and 2020? 2020 and 2021? 2001 and 2002? 2009 and 2010?
You seem to think that if someone who watches the team and writes articles about what they think is going on, it means more than actually looking at what happens on the field.

 

[All3Phases]

Of course it’s a fact. Read what I wrote. Kyle Van Noy getting cut in Miami had nothing to do with Brady’s contract offer and what he would earn if he wasn’t cut.

KVN signed a contract that was 4/51, he didnt receive 51. Who cares what the reason is. It all had to do with the guarantees, turns out the team was able to cut him after year 1 because chunks of his money wasnt gtd until he was on the roster. Guarantees are everything, theres a million examples of it. You (maybe?) are not able to see the future, you would have no idea what the future for Brady wouldve been like and what he wouldve earned on that contract in each year. 50 mil in Tampa was FULLY guaranteed. Massive difference.

You are arguing that getting paid for 2021 if he was cut after 2020 and no one picked him up was the crucial problem for Brady. That’s assinine.

Let’s compare details in Tom Brady’s new contract to how Patriots talks went

Brady signed a two-year contract with Tampa on Friday, and it’s worth $50 million fully guaranteed. Did the Patriots come close to that?

theathletic.com

"They tried again last summer to extend Brady’s contract. Similar to the year before, Brady wanted guaranteed money beyond the first year of the deal for job security reasons. So if they reached an extension last summer, he would have wanted enough guaranteed money in 2020 to know he’d be the starting quarterback and the team wouldn’t turn toward a younger model."

He was offered a 2 year extension. 2020 and 2021 so now you think he was afraid he would be beaten out by Stidham and his only job security was they have to pay him any way. My God.

I am sorry you dont agree with what Brady wanted and couldve easily gotten here...As it was way below market value. Doesnt change the fact that the 2 contracts were not close

I gave you many examples and explanations. I cited numerous years where the type of plays called significantly. Are you saying 2006 and 2007 were the same? 2019 and 2020? 2020 and 2021? 2001 and 2002? 2009 and 2010?
You seem to think that if someone who watches the team and writes articles about what they think is going on, it means more than actually looking at what happens on the field.

I think this has run its course, "I said so" is clearly your MO

 

[Ring 6]

KVN signed a contract that was 4/51, he didnt receive 51. Who cares what the reason is. It all had to do with the guarantees, turns out the team was able to cut him after year 1 because chunks of his money wasnt gtd until he was on the roster. Guarantees are everything, theres a million examples of it. You (maybe?) are not able to see the future, you would have no idea what the future for Brady wouldve been like and what he wouldve earned on that contract in each year. 50 mil in Tampa was FULLY guaranteed. Massive difference.

Let’s compare details in Tom Brady’s new contract to how Patriots talks went

Brady signed a two-year contract with Tampa on Friday, and it’s worth $50 million fully guaranteed. Did the Patriots come close to that?

theathletic.com

"They tried again last summer to extend Brady’s contract. Similar to the year before, Brady wanted guaranteed money beyond the first year of the deal for job security reasons. So if they reached an extension last summer, he would have wanted enough guaranteed money in 2020 to know he’d be the starting quarterback and the team wouldn’t turn toward a younger model."

I am sorry you dont agree with what Brady wanted and couldve easily gotten here...As it was way below market value. Doesnt change the fact that the 2 contracts were not close

I think this has run its course, "I said so" is clearly your MO

Thanks for agreeing his contract was 51 mill. We can move in now I think.

Guarantees are an important facet of a contract. Our discussion was about my statement that he was offered the same money. We seem to now agree.

If Brady wanted to stay, the guarantee would have been irrelevant. He wasn’t getting cut before 2021. No chance. And if he did, he could go get a new contract like Revis did. If not he could go to broadcasting and make even more. You are painting Brady as a selfish money grubbing man and I disagree with that characterization. He accepted less than he could have gotten on the market many times to hell the team win. He signed the exact same type of extension 2 years earlier for less money. Why wasnt it a problem then?
YOU seem to value that second year being guaranteed but there is no evidence that really suggests it did or should matter to Brady.

I gave you 5 specific examples where the patriot offense changed significantly. I could give you 15 more where it changed less significantly. There could be no better proof that when I said this is normal it happens every year to different degrees I was 100% correct. Forget that BB himself said the same thing, I guess you think he’s wrong because reporters, lol.

 

[All3Phases]

Thanks for agreeing his contract was 51 mill. We can move in now I think.

Right he actually made more than Brady did...Right?

Guarantees are an important facet of a contract. Our discussion was about my statement that he was offered the same money. We seem to now agree.

I dont agree, that is literally what all of my examples are showing you. Revis never got 32 mil, KVN never got 51. They signed those contracts, how did they not earn for what they signed if the money was equal?

If Brady wanted to stay, the guarantee would have been irrelevant. He wasn’t getting cut before 2021. No chance. And if he did, he could go get a new contract like Revis did. If not he could go to broadcasting and make even more. You are painting Brady as a selfish money grubbing man and I disagree with that characterization. He accepted less than he could have gotten on the market many times to hell the team win. He signed the exact same type of extension 2 years earlier for less money. Why wasnt it a problem then?
YOU seem to value that second year being guaranteed but there is no evidence that really suggests it did or should matter to Brady.

You read what I linked you right? That is literally evidence that is what he wanted. When all of the beat writers have the same info, they didnt make it up.

I gave you 5 specific examples where the patriot offense changed significantly. I could give you 15 more where it changed less significantly. There could be no better proof that when I said this is normal it happens every year to different degrees I was 100% correct. Forget that BB himself said the same thing, I guess you think he’s wrong because reporters, lol.

"Because I said so". Like I said, this portion is going nowhere clearly

 

[Ring 6]

Right he actually made more than Brady did...Right?

I dont agree, that is literally what all of my examples are showing you. Revis never got 32 mil, KVN never got 51. They signed those contracts, how did they not earn for what they signed if the money was equal?

You read what I linked you right? That is literally evidence that is what he wanted. When all of the beat writers have the same info, they didnt make it up.

"Because I said so". Like I said, this portion is going nowhere clearly

So referencing exactly what happened on the football field and the words of the man who makes decision is “because I said so” and you are trump my that with “Jeff Howe thinks”? Brilliant.

Let’s try this.
How much did the offense change from 2019 to 2020?

 

[All3Phases]

So referencing exactly what happened on the football field and the words of the man who makes decision is “because I said so” and you are trump my that with “Jeff Howe thinks”? Brilliant.

You seem to just not believe in reporters and sources. If that is your angle, then sure. Its meaningless

Let’s try this.
How much did the offense change from 2019 to 2020?

It changed so much that the terminology was changed, and the playbook was streamlined...Im sure there are reports to back this up.

 

[Ring 6]

You seem to just not believe in reporters and sources. If that is your angle, then sure. Its meaningless

It changed so much that the terminology was changed, and the playbook was streamlined...Im sure there are reports to back this up.

I believe in facts not stories. I believe in what belichick says he is doing and does, not what an observer thinks he is going to do.

I am talking about the offense they ran on the football field not what people talked about.

So again how much did the offense change from 2019 to 2020?
You are a fan, you watch the games right? Do you seriously need to have someone tell you what you saw?

 

[All3Phases]

I believe in facts not stories. I believe in what belichick says he is doing and does, not what an observer thinks he is going to do.

I am talking about the offense they ran on the football field not what people talked about.

So again how much did the offense change from 2019 to 2020?
You are a fan, you watch the games right? Do you seriously need to have someone tell you what you saw?

So where did you get the fact they offered 2/53 to Brady?

 

[Ring 6]

So where did you get the fact they offered 2/53 to Brady?

It was well known at the time. No one has refuted it.
And of course contract offers and football played in a football field are not the same thing.
So again when you watched the Patriots play in 2019 and then in 2020 how much did the offense change? If you didn’t watch those years I can pick different ones.

 

[All3Phases]

It was well known at the time. No one has refuted it.

Its funny, because do you know who reported that? Jeff Howe, in the exact report that I linked you. So its a fact for you, just not for me. Gotcha. Glad we could clear that up.

And of course contract offers and football played in a football field are not the same thing.
So again when you watched the Patriots play in 2019 and then in 2020 how much did the offense change? If you didn’t watch those years I can pick different ones.

How much did the terminology change and was the playbook streamlined?

 

[Kontradiction]

Better a homer than an apologist.




"cling to the league investigation"? lol ... Pointing out that the league what the league knows, and the fact that they felt the need to hammer the fins/ross/beal over "just tampering everyone does it" says more about that than I ever could...

You do realize that its literally meaningless where Brady ultimately signed, right? He deliberately had multiple conversations with the fins ... that alone works as a detriment of the Patriots... Whether or not he re-signed here, or left as he did is irrelevant - its still a **** move on his part.

and finally, the league does indeed maintain that, and thats why both the contracts and the cba spell out the bounds of free agency ... its in the player contracts... Read the CBA - there is a copy of the standard contract in it... its all in black and white, easy to read... and as it furthers my point, just because he could do something without penalty, doesn't mean he should...

it was a **** move by Tom Brady who is ultimately proving that he has no character beyond achieving his own desires... that he has no honor... that he's just another selfish narcissistic athlete...

If those conversations were deemed to be that detrimental to the Patriots (I.E., “conduct detrimental”), why wouldn’t the league suspend Brady? Or at least fine him? CHB’s hypothesis that it’s because he’s the league’s golden boy falls flat when you consider they suspended him for air leaving a ball on a cold day. So why not? Ultimately, your last paragraph gives away that you’re not able to be unbiased on this topic, but I’m interested to see how you’ll spin it.

 

[Ring 6]

Its funny, because do you know who reported that? Jeff Howe, in the exact report that I linked you. So its a fact for you, just not for me. Gotcha. Glad we could clear that up.

How much did the terminology change and was the playbook streamlined?

Reporting what you were told was negotiated and analyzing football
are 2 entirely different things

I could not give a damn about when terminology is changed.
I could further not care when they remove things not being used from the playbook.

I am talking about football. On the field. How they run the offense.
You are trying to okay semantics games. Evidently because you know absolutely nothing about football or what the patriots do, so you rely on writers to tell you.

I will ask again and restate the topic as well.
The topic is do they change the offense every year to varying degrees.

The question is how much did they change the offense from 2019 to 2020.
If you watched the games, did they run the same plays, use the same formations, gave them sane overall philosophy or did it change a lot that year?

 

[RobertWeathers]

If those conversations were deemed to be that detrimental to the Patriots (I.E., “conduct detrimental”), why wouldn’t the league suspend Brady? Or at least fine him? CHB’s hypothesis that it’s because he’s the league’s golden boy falls flat when you consider they suspended him for air leaving a ball on a cold day. So why not? Ultimately, your last paragraph gives away that you’re not able to be unbiased on this topic, but I’m interested to see how you’ll spin it.

My guess is #1 the contract between TB and NE is a "team matter" and not a "league matter".

There is no reality NE would suspend Tom for talking to MIA in Aug of 2019. The fan and NFLPA backlash would be unfathomable.

If the did have the balls to do it, imagine the lead in the Boston Globe.

"The New England Patriots have suspended Tom Brady indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team for having employment-related conversations with Stephen Ross and other representatives of the Miami Dolphins in August of 2019 while Brady was still under contract with the Patriots".

 

[All3Phases]

Reporting what you were told was negotiated and analyzing football
are 2 entirely different things

Jeff Howe is reporting what he was told in both cases, yet you took the 2/53 as fact but nothing else...Odd

I could not give a damn about when terminology is changed.
I could further not care when they remove things not being used from the playbook.

Ok, then we arent arguing the same thing

I am talking about football. On the field. How they run the offense.
You are trying to okay semantics games. Evidently because you know absolutely nothing about football or what the patriots do, so you rely on writers to tell you.

Have you watched every practice?

I will ask again and restate the topic as well.
The topic is do they change the offense every year to varying degrees.

I have never disagreed, you said this type of change happens every year. Clearly it does not, which is why I am using all of the reports and talking by the players as my examples. If this happened every year, there would have been talk about it. You have already said you dont care about that though.

 

[Kontradiction]

My guess is #1 the contract between TB and NE is a "team matter" and not a "league matter".

There is no reality NE would suspend Tom for talking to MIA in Aug of 2019. The fan and NFLPA backlash would be unfathomable.

If the did have the balls to do it, imagine the lead in the Boston Globe.

"The New England Patriots have suspended Tom Brady indefinitely for conduct detrimental to the team for having employment-related conversations with Stephen Ross and other representatives of the Miami Dolphins in August of 2019 while Brady was still under contract with the Patriots".

That’s not what I’m asking, though. I’m asking why the NFL didn’t suspend Brady, or at least fine him, when they dropped the hammer in Miami. Bear in mind that the answer is clear. @lancerman provided it earlier in the thread. But @Pape didn’t seem to agree with that. That’s why I asked.