Curran: Patriots will be "extremely and uncharacteristically" aggressive in Free Agency

[Ring 6]

If the Pats collapse under Belichick without Brady? I'm looking at Shula's and Lombardi's records - they don't show any collapse. I don't think Bill would get a pass for that. Rings are also a team accomplishment, not a coach-only accomplishment.

Are you kidding me?
lombardi coached 9 years. If belichick drops off its after 20. Lombardi went to the redskins after go and had a .500 record. Couldn’t win without Starr I guess.
Shula went his last 12 years without a Sb and his last 22 without a championship. Shula couldn’t win WITH MARINO so that would make him the GOAT if belichick doesn’t win without Brady?????
Shula had double digit wins 3 times in his last 10 seasons, with Marino

 

[Rusty Coupe]

If the Pats collapse under Belichick without Brady? I'm looking at Shula's and Lombardi's records - they don't show any collapse. I don't think Bill would get a pass for that. Rings are also a team accomplishment, not a coach-only accomplishment.

Shula was 6-10 in 1988

 

[Froob]

No it isn’t. He won, trying to belittle winning is stupid. Only an ignorant fool could watch how this team has operated and not know belichick is the GOAT. No one ever has won by themselves to diminish a coaches success because he has players and coached them is ridiculous.
even more so when it’s the greatest run ever and lasted 20 years.
Plus he won’t stink. He will rebuild this team this year and be a contender. Last year his hands were tied. This year they are not.

Didn’t say he will stink. Saying if he did.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Shula was 6-10 in 1988

He rebuilt MIA nicely in the late 80s early 90s.

Wrong era to be in the same division as the Bills and dealing with NFC dominance.

 

[sb1]

Shula was 6-10 in 1988

I don't mean a one-off I mean a sustained collapse that the Pats don't get back to contention without their legendary QB. None of the other all time greats in the conversation of GOAT had that happen to them.

 

[Ring 6]

Didn’t say he will stink. Saying if he did.

Even if he did his legacy is in stone.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't mean a one-off I mean a sustained collapse that the Pats don't get back to contention without their legendary QB. None of the other all time greats in the conversation of GOAT had that happen to them.

He had Marino’s entire career and won nothing.
Are you honestly telling me that in a question of who is the GOAT you would take the guy who had less success but didn’t have terrible seasons at the end of his career, just mediocre ones?
come on man.
If it turns out Belichick never wins without Brady it doesn’t make the guy who never won WITH Marino better.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't mean a one-off I mean a sustained collapse that the Pats don't get back to contention without their legendary QB. None of the other all time greats in the conversation of GOAT had that happen to them.

Like a 10 year run of only 3 double digit win seasons with a hof QB in his prime?

 

[ausbacker]

2020 at least proved that Bill is human and isn't a winner when he has an awful QB and a weak team to work with. Just like any NFL coach, no matter how great they are. Let's see what happens when he has a better team starting this year. Bill's legacy is already dinged a bit from Spygate and from the Butler benching, two decisions that hurt the team in the short and the long term.

I think a total collapse will knock him off the top as GOAT head coach.

The Patriots were two plays away from 9-7 than 7-9 thanks to Newton's egregious mistakes. Heck, a Brian Hoyer meltdown in KC probably cost them another win which would be 10-6. Belichick is a heck of a coach. To even sniff a winning record, with all the opt-outs and a historically bad collective QB performance is, while not what we're accustomed to, reason for optimism.

 

[ralmat55]

They could have been 9-7 as well if Bill and staff hadn’t been completely out coached by an interim staff in Houston and Kyle Shanahan’s staff had not embarrassed them in the 49ers game. Speaking of embarrassment, Almost forgot the 2nd Bills game. You know the one where a gunner was just left uncovered resulting in an easy fake punt play. Then, there was the 2nd half of the game in Miami which was very winnable except Bill and staff stayed with 6 DBs while the worst rushing offense in the NFL ran the ball down their throats to victory.

10 years ago the Pats were rarely if ever out coached. They might have lost, but they weren’t out coached.Last year it happened with regularity.

Belichick’s record speaks for itself. “You are what you are” Bill Parcells used to say, and his old DC just finished his first under 500 season since 2000. The question is not that Belichick is the GOAT. The question is whether he can still live up to his GOAT status at 69 years old. His job is hard and extremely demanding. He’s old enough to be the Grampy of the players he’s coaching for goodness sake.

I hope he can rebuild this team, and they’re back in contention in quick order, but to just assume he can because he did it 20 years ago is wishful thinking. “Past performance does not guarantee future results “.

 

[RIpats88]

The Patriots were two plays away from 9-7 than 7-9 thanks to Newton's egregious mistakes. Heck, a Brian Hoyer meltdown in KC probably cost them another win which would be 10-6. Belichick is a heck of a coach. To even sniff a winning record, with all the opt-outs and a historically bad collective QB performance is, while not what we're accustomed to, reason for optimism.

This. People are acting like we were 2-14. We are actually alot closer to being a playoff team than people think. I mean the Texans with watson won only 4 games, atlanta won 4 games loaded with talent on offense

Add a receiver, tight end and any QB who actually can throw (mariota, jimmy G) and we are 10-6 or 11-5

 

[borg]

He had Marino’s entire career and won nothing.
Are you honestly telling me that in a question of who is the GOAT you would take the guy who had less success but didn’t have terrible seasons at the end of his career, just mediocre ones?
come on man.
If it turns out Belichick never wins without Brady it doesn’t make the guy who never won WITH Marino better.

Help me out.
Did Shula have total autonomy in Miami........coach, GM, etc ?
--------------------------------------------
His Marino teams were so flawed......specifically....the team's inability to run the ball

Shula was to RB as Belichick is to WRs

 

[Sciz]

Help me out.
Did Shula have total autonomy in Miami........coach, GM, etc ?
--------------------------------------------
His Marino teams were so flawed......specifically....the team's inability to run the ball

Shula was to RB as Belichick is to WRs

Shula was completely in charge from 1970-1977. After missing the playoffs three seasons in a row, the owner hired his own son to be the GM.

 

[Ring 6]

Help me out.
Did Shula have total autonomy in Miami........coach, GM, etc ?
--------------------------------------------
His Marino teams were so flawed......specifically....the team's inability to run the ball

Shula was to RB as Belichick is to WRs

Im not sure the relevance.
The teams were flawed because of the way they were coached. Nonetheless no one say shulas legacy was destroyed by it.

 

[Ring 6]

This. People are acting like we were 2-14. We are actually alot closer to being a playoff team than people think. I mean the Texans with watson won only 4 games, atlanta won 4 games loaded with talent on offense

Add a receiver, tight end and any QB who actually can throw (mariota, jimmy G) and we are 10-6 or 11-5

Just add a qb who doesn’t make mind bogglingly stupid decisions and choke when the game is on the line and you have at least 3 more wins.

 

[50-yard-line]

Are you kidding me?
lombardi coached 9 years. If belichick drops off its after 20. Lombardi went to the redskins after go and had a .500 record. Couldn’t win without Starr I guess.
Shula went his last 12 years without a Sb and his last 22 without a championship. Shula couldn’t win WITH MARINO so that would make him the GOAT if belichick doesn’t win without Brady?????
Shula had double digit wins 3 times in his last 10 seasons, with Marino

And Marino played QB as well as anyone.

This board is almost a parody with the BB baloney. I can tell several posters just sit back and watch F&M and seethe all afternoon.

Brady went to a team full of top-15 draft picks, second round picks that were only a few places behind the Pats 1st rounder (when they got first-rounders) and a bunch of reclamation vets - Gronk, Brown, Suh, Fournette - on the cheap. Give Tampa all the credit in the world for their recent moves - they did exactly what the NFL is designed for crap teams to do.

Give Brady a ton of credit, sure, but does anyone think that Tampa couldn't have won with several other QBs? Wilson? Mahomes? Rodgers? They gave up 9 freaking points to KC - first double-digit loss in Mahomes' career. Their D shut down the highest-flying O in the league this year three separate times in the second half at Lambeau after Brady picks - had that not happened and GB pulled that game out (which could have happened with something as little as Rodgers walking into the end zone on third down instead of trying to make an impossible pass), none of this talk would be happening right now. Brady would blame himself for that loss, and not without reason, and we'd all be saying, "better a year too early..."

That's how fine a line the NFL is. Champ or chump - Tampa's defense made Brady the former in the GB game.

And again, don't get me wrong. I was whooping it up for Brady in the SB, thrilled to see the GOAT be the GOAT. But let's not kid ourselves here in our BB flagellation exorcism. Brady landed in the best possible situation and used everything he has learned over two decades of success and that unrivaled inner fire to elevate that team. Barring injury, they've got to be favorites to repeat.

Meanwhile, BB went into FA with almost no money, lost most of his line-backing corps, his NT - then 8 pieces, several key ones - at the last moment. He played a season full of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years players (no top-half of Round 1 picks), a reclamation prayer at QB who got COVID and never looked the same, and had a broken throwing motion anyway, missed almost 4 weeks of practice in the middle of the season due to protocols, lost their best receiver for 10 games, played one of, if not THE toughest schedule in the league, with half of their games against 2020 playoff teams, came within one play of beating the Seahawks and the Bills, and had KC on the ropes with Brian Hoyer, ffs.

7-9 meant that with all of that, with almost all of the veteran leadership and proven players gone, no LB corps, no serviceable QB, they were in the middle of the pack in the NFL.

Yeah, BB sucks. Gimme a break.

 

[WeezyFbaby]

And those undersized guys who play in the box just get beat up. Dugger was on the injury report with three separate issues last season, including the ankle that cost him two games. Philips broke his arm in 2019 with the Chargers and left this year's week 17 game with a hip issue that may have cost him time if the season hadn't been over. Chung missed three non-consecutive games with heel and chest injuries in 2019. It'd be nice to not be one injury away from Terrence Brooks playing every snap (week 8 against the Bills).

Well said, its a tough position to play and having good depth is crucial to not wear these guys down. I think Chung is invaluable towards Duggars development as well. We invested a high pick and Chung can certainly provide coaching and wisdom there as well as still hopefully contribute on the field, despite losing a step.

Now if Chung was making 10 million my opinion would be different but were talking pennies on the cap. I think if we want to save some money at the secondary position group, reworking Mcourty or Gilmore contract is the way to go

 

[patsfanincleveland]

And Marino played QB as well as anyone.

This board is almost a parody with the BB baloney. I can tell several posters just sit back and watch F&M and seethe all afternoon.

Brady went to a team full of top-15 draft picks, second round picks that were only a few places behind the Pats 1st rounder (when they got first-rounders) and a bunch of reclamation vets - Gronk, Brown, Suh, Fournette - on the cheap. Give Tampa all the credit in the world for their recent moves - they did exactly what the NFL is designed for crap teams to do.

Give Brady a ton of credit, sure, but does anyone think that Tampa couldn't have won with several other QBs? Wilson? Mahomes? Rodgers? They gave up 9 freaking points to KC - first double-digit loss in Mahomes' career. Their D shut down the highest-flying O in the league this year three separate times in the second half at Lambeau after Brady picks - had that not happened and GB pulled that game out (which could have happened with something as little as Rodgers walking into the end zone on third down instead of trying to make an impossible pass), none of this talk would be happening right now. Brady would blame himself for that loss, and not without reason, and we'd all be saying, "better a year too early..."

That's how fine a line the NFL is. Champ or chump - Tampa's defense made Brady the former in the GB game.

And again, don't get me wrong. I was whooping it up for Brady in the SB, thrilled to see the GOAT be the GOAT. But let's not kid ourselves here in our BB flagellation exorcism. Brady landed in the best possible situation and used everything he has learned over two decades of success and that unrivaled inner fire to elevate that team. Barring injury, they've got to be favorites to repeat.

Meanwhile, BB went into FA with almost no money, lost most of his line-backing corps, his NT - then 8 pieces, several key ones - at the last moment. He played a season full of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years players (no top-half of Round 1 picks), a reclamation prayer at QB who got COVID and never looked the same, and had a broken throwing motion anyway, missed almost 4 weeks of practice in the middle of the season due to protocols, lost their best receiver for 10 games, played one of, if not THE toughest schedule in the league, with half of their games against 2020 playoff teams, came within one play of beating the Seahawks and the Bills, and had KC on the ropes with Brian Hoyer, ffs.

7-9 meant that with all of that, with almost all of the veteran leadership and proven players gone, no LB corps, no serviceable QB, they were in the middle of the pack in the NFL.

Yeah, BB sucks. Gimme a break.

Licht put the Tampa together and is a Belichick guy.

 

[Rob0729]

If the Pats collapse under Belichick without Brady? I'm looking at Shula's and Lombardi's records - they don't show any collapse. I don't think Bill would get a pass for that. Rings are also a team accomplishment, not a coach-only accomplishment.

I don't think that is far. Far different eras. This is a QB driven league now. You don't have a top 5-10 QB in this league and you are likely not getting into the playoffs and you are definitely not contending for a Super Bowl. It is so much more about the QB now. Shula and Lombardi could win with great defenses and not great QB play.

I think if Belichick was coaching under the same conditions that the NFL was in when he first started with the Patriots where he could build a great defense and only as the offense to be efficient, he could have a contender in perpetude. Unfortunately, the league has changed and now it is all about the QB.

 

[Rob0729]

The Patriots were two plays away from 9-7 than 7-9 thanks to Newton's egregious mistakes. Heck, a Brian Hoyer meltdown in KC probably cost them another win which would be 10-6. Belichick is a heck of a coach. To even sniff a winning record, with all the opt-outs and a historically bad collective QB performance is, while not what we're accustomed to, reason for optimism.

I think half the coaches in this league would have not had more than 3-4 wins this season with the talent the Pats had and strength of schedule they had. The Pats had a QB who couldn't make simple passes and even when he did, he didn't have much in the receiving department to catch the ball. And really didn't have a lot in the LB department with his entire starting LB corp from 2019 leaving in free agency or deciding to sit the year out because of COVID.