Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[TommyD4207]

Estate planning.

That cash is his personally, not the team’s money. He can’t just spend it on team expenses.

Besides, they need to keep it for the IRS.

I mean, he *can* he can do whatever he wants with it. Signing bonuses have to be in escrow, so that's cash that actually needs to be on-hand.

 

[Vindicate]

When you spend cash to pay a player under contract that is reflected in the cap.

When you spend cash on a player without it being reflected in a contract, you are breaking the CBA, and maybe there’s a fraud case or something to boot.

Moving cap money from year to year, even habitually kicking the can, can only go so far. Over 10 years it would even out.

Give me the mechanism by which other teams are outspending the Pats, since we’re “dead last.”

I have a suspicion that this whole talking point is just valorizing stupid/undisciplined cap management… let me think thru examples based on dead money. First I thought that might be it,
But let me think it through.

If the diff bw actual cash spent and cash spent under the cap, for 10 years, is anything other than dead money, what other mechanism are you claiming is the culprit?

I think we’re moving money forward the last couple years, but that’s an effect that, for most years, should come out within the 10 yr frame.

Sidebar: I also notice that the BB years are mainly much less “tightwad” than the last 2 under Vrable. BB haters, realize that the bigger “cheapness” was under mayo/vrabel.

I'd say this is the most cited study when folks substantiate the cash spending remark:

Study: Patriots among NFL’s lowest spenders over past 10 years

A new study from The Athletic shows the Patriots haven’t been spending as much on players as most of their peers.

sports.yahoo.com

A comment on reddit speaks to the "well doesn't it all come out in the wash":

"This thread is full of posts that boil down to "it doesnt matter because the cap hits even out over time"

Too simplistic. Players prefer up-front bonuses so high cash spend automatically puts you at an advantage in player negotiations. Players also like deals with void years and big guarantees because it lets them hit FA again sooner while still getting their money now.

Conservative cash spending works in Kraft's favor and makes roster building harder in some ways- there's no doubt about it."


Figured I'd just share things I've read and let you form your own opinion, cap spending and its nuances aren't my forte.

 

[slash83]

Not surprised at this point, Kraft has been a cheap owner for decades. A Gonzo extension was never close and was never getting done, trade him asap his value will only go down the longer this drags out.

Keep a mic away from the cheapskate next offseason before he embarrasses himself again when it comes to Maye getting paid.

 

[Hyped]

I think you missed my point. We're spending a ton of money on our middle class--and getting very little to show for it. And meanwhile we're about to let trade our All-Pro

I am saying we don’t have middle class depth. You say Landry is a middle class guy, but also say he is an overpaid starter/top guy.

That is my point. We need a guy backing up Landry to be just as good as he is. Or better yet, replace Landry with a top guy and push him down the depth chart.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The Pats may have no intention of signing him after trading a 1st round pick for AJ Brown. It's expected that his deal gets redone and will command $35M per year unless he falls off a cliff.

They also hardly have any big contracts on the books and are going to unload a ton of dead weight after this season. If the Pats were worried about it, they would've had more urgency to get this done.

Depending on whether this season turns into 2002 where they can't stop the run, I could see a major twist where the Pats get rid of both Barmore and Williams. There is way too much money tied up between these guys which such putrid production. Both have no guaranteed money going into 2027. Barmore at minimum will be shown the door.

" The Cllff" is a real thing for speed receivers, just look at Amari Cooper and how quick he went from being a good receiver to a jag. The Cliff doesn't apply to guys like AJ Brown. If you look at the receivers who were similar in build and style of play they play at a high level until 34, then drop off. Anquan Bokden, Deandre Hopkins, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and others were productive well past the 30 year old cliff, which is we here the speed guys fall off dramatically, and Brown is likely to be a very productive receiver for another 4-5 years.

 

[Joey007]

Honestly, get Gonzo to play on his current deal this year and I’m good. For now, he’s critical to this year’s team. I’m not worried until I know whether or not he holds himself out of actual games.

Hopefully we eventually pony up on him. But I’ve seen enough players fluctuate throughout their careers to not lose much sleep about him possibly not being here in a couple years.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Over time they are in the bottom few in the league in cash spending. The counter argument “yeah but they spend the cap” was made and I posted that’s not true.
If you are telling Kraft gives up on seasons when he thinks they won’t compete, that’s a new data point.

I think it was a wise move not to spend everything in 2024/2025 when they had to overpay for players and smarter to carry that cap space forward. Following their season last year they aren't looked at as the bottom basement 4-13 team that turned off players who want a Lombardi. They maximized their value by NOT spending to the cap coming off bad years when the only way to attract talent was to overpay like the Jets and other teams often do.

Proper salary cap management requires that one look beyond the present season. Right now I guarantee they're thinking ahead to re-signing Maye and may want to carry cap space forward to deal with that, so don't be surprised to see them carry cap space forward over the next 2 seasons as they consider extending him in 2027.

OR they could do with Maye what they may be doing with Gonzo - take the 5th year option (and then extend or cut him loose after. In Maye's case even that 5th year could be pretty expensive as his playing time and Pro-Bowl selections increase the amount to close to $40 million by then.

That being said, extending Gonzo is a no-brainer and the cost only goes up for an extension next season or after if they are simply thinking they'll have him play out his contract and compete for him in free agency.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats may have no intention of signing him after trading a 1st round pick for AJ Brown. It's expected that his deal gets redone and will command $35M per year unless he falls off a cliff.

They also hardly have any big contracts on the books and are going to unload a ton of dead weight after this season. If the Pats were worried about it, they would've had more urgency to get this done.

Depending on whether this season turns into 2002 where they can't stop the run, I could see a major twist where the Pats get rid of both Barmore and Williams. There is way too much money tied up between these guys which such putrid production. Both have no guaranteed money going into 2027. Barmore at minimum will be shown the door.

What you describe doesn't sound like the Krafts to me. Why would they sign him to an even bigger deal when they are unwilling to do one now? I understand that money may be in more supply but they will need that money to replenish the positions they are cutting.

 

[upstater1]

I am saying we don’t have middle class depth. You say Landry is a middle class guy, but also say he is an overpaid starter/top guy.

That is my point. We need a guy backing up Landry to be just as good as he is. Or better yet, replace Landry with a top guy and push him down the depth chart.

Why can't it be true that a guy is making middle class money and he's not very good? The 2 can both be true.

Giving "Gonzo's money" to 2 guys like Landry certainly doesnt make you better. I'd pay the one guy with the very unique skillset.

 

[Vindicate]

I am saying we don’t have middle class depth. You say Landry is a middle class guy, but also say he is an overpaid starter/top guy.

That is my point. We need a guy backing up Landry to be just as good as he is. Or better yet, replace Landry with a top guy and push him down the depth chart.

Not sure how possible it is to have a lot of middle-class depth without sustained, superior drafting anymore. Just a thought I've been having.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Of course the players prefer getting more money up front. The players want MLB style contracts that are fully guaranteed. They probably would get rid of the salary cap, if they could.

But that isn't what makes the most sense for the NFL. Incompetence of management aside, the NFL is the league where every team theoretically feels like it has a chance. The cap and floor make it so that no team can just buy up all the talent. There are no All-Madden teams in the NFL. There are no LA Dodgers who treat most of the rest of baseball as their farm system. Neither are there teams like the Marlins, Rays, Pirates... who need to rely on miracles and consistently beating the odds in the draft to remain competitive.

Actual cash spending has shown precious little correlation to winning. The teams at the bottom of the cash spending list are simply finding ways to construct their roster that don't involve huge immediate cash payouts. Even the Rams and the Chiefs don't rank in the top half of the NFL. Managing cash spending allows teams to pay the contracts every season for players on the roster.

 

[raduray]

Well, Gonzo seems to be pretty frustrated about the situation when asked about it, so I think it's also what he wants.


Nobody is talking about cap space. It's cash spending.

But isn't cash and cap spending the same in the aggregate over a number of years?

 

[raduray]

I'd say this is the most cited study when folks substantiate the cash spending remark:

Study: Patriots among NFL’s lowest spenders over past 10 years

A new study from The Athletic shows the Patriots haven’t been spending as much on players as most of their peers.

sports.yahoo.com

That Yahoo Sports article is a commentary on an article in The Athletic. The Athletic article also states that "Spending tends to be cyclical, evening out over a long period of time. Link to the article below.

Ranking NFL teams by spending: The boldest, most frugal and best bang for the buck

Teams are spending more aggressively than ever, but everyone’s approach is unique, and many have seen little return on investment.

www.nytimes.com