Coronavirus RESPECTFUL Discussion Only! (Mod edit: Closed)

[italian pat patriot]

I'm looking at this in black and white terms...and that is the numbers.

again...and i close the matter...you really continue to miss the situation...

it is too early for You in USA...

and, again...i HOPE TO BE WRONG...

 

[primetime]

I think we still have a good handle on how many people died of it. When someone *dies*, there are coroner investigations, a cause of death, etc.

What we don’t know is how many people with mild symptoms have this or the flu or a common cold.

No, there are not coroner investigations. This isn't a gunshot wound, you can't be like "aha I found the murder virus." Again, the number of deaths is the number of people who tested positive while alive who died under medical observation.

 

[Twentytothree]

I'm not arguing the benefits/awfulness of Communism. I'm arguing against those people who think governments are agile enough and have the stomach to deal with a pandemic. Govts are concerned about preserving their image (China) and the economy (US) and are too rigid with bureaucratic structure to respond appropriately.

Government action in many Asian countries has led to a much lower basic reproduction rate R0 than in countries that did not take immediate action or have a population that is not willing to go along with the recommended action. Countries in Europe were late to realize this and are paying now, and the US has days to make a difference. Of course not testing people is one way to keep confirmed cases/deaths low - that's certainly a unique approach.

 

[Adam Seward]

I'm looking at this in black and white terms...and that is the numbers.

Except number without context are... not very useful.

You’re missing the component of time. With time and transmission rate comes spread. It looks very slow in the beginning 2,4,8,16 etc. Once it starts rolling it’s a freight train. 500,1000,2000,4000. China has been in the game longer than we have so their numbers are higher. However they responded quickly with sweeping measures to slow the transmission rate. Similar to Cuomo with New Rochelle but on a scale of 2x USA.

We haven’t been in the game long but that freight train is beginning to roll.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Except number without context are... not very useful.

You’re missing the component of time. With time and transmission rate comes spread. It looks very slow in the beginning 2,4,8,16 etc. Once it starts rolling it’s a freight train. 500,1000,2000,4000. China has been in the game longer than we have so their numbers are higher. However they responded quickly with sweeping measures to slow the transmission rate. Similar to Cuomo with New Rochelle but on a scale of 2x USA.

We haven’t been in the game long but that freight train is beginning to roll.

I understand what you're saying. But the first death in the US from coronovirus came on February 28, a month after Trump's China ban. The first US case was on January 20 and then within a week Trump issued the ban. It would have been much worse if the President didn't act as quickly as he did. I'll take our nation's response to this over China's any day. It's almost as if some of you are rooting for China over the US.

 

[Tunescribe]

I didn’t want him elected and I didn’t like Hillary one bit either.

Same here, I didn't vote for either one of them.

I was optimistic when Tillerson was announced and it was all downhill from there. A couple positive blips along the way. The problem is Trump is bullet proof. A lot of people wanted the ******* president and they got their guy. @Jangles is a good example of truly blind and deaf faith meeting enlightenment.

The problem with Trump supporters' blindness to his inherent incompetence boils down to one thing: belief that he validates their personal values and worldview, including anti-intellectualism, anti-science, pro-fundamentalist Christianity, etc. Trump panders to that but it's not genuine because he has no ideology beyond selfish interests. This is a guy who grew up wealthy in New York -- who aspired to elitism, learned the finer points of con-artistry and somehow passed himself off as a good 'ol boy. At this juncture it takes real effort not to see through his charades and abject failures. Symptomatic of all this: List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia

 

[BTTA]

Here's a real time case study in why testing is so important.

My wife's organization has to stay open and provide public services during this time period, despite the fact that the city she serves is essentially shut down. If there were tests available, every employee would be tested on their way in to work, and on their way out. That would allow for immediate quarantine of employees when the virus first got detected in a work group.

The alternative is to find out when an employees shows clear enough signs of C19 that that employee will have already infected most of the other employees in the work group and many members of the public. At that point, massive resources will have to be allocated to tracking down those members of the public and dealing with that, and more importantly, the life and death services her organization provides will be at risk because there literally won't be people to do the work. This could start happening any day now. It is real, and it is here.

And as an after effect, her odds of getting it went up dramatically, and therefore so did mine.

That difference, proactive testing vs reactive containment, is the entire ball game in managing a pandemic.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Bolsonaro just tested positive for Corono. Wouldn't be surprised if Trump got it after their meeting last Saturday.

 

[Tunescribe]

Im not defending Trump. What this turned into wasnt anticipated by him.

But it should have been. This has been predicted by scientists for decades and there have been recent warning signs including SARS, zika and ebola.

But whoever gets my vote it wont be because what they did or didnt do in first few months of this crisis. If I used that as a reason then i wouldnt be voting for anyone.

Isn't competent crisis response fundamental to the job? We're talking public safety and health here, nothing is more important!

 

[italian pat patriot]

pls try to take NOW the necessary adjustments...believe me my dear patriots fans...

we still have to root for our team next season !!!

 

[PatsWSB47]

But it should have been. This has been predicted by scientists for decades and there have been recent warning signs including SARS, zika and ebola.

Isn't competent crisis response fundamental to the job? We're talking public safety and health here, nothing is more important!

One more time, im not defending him. So yeah scientists have been anticipating this for decades and still most everyone was surprised. Trump happened to be the president that didnt respond. Where was anyone else calling for school closings and quarantines and sports bans in In last 3 months? Based on that I feel pretty confident qsaying wed be prety much on the same place no matter whi was President.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

pls try to take NOW the necessary adjustments...believe me my dear patriots fans...

we still have to root for our team next season !!!

What adjustments do you recommend?

 

[Adam Seward]

I had nothing constructive to add, mods thanks for keeping the thread open.

 

[italian pat patriot]

What adjustments do you recommend?

1 - no gathering
2 - smart working if you can
3 - stay as much as possible at house
4 - wash hands many times
5 - keep distances...1 metre at least...
6 - masks and gloves are not a bad idea

THIS HELPS !!!!!

BELIEVE ME...

in south Lombardia these results are showing good results !

 

[Tunescribe]

One more time, im not defending him. So yeah scientists have been anticipating this for decades and still most everyone was surprised. Trump happened to be the president that didnt respond. Where was anyone else calling for school closings and quarantines and sports bans in In last 3 months? Based on that I feel pretty confident qsaying wed be prety much on the same place no matter whi was President.

Here's what I believe should have been expected from the richest nation on earth: a reasonable level of pandemic preparedness re. the immediate availability of test kits, planned hospital capacity and equipment required for emergency treatment (ventilators, etc.) -- all stockpiled and strategized. We have a gigantic military standing by with no immediate threat, why couldn't we have had the same for this? Like I said, we've had plenty of warning. Any president should be on top of this, including Trump and his predecessors. It's not unfair to hold responsible whoever is minding the store when SHTF.

 

[catent]

I would strongly recommend that certain folks purchase N Acetyl Cysteine, which is available over-the-counter. It's not cheap, but there's research indicating it's a potent antioxidant, liver protector, and that it works well for keeping the lungs dry/clear of fluid and mucus.

It's used in hospitals to treat tylenol overdose and is extremely successful in that role, which obviously isn't related to COVID, but my point is that it has clinical uses in a professional medical environment and isn't quackery.

Anyone who is immunocompromised or has preexisting lung issues, be it asthma, smoking, COPD, etc., this stuff could go a long, long way towards helping you fight COVID (or any other respiratory issue) should you contract it. My mom just stocked up on this stuff and sent some my way, too, as we both deal with mild asthma.

Beyond keeping the lungs clear, the antioxidant element couldn't hurt when battling off a virus.

Wanted to share a brief anecdote with the hopes it may help some people. This isn't a quack remedy -- there's some good research out there and it's worth looking into if you're so inclined.

 

[50-yard-line]

Im not defending Trump. What this turned into wasnt anticipated by him. Just take off you're partisan glasses long enough to realize that pretty much everyone else were caught off guard as well. They were calling Trump alarmist and accused him of using it to further agendas. I can only imagine the outrage had he banned European travel inDecember and January. This is what politics does and if a Democrat were president you'd see the same rhetoric reversed by each party. Ive been through Presidential election cycles since 1972. Aside from being more divided as a country, nothing has changed about the way its played. Dont vote for him. Im not. But whoever gets my vote it wont be because what they did or didnt do in first few months of this crisis. If I used that as a reason then i wouldnt be voting for anyone.

This isn't, and has never been about "banning travel" - that's the whole freaking point.

The first case in the USA was before that even started. 325,000 people enter the USA every single day via air travel.

It was, and remains, about testing, hospital preparedness, and messaging.

When H1N1 began (in the US, out of the blue), by the end of the first month, we had tested 1,000,000 people, and that flu still killed 11,000 or so Americans.

With COVID, the testing was far more desperately needed, and would have been way more important (see Singapore), because we know the highest-risk people here and so knowing that you're infected - knowing, not second-guessing every cough - allows for better decision-making.

Have we done well or poorly with testing? There are objective measurements here and you know the answer. They had a Boston doctor on this morning clearly frustrated because how can they begin the second "i" of isolation if they can't do the first, identification? California's Governor yesterday said that many of the kits they got, which was only a few thousand for a state of 40 million, were missing key pieces - like getting a printer without ink.

On the second part, getting money to the states early to ramp up preparedness - proper equipment for quarantining, for medical personal to protect themselves, for the tents we're only now seeing constructed and tested, for ventilators - all of that should have been done in January. All of it. CDC should have had preparedness teams across the country prepping for worst-case scenarios. They didn't.

The simple truth is that the states have done far more than the Feds on this, and the Feds have known about for months, and known it was here since January.

So tell me, objectively, how have we done on preparedness?

And thirdly, messaging...do I even have to go into it? Apparently human skin turns orange as it thins. Trump has downplayed, poo-poo'd, spread misinformation, spread division, and behaved inappropriately since the beginning. please don't make me find and post for you all the clips of him minimizing the threat and laughing it off, so say nothing of the horribleness of when he spoke the quiet part out loud of not wanting the passengers on the sick cruise ship to come ashore because the number would go up and it wasn't his fault. What kind of a ghoul worries about his PR "number" when he has 3000 people stuck on a boat off the coast?

So tell, objectively, if our leader has met the proper tone for this unfolding crisis.

If you ran a business and the guy in charge had gutted the protocols for disaster, refused needed help (test kits) when they were offered, lied to employees - putting them at risk by minimizing the dangers! - and all the rest, would he remain in charge of your company?

Trump was tested. He failed miserably - and anyone who's followed his life story would react to that with "well, duh." It's what he does.

This has nothing to do with conservative or liberal. Trump is not conservative at all. Trump is not liberal. Trump is a self-absorbed malignant Narcissist whose entire sense of worth is based on money. Always has been. Always will be.

Of all the people running this cycle, if I could wave a wand an put one in charge of this whole thing from the beginning, it would probably have been Bill Weld. Steady hand, tells the truth, manages properly.

Of all the people running this cycle, if I could eliminate one, it would clearly have been Trump, even more than Marianne Woowoo Williamson. At least she has a heart and a capacity for empathy.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Same here, I didn't vote for either one of them.

The problem with Trump supporters' blindness to his inherent incompetence boils down to one thing: belief that he validates their personal values and worldview, including anti-intellectualism, anti-science, pro-fundamentalist Christianity, etc. Trump panders to that but it's not genuine because he has no ideology beyond selfish interests. This is a guy who grew up wealthy in New York -- who aspired to elitism, learned the finer points of con-artistry and somehow passed himself off as a good 'ol boy. At this juncture it takes real effort not to see through his charades and abject failures. Symptomatic of all this: List of Trump administration dismissals and resignations - Wikipedia

Up until this coronovirus thing, the economy was humming right along. Your boy Obama didn't have a clue. Really, what did he accomplish? Meanwhile, Trump's economic approval is at 63%.

 

[Triumph]

The left wing media is in danger of overplaying their hand here. They’re playing it like it’s the Spanish Flu. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people will die, says they.

If this ends up with numbers in line with the swine flu (10,000 to 20,000 dead) then it sets Trump up to look like a genius for having done such a great job.

Rainman Biden is screwed when this thing wanes.

He used a potential crisis for this country for his own gain.

 

[Triumph]

Up until this coronovirus thing, the economy was humming right along. Your boy Obama didn't have a clue. Really, what did he accomplish? Meanwhile, Trump's economic approval is at 63%.

When the market goes up pathological liar Obama tells us its thanks to him.

When the market goes down, his myopic minions complain its because of Trump.