Colts Franchise Tag Freeney

[pats1]

I am extremely confused by this, and it has nothing to do with contracts ending after the SB or in March.
Franchise tags are for unrestricted FAs. The Patriots couldnt for example, choose to franchise Richard Seymour while he is still under contract.
Regardless of the date the contract ends, you must either be an UFA, or you are certainly GOING TO BE in the new contract year.
If Freeney is under contract, with the option to void, you cannot franchise him unless the contract is voided, otherwise you'd be franchsiing a guy under contract. The void is either automatic, a club option, or a player option.
If it is automatic, there is no debate, it is voided.
If it is a club option, they would have to void it in order to franchise him, because they couldn't franchise him without him being (or ready to be) an UFA. They couldn't franchise him then decide not to void.
If it is a player option, if he hasn't exercised the void, the contract is valid. There is no way a team can franchsie a player because he might choose to void his contract. It is his choice.

If I am mistaken someone please educate me.

I've been thinking the same thing...

 

[AdamJT13]

I do stand corrected, though it really is semantics.


Now, how about figuring out what Freeney's cap hit became now that Grant has been franchised. THAT is a more important number.

It's still $8.644 million (plus prorations) and won't change until the end of the free-agency period. If you want to keep a running tab of the top five, feel free, but it will change anytime someone moves into the top five, exits the top five (through renegotiation or otherwise) or has a change in their cap number. None of it really matters until July 22, though.

 

[AdamJT13]

I am extremely confused by this, and it has nothing to do with contracts ending after the SB or in March.
Franchise tags are for unrestricted FAs. The Patriots couldnt for example, choose to franchise Richard Seymour while he is still under contract.
Regardless of the date the contract ends, you must either be an UFA, or you are certainly GOING TO BE in the new contract year.
If Freeney is under contract, with the option to void, you cannot franchise him unless the contract is voided, otherwise you'd be franchsiing a guy under contract. The void is either automatic, a club option, or a player option.
If it is automatic, there is no debate, it is voided.
If it is a club option, they would have to void it in order to franchise him, because they couldn't franchise him without him being (or ready to be) an UFA. They couldn't franchise him then decide not to void.
If it is a player option, if he hasn't exercised the void, the contract is valid. There is no way a team can franchsie a player because he might choose to void his contract. It is his choice.

If I am mistaken someone please educate me.

The 2006 season doesn't void, just the 2007 and 2008 seasons. And the 2006 league year doesn't end until March 1. So when the 2006 league year ends, the 2006 contract expires, the 2007 and 2008 contract years void, and he becomes a UFA.

Voidable years are very common in the NFL. I don't understand why this board is making such a fuss over Freeney's.

 

[Miguel]

I wrote:

I am betting that in the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons, the Colts will not win more than 1 playoff game.



Even odds. Between $20 and $200 your call. Escrow at your option.

If you win I'll kick in another 50% or $20 (whichever is smaller) to your food pantry.

My question was unclear. Do you mean that in each season listed that the Colts will not win two playoff games or for those 3 years the Colts will not win 2 playoff games total??

Either way, put me down for $25.

 

[Miguel]

Miguel -
Something doesn't sound kosher there. Could you please explain?

If Freeney still had SB money that would have counted against the cap, would that not be moved to DEAD money? So, it would be his 8.6 million minus the 2007 salary, but the 109 million would be reduced by whatever signing bonus pro-ration was still remaining. Also, if Freeney was also counting in the top 51, as you imply, then he would not have displaced anyone.

I said later in the thread that my orginal post contained mistakes.

 

[Miguel]

Not sure if Polian knew that it would be over 100 million in 2006 and 2007, but I know for a fact that in 2005 that the rumors were out that the cap would go over 100 million in 2006 if an extension was reached. It was one of the carrots that the owners were dangling in front of the players.

Bingo!!!!! And yet the Colts were lucky that the CBA was extended.

If we had taken a poll of this board in 2004/2005 if the CBA would be extended, I bet that close to 100% of us would have said yes.

 

[Miguel]

My question was unclear. Do you mean that in each season listed that the Colts will not win two playoff games or for those 3 years the Colts will not win 2 playoff games total??

Either way, put me down for $25.

How about a bet on the 2008 FA class??

 

[Miguel]

My question was unclear. Do you mean that in each season listed that the Colts will not win two playoff games or for those 3 years the Colts will not win 2 playoff games total??

Either way, put me down for $25.

BTW, when I win , you can send the Bread of Life one check.

 

[dryheat44]

Moving the conversation to the playing field, does anybody else think this is a God-awful move by the Colts front office? Does anybody think that Freeney's skills are so valuable to the defense that devoting so much to your cap is justified?

It seems to me that they'd be better off letting Freeney hit the market, sign, promote, or draft a lower-profile pass rush specialist, use the money you save to improve the linebackers and DBs, and take the 3rd round comp pick next year?

I mean, we're talking an upfiled pass rusher with one move here. The franchise tag was dumb, and signing him to a big-money long term deal would be dumber.

 

[everlong]

Moving the conversation to the playing field, does anybody else think this is a God-awful move by the Colts front office? Does anybody think that Freeney's skills are so valuable to the defense that devoting so much to your cap is justified?

I totally agree. He had one tackle and one assist the final 3 playoff games and in the SB he had the triple goose egg no tackles, no assists, and Zero Sacks. Baltimore, NE and Chicago were using their tackle on him alone a lot more often than the past.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I know DE's who can dominate are at a premium, but with one Lombardi in hand and given how hard it is to repeat and his jawing about wanting to be the highest paid player in the league, and with a couple of those already on the roster and the last pick int he first and none in the second...I was surprised they went exclusive. I guess Polian has made a decision and he will remain a Colt for at least this season come hell or high water. I don't think you would have gotten 2 firsts for him this year because he didn't appear as dominant, but you certainly could have gotten one plus. I assume Polian doesn't want him fielding insane offers he potentially could find hard to match. Not that his agent doesn't already have an idea what those would have been. Perhaps this was also Polian's way of insuring Dungy would come back for that defense of title season, while he might have decided to retire to his ministry a hero and not hang around for what might have appeared to be a transition season. With the new stadium opening in 2008 the pressure to keep winning now remains since Irsay needs to put more upscale fannies in not just seats but corporate luxury boxes for 2008.

It would appear at this point he pretty much has to give Freeney whatever it takes to get a long term deal done or he costs a double digit cap hit. On a lesser scale but similar to the situation he was in with Manning in 2004. But since there is usually a method to Bill's cap madness, perhaps he would rather take the $10M+cap hit on Freeney in 2007 and save the cash hit (another $10M+ in bonus above franchise tag salary a long term deal will demand) for June and a few others who could then be signed to long term first year cap friendly deals. By 2008 the new stadium will be on line and Irsay should have increased cash flow available for a $20M bonus to one player. Although by then Manning's deal will really be screaming for it's big redo too.

Irsay's problem remains while you can play the cash over cap to lower the present day hits game almost indefinitely barring injury, you need to have the cash to do that. Indianapolis used to give him $10M per to help out with Peyton's deal. They won't with the new stadium in place. In fact they paid him $30M in "rebates" in a lump sum last year to close out the teams RCA Dome deal and clear the way for the Lubridome to be built, so he's on his own this season. He blew through that $30M quickly because Peyton and Marvin had a combined $19M in bonus money due, Wayne got another $13M or so in his new deal, and Mathis and a few others were extended. Winning a Superbowl generates some extra revenue, but much of that is league driven unless you are set up as Kraft was to create and market a lot of your own product (his media arm produces the DVD's and PFW and All Access and produces the pre season games, etc.). Plus it remains a small market as witnessed in the "parade" into a domed celebration that drew maybe 50-60,000 tops.

And if the cash over cap penalty we keep hearing about via Jonathan Kraft is in fact enacted the Colts may have to lay low on that front for a year to avoid losing future cap space for cash/bonus overspending.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

C'mon Mo, Peyton has to kickback on his advertising income, that's where the money is coming from.

I know DE's who can dominate are at a premium, but with one Lombardi in hand and given how hard it is to repeat and his jawing about wanting to be the highest paid player in the league, and with a couple of those already on the roster and the last pick int he first and none in the second...I was surprised they went exclusive. I guess Polian has made a decision and he will remain a Colt for at least this season come hell or high water. I don't think you would have gotten 2 firsts for him this year because he didn't appear as dominant, but you certainly could have gotten one plus. I assume Polian doesn't want him fielding insane offers he potentially could find hard to match. Not that his agent doesn't already have an idea what those would have been. Perhaps this was also Polian's way of insuring Dungy would come back for that defense of title season, while he might have decided to retire to his ministry a hero and not hang around for what might have appeared to be a transition season. With the new stadium opening in 2008 the pressure to keep winning now remains since Irsay needs to put more upscale fannies in not just seats but corporate luxury boxes for 2008.

It would appear at this point he pretty much has to give Freeney whatever it takes to get a long term deal done or he costs a double digit cap hit. On a lesser scale but similar to the situation he was in with Manning in 2004. But since there is usually a method to Bill's cap madness, perhaps he would rather take the $10M+cap hit on Freeney in 2007 and save the cash hit (another $10M+ in bonus above franchise tag salary a long term deal will demand) for June and a few others who could then be signed to long term first year cap friendly deals. By 2008 the new stadium will be on line and Irsay should have increased cash flow available for a $20M bonus to one player. Although by then Manning's deal will really be screaming for it's big redo too.

Irsay's problem remains while you can play the cash over cap to lower the present day hits game almost indefinitely barring injury, you need to have the cash to do that. Indianapolis used to give him $10M per to help out with Peyton's deal. They won't with the new stadium in place. In fact they paid him $30M in "rebates" in a lump sum last year to close out the teams RCA Dome deal and clear the way for the Lubridome to be built, so he's on his own this season. He blew through that $30M quickly because Peyton and Marvin had a combined $19M in bonus money due, Wayne got another $13M or so in his new deal, and Mathis and a few others were extended. Winning a Superbowl generates some extra revenue, but much of that is league driven unless you are set up as Kraft was to create and market a lot of your own product (his media arm produces the DVD's and PFW and All Access and produces the pre season games, etc.). Plus it remains a small market as witnessed in the "parade" into a domed celebration that drew maybe 50-60,000 tops.

And if the cash over cap penalty we keep hearing about via Jonathan Kraft is in fact enacted the Colts may have to lay low on that front for a year to avoid losing future cap space for cash/bonus overspending.

 

[solman]

My question was unclear. Do you mean that in each season listed that the Colts will not win two playoff games or for those 3 years the Colts will not win 2 playoff games total??

Either way, put me down for $25.

My bad. I was unclear.

In the interests of fairness, I'll admit that I meant TOTAL.

If, in the seasons starting in 2008 and 2009 they win one each, I lose and have to pay up at that time. If they still haven't won two by the time they are eliminated in the 2010 season, I win.

I'm glad we're both willing to stand behind our obviously very different perspectives on the Colt's future.

 

[solman]

How about a bet on the 2008 FA class??

Nah.

I think it's too difficult to measure in a bet.

The goal in a bet like this is for the loser to have to admit that his original beliefs were wrong.

With the 2008 FA market, even if we found a good proxy for how strong it is, both of us are still liable to believe that we were right.

I suppose that if the Colts go 2-14 in 2008 and 2009, and barely sqeak into the 2010 wild card, winning two games in OT before getting bounced, I'd feel that I was right on that one too (despite losing the bet). But its safe to say that's very unlikely

 

[Rob0729]

Bingo!!!!! And yet the Colts were lucky that the CBA was extended.

If we had taken a poll of this board in 2004/2005 if the CBA would be extended, I bet that close to 100% of us would have said yes.

Everyone knew the CBA would be extended. There hasn't been labor problems since the mid 80s. Few if anyone knew in early 2004 that the cap would reach $100 million in 2006. There was no new ESPN deal or NBC Deal at that point. The NFL Network was limited to Satellite broadcast and the idea of NFL actually broadcasting their own games was just a plan in the future at that point. I don't even think the new DirecTV deal was done yet. People expected increases in the cap with the CBA, but far more moderate than they really were. I think they expected the cap to exceed $100 million probably by 2010 at that point, not 2006 or 2007.

Polian would have been screwed if the estimates for the cap increase that were projected in 2004 came true. It was NBC making a huge offer to steal the week's primetime spotlight game from Disney along with the Sunday Night Recap show and the broadcasting of NFL games on the NFL Network (along with the the widespread adoption of the NFL Network which both happened faster than expected) that shot up the cap numbers. Polian didn't know any of these things would happen.

So to say Polian saw the cap expanding to $100 million in 2006 back in 2004 is just wrong. He probably thought it would jump to the mid-$90 millions and he would be in cap trouble right now if it did.

 

[Miguel]

So to say Polian saw the cap expanding to $100 million in 2006 back in 2004 is just wrong. He probably thought it would jump to the mid-$90 millions and he would be in cap trouble right now if it did.

With the CBA extension came the ability to prorate Manning's and Harrison's roster bonuses. With that ability it is my opinion that the Colts would not have reached cap hell in 2006. Heck, the Colts entered the playoffs under the cap by around $460K and that was after using the LTBE move on Matt Ulrich and probably Ricky Proehl.

 

[Miguel]

I'm glad we're both willing to stand behind our obviously very different perspectives on the Colt's future.

I just wish that I had bet this board that the Colts would win a Super Bowl despite Manning's contract. I would have had many takers and I would have cleaned up

 

[pats1]

I just wish that I had bet this board that the Colts would win a Super Bowl despite Manning's contract. I would have had many takers and I would have cleaned up

But what will happen if somebody bets that you are a closet Colts fan?

 

[Rob0729]

With the CBA extension came the ability to prorate Manning's and Harrison's roster bonuses. With that ability it is my opinion that the Colts would not have reached cap hell in 2006. Heck, the Colts entered the playoffs under the cap by around $460K and that was after using the LTBE move on Matt Ulrich and probably Ricky Proehl.

Maybe not cap hell, but Robert Mathis would be a free agent right now because they wouldn't have been able to give him a contract last offseason when he was a RFA and he would most certainly sign elsewhere. Either that or they would franchise him and let Freeney walk. They couldn't have afforded to trade for Simeone Rice because they couldn't have fit his salary under the cap during the season last year.

They wouldn't be in nearly as good of shape right now as they are. You seem to think that they could have kept all the same players they did without an extension. They would have definitely lost either Freeney or Mathis this offseason without a CBA and there is really no way to dispute that.

 

[Miguel]

Maybe not cap hell, but Robert Mathis would be a free agent right now because they wouldn't have been able to give him a contract last offseason when he was a RFA and he would most certainly sign elsewhere. Either that or they would franchise him and let Freeney walk. They couldn't have afforded to trade for Simeone Rice because they couldn't have fit his salary under the cap during the season last year.
They wouldn't be in nearly as good of shape right now as they are. You seem to think that they could have kept all the same players they did without an extension. They would have definitely lost either Freeney or Mathis this offseason without a CBA and there is really no way to dispute that.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.