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College VIDEO on Mac - the potential is clearly there - it’s frustrating


Just looking at his college highlights tonight comparing them to last year and what we've seen this season. I still feel like after watching both of these, we haven't seen his best yet. There's one play on the "National Championship highlights” where he looks right and comes all the way back to his left and makes a great throw:





Along with some things we haven't seen from him this year. Just a reminder that with a decent coordinator behind a good offensive line with some solid targets (that Alabama team was pretty stacked), he can get it done. Whether or not that ultimately can happen here is obviously the question. But after a solid rookie season, watching this is definitely frustrating. Unlike some of the others, the kid played in the SEC against solid competition. So it's not like he played against pushover teams.

Next year will obviously be a critical one for him ... but if it doesn't work out, it would definitely be irritating to see him potentially being this player again somewhere else. Watching some of the film breakdowns today of Sunday's game, definitely have to wonder what they'd be like with someone more competent handling the offense.

I watched him closely in college, and Mac was an outstanding college QB. Great footwork, excellent command of the offense and knew it in and out (and literally helped teach it to BOB, as BOB himself said), great accuracy, and he played near mistake-free football. His strength (and arguably his weakness, at least for some systems) is that he never deviated from the script, he did exactly what his coaches told him too, he hardly ever improvised or tried to make "something out of nothing" (he has actually improvised and scrambled much more with the Pats, for good and for ill). His coaches at Alabama were good enough to play to his strengths, they scripted out exactly what they wanted him to do and it perfectly played to his strengths, and he had a record breaking season (not to mention a National Championship).

I'm not surprised he has struggled with a rookie OC who mostly coached defense in the past this year, he is the type of QB that needs top coaching.

What has surprised me is all of his mistakes (after playing such mistake-free football at Alabama), I can only assume he is taking more risks because that is what is coaches are telling him to do. And I'm also very surprised (and disappointed) at the temper tantrums this year, after his freshman year at Alabama (where he had a bit of problems with his temper and getting frustrated with himself) I thought he had completely put that behind him, he was professionally very mature as a starter at Alabama. Hopefully with another year and some better coaching he will take a big jump next year, I still think that he fits the Patriots system to a "t".
 
He certainly is statistically, but obviously, the question is would he have that same type of production in someone else's offense? And big-picture-wise, will the difference be enough to make him want to leave? Obviously, if it's crazy, he's out. But if it's more but the opportunities and outlook are better here, would he stay? I guess that's the biggest question I have.
My gut feeling is that our own and other teams free agents aren't going to sign in NE until we have a legit OC. I think Bill needs to prioritize hiring a OC immediately after the season so free agents will want to come too NE. I personally would have no desire to play in NE if Patricia was in charge of calling plays and coaching offensive line. Watching Henry & Smith collide last game was a microcosm of our season. Hopefully Henry can play against the dolphins.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ian
I watched him closely in college, and Mac was an outstanding college QB. Great footwork, excellent command of the offense and knew it in and out (and literally helped teach it to BOB, as BOB himself said), great accuracy, and he played near mistake-free football. His strength (and arguably his weakness, at least for some systems) is that he never deviated from the script, he did exactly what his coaches told him too, he hardly ever improvised or tried to make "something out of nothing" (he has actually improvised and scrambled much more with the Pats, for good and for ill). His coaches at Alabama were good enough to play to his strengths, they scripted out exactly what they wanted him to do and it perfectly played to his strengths, and he had a record breaking season (not to mention a National Championship).

I'm not surprised he has struggled with a rookie OC who mostly coached defense in the past this year, he is the type of QB that needs top coaching.

What has surprised me is all of his mistakes (after playing such mistake-free football at Alabama), I can only assume he is taking more risks because that is what is coaches are telling him to do. And I'm also very surprised (and disappointed) at the temper tantrums this year, after his freshman year at Alabama (where he had a bit of problems with his temper and getting frustrated with himself) I thought he had completely put that behind him, he was professionally very mature as a starter at Alabama. Hopefully with another year and some better coaching he will take a big jump next year, I still think that he fits the Patriots system to a "t".
His temperament is certainly different this year compared to year one. Although I have noticed a couple of flare-ups as I've been going back through and looking at last season. He had a couple of moments where he waved his arms at McDaniels after McDaniels called a timeout, which I hadn't picked up on but obviously noticed it more after this season.

After thinking about it a fair amount the last few weeks during this entire mess of a season, I've resigned myself to the fact that this whole situation is going to be difficult as they start trying to get the position figured out. You're basically stuck in a minimum of 3-year cycles with each of these guys while you figure out if they're good enough to do what you need, and this year we learned nothing because everything has been such a mess.

But the fact remains, we don't have elite anymore. We're going to probably have to settle for someone who is average to good and can perform well enough for them to score points and not turn the ball over. Last season, that was the case. This season, it hasn't been. I think most of us know that if you divide it out, more than half of the blame falls on the coaching and their personnel deficiencies, while Jones shoulders the rest.

What we've learned is that Jones isn't good enough - at least not yet - to overcome bad coaching, which I didn't think would be the case at the start of the season. I thought with his intelligence, he'd be able to help mask any of Patricia's shortcomings, which clearly isn't true. Which I guess, at the end of the day, is to be expected for a 2nd-year player still learning how to deal with NFL defenses.

However, I agree with you on the fact that I feel like he's salvageable enough to play in this league. Again, this is a bad season to use as a benchmark, other than it's a glimpse into how he handles things when times get difficult, which isn't ideal. Maybe he'll figure it out and grow into a better player and maybe he won't, but history has shown it does take time and they will keep drafting people to cover themselves. We saw that this season and I'm sure training camp in 2023 will be interesting.

Still, rather than kick each one to the curb after one bad season, I'm hoping they can at least get some continuity and build out the rest of the roster, so they at least have a better foundation to work from until they figure it out.
 
Went back and looked at week one last year:

A couple of noteworthy plays:
full


Pressure in his face and a nice strike to Henry:
full
 
Another one with pressure in his face to Agholor:
full
 
Two of the above shots I mention because Mac used to stand in more under pressure. Obviously, that hasn't been the case as often this season and I'm trying to figure out when - or around when - something changed.
 
Are you willing to admit the same that you have gone too far trashing Mac Jones at times or are living in a world of epic delusion?
I've probably been too nice as often as too harsh. I will say the potential appeared to exist the first half of last season.

But in the spirit of reconciliation, sure, I've been overly harsh at times.

And I may be pushing it with this but are you also willing to admit that meme was funny and shouldn't have been deleted?
 
I watched him closely in college, and Mac was an outstanding college QB. Great footwork, excellent command of the offense and knew it in and out (and literally helped teach it to BOB, as BOB himself said), great accuracy, and he played near mistake-free football. His strength (and arguably his weakness, at least for some systems) is that he never deviated from the script, he did exactly what his coaches told him too, he hardly ever improvised or tried to make "something out of nothing" (he has actually improvised and scrambled much more with the Pats, for good and for ill). His coaches at Alabama were good enough to play to his strengths, they scripted out exactly what they wanted him to do and it perfectly played to his strengths, and he had a record breaking season (not to mention a National Championship).

I'm not surprised he has struggled with a rookie OC who mostly coached defense in the past this year, he is the type of QB that needs top coaching.

What has surprised me is all of his mistakes (after playing such mistake-free football at Alabama), I can only assume he is taking more risks because that is what is coaches are telling him to do. And I'm also very surprised (and disappointed) at the temper tantrums this year, after his freshman year at Alabama (where he had a bit of problems with his temper and getting frustrated with himself) I thought he had completely put that behind him, he was professionally very mature as a starter at Alabama. Hopefully with another year and some better coaching he will take a big jump next year, I still think that he fits the Patriots system to a "t".
Mac was touted as the most "pro ready" QB in the class but 34% (only Tua & Murray had 30+% in recent years) of his passes were at or behind the los. 60+% were either at/behind los/screen or RPO. He relied on a ton of PA. More than half his yards came off yac. Most (90%) of his attempts came inside the pocket. You look at what Josh did for him last year combined with what happened this year.

This is what I mean when I say the QB position has changed and traditional dropback passers are dead. More than a few posters here love to argue for the sake of arguing but it's as clear as day. Very few of these guys can just drop back and cut you up. The need scheme (misdirection, motion, PA, RPO etc) married with their strengths in a certain system to hit their peak.

They're not the system but the can run it. Similar to a baker and a chef that Mark Schofield talked about years ago. There's guys that can make something out of nothing. Make it happen with what they have. Then there's guys who can throw some stuff together given the ingredients. Follow instructions but they need the everything to make it work.

I dont think most pats fans or posters here had a good grip on who Mac is. Rather the idea of what is or could be. But Mac had his hand held at Bama, year 1 here and absolutely fell apart with it. Even though he was involved with the offense early on.

Bill is one of the straight shooters around. I remember him telling players "you're not very quick" or "fellas if they do this we're ****ed" .... He's not someone who ignores a problem away or pretends it's not there. So I cant imagine he doesn't get what's happening and what he has to do.
 
Watched the first three weeks of this season. For those who say Mac can't throw the deep ball and hit someone in stride, you may have forgotten the bomb to Bourne:

full


I will say overall, Jones played pretty well in Week one...better than I thought he did. The interception to Parker was right there and bounced off the top of the guy's helmet. If Parker had made the same play that Agholor did here:

full


...it would have been a moot point.

I think the biggest thing that stands out is that much like last year, he doesn't put the ball in harm's way or make many dumb decisions, which is sort of all you can ask from a young player. The Steelers' pick was a lob that he didn't get enough on that Fitzpatrick made a good play on. It is what it is. Yes, he did have that one play where he was flushed to his left that he got a little lucky on.

The Ravens game was obviously frustrating. The first pick was a bad one, with the second being a miscommunication between he and Parker. The last one came when he got hit as he threw and got hurt.

Otherwise, there were more positives than I recalled. Also, watching the first three weeks, arm strength certainly wasn't an issue:

This throw against the Ravens showed off some of that: (released at their own 29, caught at the Ravens' 43)
full


And this completion to Parker:

full


Definitely, some plays I had forgotten about. And obviously, he got hurt at the end, but that sum up the first three games.
 
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Again. Not making this out to be more than he is. But having dialed back my expectations, the question is obviously whether he's good enough to get him some more talent, some better coaching, and can he do what they need until if/when someone else beats him out?
 
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Lobs on the deep balls, I guess you can say that. But his arm so far in his second year in the NFL has been better:

20 "Air Yards":
full


Again, the idea was to have something other than a "he sucks" thread and try and realize that the days of having NFL royalty under center are over. We're going to be stuck with average to good for a while and how can we get the most out of what we have until he either improves or someone comes along or evolves enough to unseat him.

That is an impressive throw that I hadn’t seen before. That ball had some smoke on it:
 
I've probably been too nice as often as too harsh. I will say the potential appeared to exist the first half of last season.

But in the spirit of reconciliation, sure, I've been overly harsh at times.

And I may be pushing it with this but are you also willing to admit that meme was funny and shouldn't have been deleted?

I have no idea what meme you are talking about. I also do not know the reasoning for Ian or another moderator for removing it. So I cannot comment.
 
Totally disagree on bolded.

They were a play or two away from getting to the Super Bowl with not much at receiver. An absolute layup win awaited them in the Super Bowl had they beat Indy. This was the first big example of Brady making guys better than they were.

They went 12-4 in 2019. Brady left the field with the lead. Defense gave it up to Fitzpatrick.

In 2006, I remember that being an extremely frustrating year…we would smoke teams like the Vikings, but when facing an elite team..we could not score at all. We should have never won @San Diego….and Troy Brown saved the day by stripping the ball. Then the following week, we blow a 21-3 halftime lead…and at the game could not convert a 3rd and 4. Yeah, we might have beaten the Rex Grossman Bears…we had done so over Thanksgiving weekend that year, but do you remember Brady juking Urlacher? When Brady is running = Hard to move the ball through the air.

2019 was an extremely frustrating year. We were 8-0 before finishing 4-5 when the schedule got harder. Mitchell was hurt and retired. We tried AB. We traded for Snau and he tweaked an ankle. Gronk retired. Harry was Harry. We were relying on guys like Dorsett and Edelman was the only reliable guy we had on offense. It boiled over to the point where TB threw an interception to Logan Ryan to end his Patriot career.
 
In 2006, I remember that being an extremely frustrating year…we would smoke teams like the Vikings, but when facing an elite team..we could not score at all. We should have never won @San Diego….and Troy Brown saved the day by stripping the ball. Then the following week, we blow a 21-3 halftime lead…and at the game could not convert a 3rd and 4. Yeah, we might have beaten the Rex Grossman Bears…we had done so over Thanksgiving weekend that year, but do you remember Brady juking Urlacher? When Brady is running = Hard to move the ball through the air.

2019 was an extremely frustrating year. We were 8-0 before finishing 4-5 when the schedule got harder. Mitchell was hurt and retired. We tried AB. We traded for Snau and he tweaked an ankle. Gronk retired. Harry was Harry. We were relying on guys like Dorsett and Edelman was the only reliable guy we had on offense. It boiled over to the point where TB threw an interception to Logan Ryan to end his Patriot career.
Was a one possession game when the recovered fpick happened. There are no guarantees the Chargers score to then put the game away. Or, that the Patriots don't come back and win. Did NE get lucky? Maybe. Were the Chargers a better team? Yes. Maybe record wise.

That said, they didn't have the better QB or coach. The Patriots always gave SD fits. And SD absolutely owned Peyton Manning. They matched up so well with him. In otherwords, I believe SD walks to a SB win if they get by NE.

There were some iffy calls in the game against Indy. The Patriots number one safety was out. Peyton Manning abused the replacement repeatedly. I think Brady dragged the offense to the near finish line. This was the first year where it became very apparent that Brady made guys around him better.

2019 went sideways after Brown got cut. Injuries occurred. Had they kept everyone together, they are resting starters against Miami. Still a great D that year. Boogeymen and Jets game was memorable on Monday Night Football.
 
Lobs on the deep balls, I guess you can say that. But his arm so far in his second year in the NFL has been better:

20 "Air Yards":
full


Again, the idea was to have something other than a "he sucks" thread and try and realize that the days of having NFL royalty under center are over. We're going to be stuck with average to good for a while and how can we get the most out of what we have until he either improves or someone comes along or evolves enough to unseat him.
That's 53.8 mph. Is that considered having zip on the ball in the NFL?
 
That's 53.8 mph. Is that considered having zip on the ball in the NFL?
54mph flat-footed? It's not terrible. Puts him on par with other mid-tier guys in the league. (Kirk Cousins, etc.)
 
Went back and looked at week one last year:

A couple of noteworthy plays:
full


Pressure in his face and a nice strike to Henry:
full
Those two are 27.6 mph for the floater and 44.3 mph for the 20 yard crosser.
 
54mph flat-footed? It's not terrible. Puts him on par with other mid-tier guys in the league. (Kirk Cousins, etc.)
Cousins had a 59 mph velocity at the combine. Average is 54.
 
Another one with pressure in his face to Agholor:
full
That one is 39 mph on a deep out. Those balls can be easily picked.
 


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