DRAFT Cole Strange-Welcome to the Pats

[PP2]

52 pages. REALLY?????

Listen I was blindsided by the pick just like everyone else. AND....all the criticism of the pick is fully justified. BUT.... he's ours now and WHERE he was picked really doesn't mean a thing. I mean EVERYONE had Nakobe Dean going late first round early 2nd, and then we watched him slide all the way to the 3rd. How do you figure THAT happened?

The point is the Pats added 7 or 8 new picks and will do so again NEXT year, and we will spend hours before the draft trying to figure out who they will go with and then spend even MORE hours dissecting the results. But to what end? Come July a lot of us will trot down to Gillette and take a look at this team. And remember how this team is built and comes together (or not) will really determine how well they will do. All the talk and hand ringing means nothing to the ACTUAL results.

If 3 or 4 of these kids end up starting or playing significant roles over the next 5 years, it will be considered a successful draft, more and it will be a GREAT draft.

Bottom line, this draft is over who we took and who we didn't when we had the chance is now kind of irrelevant. Between now and July there will be a few more additions through FA. I'm hoping for Trey Flowers AND Hakeem Hicks before July, and questions about the DL will fade away, but we shall see.

It's the offseason. How dare you criticize the drama we are attempting to sustain and prolong until TC starts?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

****ing hilarious seeing the media use ****ing practice reps at the senior bowl as evidence of something

The SEnior bowl is the only time he even practiced against anyone who is even close to NFL talent, otherwise yeah he did great against guys who will be insurance agents this year.

Even the Browns are putting out video of their 7th rd pick blowing past Strange at the Sr Bowl practice.

Watch: Browns seventh rounder blow by Patriots first rounder

It is just one practice snap but fun to see Thomas beat Strange knowing their draft pick difference in the 2022 NFL draft:

sports.yahoo.com

You can’t say “they drafted him because he did so well at the SR bowl” and then complain when people use those clips to criticize the pick!

 

[*ChungFu*]

This thread has exceeded the limit for mentioning lawyers and insurance agents. Thank you.
Parking lot attendants are however; an unlimited reference, especially for describing athletic QBs who can't assess, audible, or throw to the correct team.

 

[patfanken]

It's the offseason. How dare you criticize the drama we are attempting to sustain and prolong until TC starts?

Well on that note I become chasten. But the only thing that matters are the facts. The facts are Cole Strange is a big man who is exceptionally strong, athletic and fast for his size. He, on the other hand, hasn't played against top college players and MIGHT take a bit more time to develop than say he played at Alabama. That's it. He's a great interior OL prospect who could be a fixture on this line for a decade. If that's the case great, It still won't stop the 2nd guessers who might look at a guy we COULD have gotten instead of him to complan ad nauseum.

Me, I'm just thinking about what offensive weapons we DO have and think about how they MIGHT be positioned to attack defenses. My first thought is that we can line up in 2 TE/FB sets and have FIVE legitimate receiving options on the field. Pretty exciting stuff.

 

[PP2]

Well on that note I become chasten. But the only thing that matters are the facts. The facts are Cole Strange is a big man who is exceptionally strong, athletic and fast for his size. He, on the other hand, hasn't played against top college players and MIGHT take a bit more time to develop than say he played at Alabama. That's it. He's a great interior OL prospect who could be a fixture on this line for a decade. If that's the case great, It still won't stop the 2nd guessers who might look at a guy we COULD have gotten instead of him to complan ad nauseum.

Me, I'm just thinking about what offensive weapons we DO have and think about how they MIGHT be positioned to attack defenses. My first thought is that we can line up in 2 TE/FB sets and have FIVE legitimate receiving options on the field. Pretty exciting stuff.

Ken,

FWIW, Jakob Johnson, upon being released claimed that the Patriots had told him they were releasing him because they want to move away from utilizing the fullback in their offense.

 

[rochrist]

The SEnior bowl is the only time he even practiced against anyone who is even close to NFL talent, otherwise yeah he did great against guys who will be insurance agents this year.

Even the Browns are putting out video of their 7th rd pick blowing past Strange at the Sr Bowl practice.

Watch: Browns seventh rounder blow by Patriots first rounder

It is just one practice snap but fun to see Thomas beat Strange knowing their draft pick difference in the 2022 NFL draft:

sports.yahoo.com

You can’t say “they drafted him because he did so well at the SR bowl” and then complain when people use those clips to criticize the pick!

Go ahead and ignore the actual football professionals who were AT the Senior Bowl who said he was very impressive, because you've got your 3-second video of him in a position he doesn't normally play. Which team do you work for again?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Go ahead and ignore the actual football professionals who were AT the Senior Bowl who said he was very impressive, because you've got your 3-second video of him in a position he doesn't normally play. Which team do you work for again?

You mean like the Rams people who were thinking he should be available to them at 104?

 

[patfanken]

Ken,

FWIW, Jakob Johnson, upon being released claimed that the Patriots had told him they were releasing him because they want to move away from utilizing the fullback in their offense.

I'm thinking that we will be using Smith and Keene in multiple positions IN the backfield as both blockers and receivers.

Actually just google or Utube some old single wing formations and concepts that use a RB tight behind the OL where they can be "stealth" trap blockers (also known in current vernacular as wham blocking). It also often makes it easier to hide as a receiver releasing. Bill as a historian of the game knows all about them. In fact the whole RPO craze of recent years goes back to single wing. miss direction.

It will be interesting to see just what kind of ball handler Mac is because that kind of misdirection requires good ball handling by the QB.

Again, and for about the 100th time over the last 20 plus years I've been a member here, it would be wonderful to be able to have a "chalkboard" mechanism that would allow x's and o's to be uploaded to a post, You would think that with current technology it could be done, Just sayin' @Ian

 

[*ChungFu*]

You mean like the Rams people who were fantasizing he should be available to them at 104?

They were trying to will it into a possibility.

 

[captain stone]

Just heard Chris Simms saying the Strange pick definitely was not a reach, and he knows for a fact that Strange wasn't making it past the tenth pick in the second round. For what it's worth.

Maybe Minnesota...their next pick after CB Andrew Booth at 42 was Ed Ingram at 59... So maybe they take Strange at 42 and a DB at 59...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I'm thinking that we will be using Smith and Keene in multiple positions IN the backfield as both blockers and receivers.

Actually just google or Utube some old single wing formations and concepts that use a RB tight behind the OL where they can be "stealth" trap blockers (also known in current vernacular as wham blocking). It also often makes it easier to hide as a receiver releasing. Bill as a historian of the game knows all about them. In fact the whole RPO craze of recent years goes back to single wing. miss direction.

It will be interesting to see just what kind of ball handler Mac is because that kind of misdirection requires good ball handling by the QB.

Again, and for about the 100th time over the last 20 plus years I've been a member here, it would be wonderful to be able to have a "chalkboard" mechanism that would allow x's and o's to be uploaded to a post, You would think that with current technology it could be done, Just sayin' @Ian

Thanks Ken. I knew what you meant without the chalk board. Although I do not remember the "single wing" phraseology, using Keene and Smith behind the line of scrimmage has been discussed in numerous other posts. I like the idea as it adds more receiving talent when used with Stevenson, and now Strong. I do not include Harris as he is rarely used as a receiver or White because it is still unclear if he will play again.

 

[p8ryts]

It's the offseason. How dare you criticize the drama we are attempting to sustain and prolong until TC starts?

I want more stories on Jimmy G's exploits off the field.

 

[JMC00]

here is draftek's G rankings



First 2 G were off the board. Smith, Kinnard and Slayer while listed as G were OT in college, draftniks are projecting them to be G in the nfl . So it came down to Strange or Parham as the next best pure guards. Pats liked Strange better. Now Parham vs Strange is another debate. You look at this and then what has been said about some teams having a 1st and some teams ready to take him in the top of the 2nd.

But yes because the Pats preferred Strange at G over 1 other G and 3 OT draftniks listed as G it was a humongous reach even with teams at the top of the 2nd having him high on their G board. Yep. All because people not employed in any nfl front office had put a number next to him 2 months prior. But look at draftek's ranking, even Strange was moving up their board \ pre-draft.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

here is draftek's G rankings



First 2 G were off the board. Smith, Kinnard and Slayer while listed as G were OT in college, draftniks are projecting them to be G in the nfl . So it came down to Strange or Parham as the next best pure guards. Pats liked Strange better. Now Parham vs Strange is another debate. You look at this and then what has been said about some teams having a 1st and some teams ready to take him in the top of the 2nd.

But yes because the Pats preferred Strange at G over 1 other G and 3 OT draftniks listed as G it was a humongous reach even with teams at the top of the 2nd having him high on their G board. Yep. All because people not employed in any nfl front office had put a number next to him 2 months prior. But look at draftek's ranking, even Strange was moving up their board \ pre-draft.

Interesting. The first four were all taken in the 1st round 24th and above, showing that OG's get taken a lot in the 1st round. Parham was taken by the Raiders in the 3rd, the other two were taken in the 5th-6th rounds. So if some other team had Strange 5th on this list, and we gambled and passed on him at 29, then he'd have been gone between late 1st and early 3rd.

The other angle on this is that we apparently liked him when we were sitting at 21. There were several enticing prospects available at 21 we could have jumped on, but chose to stay focused on Strange, trade down to 29, and pick up valuable 3rd & 4th round picks. To gamble again after you already made your money would've been greedy and risky. It was expert navigation and judgment by BB & Groh.

 

[JMC00]

trade down to 29, and pick up valuable 3rd & 4th round picks.

which that led to picking up a 3rd round pick for 2023 from the Panthers which could very well be a top of the 3rd round pick so essentially Pats added DeVante Parker, a potential starting LG, potential starting CB, potential backup QB, Carolina's '23 3rd rnd pick for a 3rd rnd pick and moving down 8 spots.

 

[p8ryts]

here is draftek's G rankings



First 2 G were off the board. Smith, Kinnard and Slayer while listed as G were OT in college, draftniks are projecting them to be G in the nfl . So it came down to Strange or Parham as the next best pure guards. Pats liked Strange better. Now Parham vs Strange is another debate. You look at this and then what has been said about some teams having a 1st and some teams ready to take him in the top of the 2nd.

But yes because the Pats preferred Strange at G over 1 other G and 3 OT draftniks listed as G it was a humongous reach even with teams at the top of the 2nd having him high on their G board. Yep. All because people not employed in any nfl front office had put a number next to him 2 months prior. But look at draftek's ranking, even Strange was moving up their board \ pre-draft.

I though Kinnard looked like he was playing in cement at the Senior Bowl.

 

[zydecochris]

52 pages. REALLY?????

Listen I was blindsided by the pick just like everyone else. AND....all the criticism of the pick is fully justified. BUT.... he's ours now and WHERE he was picked really doesn't mean a thing. I mean EVERYONE had Nakobe Dean going late first round early 2nd, and then we watched him slide all the way to the 3rd. How do you figure THAT happened?

The point is the Pats added 7 or 8 new picks and will do so again NEXT year, and we will spend hours before the draft trying to figure out who they will go with and then spend even MORE hours dissecting the results. But to what end? Come July a lot of us will trot down to Gillette and take a look at this team. And remember how this team is built and comes together (or not) will really determine how well they will do. All the talk and hand ringing means nothing to the ACTUAL results.

If 3 or 4 of these kids end up starting or playing significant roles over the next 5 years, it will be considered a successful draft, more and it will be a GREAT draft.

Bottom line, this draft is over who we took and who we didn't when we had the chance is now kind of irrelevant. Between now and July there will be a few more additions through FA. I'm hoping for Trey Flowers AND Hakeem Hicks before July, and questions about the DL will fade away, but we shall see.

IMHO, we Pats fans just need to get used to the Pats operating like a well coached and well run organization that doesn't have the luxury of the GOAT at QB. Brady was perhaps the best ever (along with Manning and Brees) at making his OL look good, the Pats could mostly trot out low draft choices on the OL that Scar coached up and find small, quick smart WRs in the later rounds or by trade (Welker, Edelman, etc.) and focus most of their draft capital on defense.

Now we have a very promising new QB who seems to fit the Pats offense perfectly, but obviously he doesn't have peak-Brady's ability to make mostly mediocre OL look good. So: their first two draft choices were clearly to help Mac progress in his second year, and moreover the draft choices mirror Mac's skill set instead of Brady's. At Alabama Mac's strengths were not making mistakes and throwing a gorgeous long ball with great accuracy and just the right arc and "oomph" to make it super catchable. Last year Mac didn't throw long that often, but IMHO it was to avoid rookie mistakes and because the OL gave him so little time (I kept rolling my eyes when reading the "noodle arm" narrative, obviously from those who never watched him in college).

So: in the first round they took a super athletic guard (athletic like they like their LGs to be) and in the second round they trade up a bit and draft the fastest receiver in the draft, hopefully to once again add the long ball to Mac's Pats arsenal. That part makes 100% sense.

...The part that was more difficult to understand was ditching arguably their best guard, Mason in the first place. I was wondering if some of the sharp eyed people like you (Ken) and BGC could explain that. I know that Mason was almost completely a run blocker in college but seemed to do fine at pass blocking at least for Brady. Did his pass blocking go down-hill? Or, did Brady make Mason look better at pass blocking than he really was? Certainly Onwenu fits the classic profile of a Patriot RG more than that of a LG. Let's hope that the pass protection improves this year with Strange and Mac can start throwing downfield a bit more, that would be a welcome development

 

[rochrist]

....

...The part that was more difficult to understand was ditching arguably their best guard, Mason in the first place. I was wondering if some of the sharp eyed people like you (Ken) and BGC could explain that. I know that Mason was almost completely a run blocker in college but seemed to do fine at pass blocking at least for Brady. Did his pass blocking go down-hill? Or, did Brady make Mason look better at pass blocking than he really was? Certainly Onwenu fits the classic profile of a Patriot RG more than that of a LG. Let's hope that the pass protection improves this year with Strange and Mac can start throwing downfield a bit more, that would be a welcome development

There seemed to be some feeling that his play had/was declining and wasn't worth the cost going forward.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes. And the Bucs (among other teams) were going to take him in the 2nd. The 2nd round was only 4 picks away but some snowflakes think that was still too soon. I'm fine with the pick.

There was a report last week that he definitely would have gone in the 40’s if not before then. Those two reports overlap by three picks, and the Seahawks had two of them.

After the pick, I looked at how many teams from 33-53 had OG as a need. I counted at least 8. As time has gone on, reports have come out that Belichick's statement that Strange wouldn't have lasted to their next pick was spot on.

We had Kyle Shanahan all but confirm that the 49ers had a 1st round grade on Strange.
There was a radio report that said that Tampa and Tennessee also had 1st round grades on Strange.
Jim Nagy, former Pats Scout and Current Senior Bowl Advisor, mentioned that MOST teams he talked to had at least a 2nd round grade on Strange.

Teams gunning for Strange besides Patriots: Tampa Bay, Tennessee, Seattle, Minnesota, 49ers

So, let's enjoy the fact that the kid is here and hope that he flourishes under Patriots coaching.

Let's hope for the sake of the entire O-line there is an announcement that they've added someone to either be the O-Line coach or they've hired someone to help Yates.

 

[nextsuperstar]

When there is a "reach", it means the media draftniks failed to forecast correctly. If they had known what they were doing, they should have said something like "we believe most teams had [3rd round] grades on [player], but some teams might have him as high as a [1st round] grade on him because [reasons]". When they are surprised (like with Strange) it means they failed in their forecast, and cover it up by blaming the team that made the surprisingly early pick.

Doubters would feel different about the Strange pick if the media draftniks had forecast it correctly.

It's even worse when there is a "steal", because in that case a draftnik touted player is publicly passed over by every team, completely invalidating the draftniks consensual hallucination. To cover their failure, they claim that the team that eventually picks the player as having made a "steal" when it was instead a massive forecasting failure by draftniks. The correct analysis would have been something like "we believe the highest any team will take [player] is round [n] but we also believe the player should actually be picked in round [n + m] for [reasons].

"Reaches" and "steals" are just indicators of failures to forecast draft day. True "value" of players picked and the true opportunity cost can only be determined years later based on actual performance, and even then there is uncertainty because of semi-random factors like injury and the difficulty to even retroactively assess team specific fit.

This is not to say the draftnik efforts are useless; they are hugely entertaining to us the public and provide us very interesting detailed introductions to players (even more so if they are team specific like BGC's) And the draft scoring game is fun just like fantasy football is fun.

But draftnik efforts are not particularly relevant to teams. I believe the only teams that factor in media pre-draft consensus about "value" are teams that have ownership, management or coaching running scared about fan opinion because of a record of poor actual team performance.

To illustrate the level of BS involved, consider Mike Mayock's fate: he was highly respected by the public as a media draftnik and hired because of that -- but was a joke as an actual general manager. Now he can't show his face in public.

This is a good point. Now it’s easier to call someone selected earlier than expected a reach because we don’t know with certainty how much they would have fallen.

But the “Steals” are with certainty ones that were projected wrong by the media. Willis was projected by some to go as high as second. He fell to 86. He could end up being a great QB, but no tell was certain of that as they would never have let him fall.