Chris Mortensen: Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report by 10/31 and 11/24

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Ken,

With all due respect, Logan Mankins is not an "elite" left guard. A very good one, a good one, whatever, but he is not, and has never been "elite".

And yet the Patriots' reported offers to him would pay him as an elite guard.

 

[Nikolai]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

And yet the Patriots' reported offers to him would pay him as an elite guard.

It wouldn't be the first time the Pats overpaid for someone (AdT comes to mind). I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with calling Mankins elite, because personally I'm on the fence about the matter, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the Pats' offer is, in and of itself, an accurate reflection of his abilities.

I do think the offer was sweetened a little because there was a bit of anxiety over what would become of the line should he decline the offer. As we've seen, the line has done reasonably well, so I don't expect the Pats to increase the offer to meet his demands, but what do I know?

 

[sbpatfan]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

It's a business. Mankins is exercising his rights under his contract and the CBA. why does that bother you so much that you would wish physical harm on his person?

BTW, I can see you don't believe in Karma...

1) Football is a game in which you physically harm other people.

2) Karma is convenient.

 

[Batman]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

1) Football is a game in which you physically harm other people.

2) Karma is convenient.

I thought karma was a delicious indan sauce made from coconut

 

[Synovia]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

I'll believe it when I see it. He's been incorrect more than a few times.


Mortensen has been repeating this for a long time for anybody that would listen. His logic is based strictly on the players seeking to gain a year of accrued service time to become an unrestricted free agent. It makes sense for Jackson, who will need to serve his suspension first, and then be on the roster long enough to have a 5th year.

In my opinion I'm not sold on Mankins either needing another year, or necessarily agreeing to play this season. I'm speculating here, but I'm very doubtful that Mortensen suddenly received new information today from, for example, each of the players agents that they are now planning on returning..

And I think I've pointed out that I think you're reading the rule wrong with respect to 5 years vs 6. I think Mankins needs to be elligible for 6 games or hes an RFA again.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

absolutely. there's no sign that he's a locker room problem. his teammates all understand the "business" side of this. as long as he's in shape and can help the team, i don't see where there'd be a problem. I think that people on this board are more worked up about his returning than the guys he plays with.

I'd rather not see Mankins on the field simply because if hes not going to be here next year, the playing time could better be used by Connolly or someone.

I just don't think the small upgrade between a midseason form Connolly, and a Logan Mankins who hasn't played competitive sports in a year isn't worth the experience that Connolly is getting.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

This all comes down to Logan Mankins not Bill Belichick or Robert Kraft.

With so many teams needing oline help, it's very reasonable to expect him to work out a deal, sign his tender, get traded with valuable compensation. It's in his best interest with a franchise/transition tag hanging out there. He is not cheese or wine that simply gets better and more valuable with age.

However, a guy who cares nothing about and never spends money is holding out for more money. Until that's solved, this will not be solved.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

This all comes down to Logan Mankins not Bill Belichick or Robert Kraft.

With so many teams needing oline help, it's very reasonable to expect him to work out a deal, sign his tender, get traded with valuable compensation. It's in his best interest with a franchise/transition tag hanging out there. He is not cheese or wine that simply gets better and more valuable with age.

However, a guy who cares nothing about and never spends money is holding out for more money. Until that's solved, this will not be solved.

Yup, it's all up to Logan, not BB or Kraft.
That said were he to report in November, BB would not be punitive to a player liked by his team. That would cause unnecessary locker room problems. There's always the possibility of an OG injury (e.g. Neal) where Mankins would be the best backup. It would be sad to work hard to make the playoffs, encounter a guard injury and watch Brady get creamed when instead we could have protected him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

And I think I've pointed out that I think you're reading the rule wrong with respect to 5 years vs 6. I think Mankins needs to be elligible for 6 games or hes an RFA again.

That seems to be exactly what the union is telling him...

Last month, the thinking was that the NFLPA would ensure that the next labor agreement modifies language that currently makes restricted free agents who fail to report by Week 10 in the current season restricted free agents again in the next season.

In past years, the provision was meaningless, since only players with three years of service (and an unexpired contract) counted as restricted free agents. Four years were needed to qualify for unrestricted free agency. Thus, if a restricted free agent failed to sign his tender by Week 10, he'd still have three years of service in the next season -- and he'd still be a restricted free agent.

This year, with the rules of the uncapped year pushing the threshold for unrestricted free agency from four years to six, players like Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson and Patriots guard Logan Mankins became restricted free agents despite having five years of service. If the next labor deal incorporates four or five years as the minimum seasons of service for unrestricted free agency, both players already would be eligible. But the language of the CBA regarding restricted free agents who fail to report in a given year would potentially prevent them from truly become free.

The fact that the NFLPA has recommended that both players report in time to get credit for the 2010 season means that the NFLPA has decided not to push for a change to the relevant language of the CBA.

Union apparently decided not to make a concession for two guys | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

And yet the Patriots' reported offers to him would pay him as an elite guard.

When you don't (at that time) have a good alternative, you do what you think
is necessary to get him signed. Would they have overpaid for him? Absolutely!
Would they break the bank for this "elite" guard? Absolutely not! And they
didn't! If he was as good as you think then the Pats should have been willing
to fork over Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)
and yet they didn't. Is it because the Pats are cheap (a popular lament) or
because his perceived worth outstripped his value to the Pats? I suspect the
latter. YMMV.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

When you don't (at that time) have a good alternative, you do what you think
is necessary to get him signed. Would they have overpaid for him? Absolutely!
Would they break the bank for this "elite" guard? Absolutely not! And they
didn't! If he was as good as you think then the Pats should have been willing
to fork over Steve Hutchinson-like money (adjusted for this calendar year)
and yet they didn't. Is it because the Pats are cheap (a popular lament) or
because his perceived worth outstripped his value to the Pats? I suspect the
latter. YMMV.

Kraft claimed that the offer was comparable to what Mangold got. If true, how's that not forking over the cash for this "elite" guard?

The reality is that we're working off of conflicting reports and stories from both sides that don't quite line up. Both could be in the 'right', both could be in the 'wrong', or it could be a 1/1 split. We just don't know.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

I hope Mankins breaks his leg when finally shows up, he's POS.

Yeah but how do you really feel? And Don't hold back.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

And I think I've pointed out that I think you're reading the rule wrong with respect to 5 years vs 6. I think Mankins needs to be elligible for 6 games or hes an RFA again.

Yeah, it sure does look like I put my money on the wrong horse in this debate, doesn't it? :bricks: My apologies, please disregard all opinions I have previously voiced on this topic. If the NFLPA is telling players they'll need six years to be an UFA in 2011, I'm not going to dispute that.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think it's pretty evident that Mankins didn't think the offer from the Patriots was quite "elite" enough, that's for sure.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Yeah, it sure does look like I put my money on the wrong horse in this debate, doesn't it? :bricks: My apologies, please disregard all opinions I have previously voiced on this topic. If the NFLPA is telling players they'll need six years to be an UFA in 2011, I'm not going to dispute that.

That's not what the NFLPA told them, jmt, so stick to your guns.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

That's not what the NFLPA told them, jmt, so stick to your guns.

Perhaps I should, but I'm getting the feeling that we'll never find out for sure. Seems to me that there will either be a new CBA agreed upon or a lockout; the chances of the NFL going through another uncapped season without a new CBA appear to be more and more unlikely.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

Perhaps I should, but I'm getting the feeling that we'll never find out for sure. Seems to me that there will either be a new CBA agreed upon or a lockout; the chances of the NFL going through another uncapped season without a new CBA appear to be more and more unlikely.

Or the union can vote to decertify... Their push to gain consent from the players for that strategy is interesting in that it would allow for play to continue uninterrupted but under rules dictated by ownership. If ownership decided you still need 6 years to achieve FA, and why wouldn't they..., and you want to fight that you would be forced to do that on your own since there would no longer be a union to take up a grievance on your behalf. I know some say Logan still has every last nickle he earned to date less his trucks... It would take that and probably more to battle the league through the courts for a couple of more years...

The union has pretty much told these 2 guys we can't guarantee you anything going forward so you best report...

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think it's pretty evident that Mankins didn't think the offer from the Patriots was quite "elite" enough, that's for sure.

I think he and his agent are a pair of greedy bastards. Then he said something unfortunate that means the Pats won't sign him for any amount of money short of a bargain now. The Pats get him for cheap for the remaining 6 games of 2010 and the playoffs if we make it that far. Assuming we get a 3rd round pick in return, that's not a bad price for a 'rental' of Mankins. What sucks is that we're essentially flipping a 1st round pick for a 3rd rounder in 2012. I think it's safe to say the Pats will be drafting a guard in 2011 though. That has been a need for years now and Mankins leaving just highlights the need.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think he and his agent are a pair of greedy bastards. Then he said something unfortunate that means the Pats won't sign him for any amount of money short of a bargain now. The Pats get him for cheap for the remaining 6 games of 2010 and the playoffs if we make it that far. Assuming we get a 3rd round pick in return, that's not a bad price for a 'rental' of Mankins. What sucks is that we're essentially flipping a 1st round pick for a 3rd rounder in 2012. I think it's safe to say the Pats will be drafting a guard in 2011 though. That has been a need for years now and Mankins leaving just highlights the need.

We'd be flipping a 1st for 5+ years of Mankins starting and playing at a high level and a 3rd. Never lose sight of the value already extracted from the initial pick. I would have preferred to trade Samuel under the tag rather than retain him for one more season at almost $8M. Bill thought differently, perhaps because he realized he'd already gotten excellent value out of Asante as a 4th rounder and he could retain him for one more year and still net a 3rd rounder in return. Remember too that Mankins came at the tail end of the first, and some felt he was a stretch and could have been had in the second (and was projected as a third early on). We took him in the first because that was where we could have him. Our LT for all these many years came out of the 2nd. Our present RT and projected LT of the future came later in the 2nd as well. They're tackles not guards. Our other starting guard was an UDFA who never played football in college. BTW as he lurked around on the PS and IR no one here dreamed he'd be what he became, so there is no saying when a replacement already exists on a roster. As Connelly has kind of underscored through at least the first quarter of this season... Maybe we're drafting for replacements in 2011 or maybe we're drafting for depth and more development.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Chris Mortensen Filed to ESPN Vincent Jackson and Logan Mankins will report to

It wouldn't be the first time the Pats overpaid for someone (AdT comes to mind). I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with calling Mankins elite, because personally I'm on the fence about the matter, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the Pats' offer is, in and of itself, an accurate reflection of his abilities.

IMO, the Patriots' offer is the most accurate reflection of his abilities. I have more trust in the Patriots front office's evaluation skills than this board's. Who else besides Patriots fans do not consider Mankins an elite guard?Since 2000 the Patriots have signed 100s of players to contracts. The number of players that were overpaid is far fewer than the ones who were underpaid.