Charlie Weis beating the "Patriots should draft Mac Jones" drum

[long distance]

No one is arguing a QB needs smarts, a strong work ethic and so on. That's a silly hill to stand on. I don't see anyone denying that LD. That said would anyone confuse Eli, Favre, Flacco or Big Ben as geniuses?

This guys is embarrassing himself though by saying "the guy isn't changing". I really don't understand the point of pretending it hasn't changed. Again every sport it's commonplace and accepted.

“The ultimate point being, looking at consistent organizations and percentages, you win from the pocket, not from extending the play.“

I get you, BGC - but this was his bottom line and this is the point. And of course this point goes beyond QB. They can do only so much.
While great athleticism of QB prospects or “arm strength“ is a nice tool to have it will not be decisive for their future in NFL.

ps
And while QB is the most important position - the QB centric hysteria of NFL is getting silly.

 

[moosekill]

Not really but please go show me who's better at evaluating QB's. Plenty of resources and guys to look at. Kiper, Brugler, Miller. Go back to 2011 and show me who's better.


I'm not reading any of this lol ^^^^
I hope you're ok, it'll get better. Or congrats. W/e is best suited.

I find that people who are insecure usually have to resort to insults when their positions are challenged. Obviously your mom forgot to bring you your hot pockets this morning. I am sorry.

Perhaps you can show me the athletic run first qb's that have won the superbowl since your date of 2011, which of course was the year that RGIII came out of college.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

“The ultimate point being, looking at consistent organizations and percentages, you win from the pocket, not from extending the play.“

I get you, BGC - but this was his bottom line and this is the point. And of course this point goes beyond QB. They can do only so much.
While athleticism of some QB prospects or “arm strength“ is a nice tool to have it will not be decisive for their future in NFL imo.

I was literally typing a post in my thread but let's have the discussion here.

Let's talk about "pocket passers" ....

I remember asking you this a few weeks and never got an answer I believe. This is open to the entire forum btw.

Besides Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson which QB's are beating you strictly from the pocket?

First off Brady is the only real, true pocket passer from that group? We agree on that?

The others will purposely extend and want to go "outside the pocket" to create and extend plays. So with all do respect you're wrong saying athleticism isn't a decisive tool. I mean your entire argument is hinging on cyborg Brady who will be out of the league in a year or two. Mahomes absolutely uses his athleticism, it's an enormous part to his game.

Can he and others beat you from the pocket? Absolutely! No one is arguing different. But you're kidding you are kidding yourself if you think they're are "pocket passers" with all due respect. It simply isn't true sir.

The QB position is so much more than her accurate or has a strong arm. It's a barter system - give and take. Some QB's will accept pressure in order to extend/make big plays down field. So again guys like Rodgers, Wilson, Watson will literally accept pressure, giving their OL heat at times making them look worse than they are. But they're able to do that bc of their athleticism. No denying the role it plays and how big or decisive it is.

Back to Brady and my question though. When he retires which true pocket passers are just waiting in the wings ready to take over? I honestly can't think of one?

But again who are these pocket passers? Guys like Baker, Jimmy, Goff etc certainly aren't pocket passers if we're being serious. They would get eaten alive if not for a supporting cast, having their hand hand, motion, PA, rollouts etc ... Again none are even close to real pocket passers.

Come to think of it the last few that were drafted highly are almost out the league. Rosen, Haskins
...
On the other Lamar Jackson, since everyone wants to bring him up has been the most consistent & best QB from his class. Let's talk about him.

Who's been more right LD when it comes to Jackson, remind me?? The guys who said he couldn't throw, isn't a real QB or Bacon? Also remind me sir if you'd be so kind?
Who has been the most efficient QB from the pocket in the red zone over the last 3 years?
Just one more sir. Remind me who was the most efficient QB from the pocket just a year ago? I. Can't. Remember.
I'm sorry I've been working so much lately. Last one. If you would LD, remind me which QB was in the playoffs this year and who had the better stats? Our QB or the guy we passed on, Jackson? It's coming back actually, there are some special people with enough fingers on one hand to count how many TD's Cam passed for this year. With comparable talent for targets I might add.

Again I'd love to hear thoughts on the real stuff. No one is denying you need to be a good from the pocket. The position just isn't the same and neither is the game sir.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I find that people who are insecure usually have to resort to insults when their positions are challenged. Obviously your mom forgot to bring you your hot pockets this morning. I am sorry.

Perhaps you can show me the athletic run first qb's that have won the superbowl since your date of 2011, which of course was the year that RGIII came out of college.

Yea I didn't insult you and I'm Irish. Insecurity comes with out first breath.

Wilson & Big Ben ran run first offense and absolutely we're more athlete than QB at the time they won.

Mahomes absolutely uses his athleticism to his advantage every other play, every game.

Jimmy G & Goff are certainly not pocket passers and have been in the SB lately. Cam, Wilson, Kap have all played in one recently.

You're focusing way too much on "run first" and looking silly in the process. Let's be honest you've never said anything insightful about the QB position to date. I'd love for you to copy and paste something worthy if you can?

Instead you say **** like this ...
"For some reason Brady and Mahomes are the one in the super bowl" ... Completely oblivious or ignorant to the fact that Mahomes absolutely kills teams with his athleticism. You think him and Brady are anything alike?

Brady, who will be gone in a year or two is the only argument you have and it's a weak one. Please show me these strict pocket passers that are ready to take over the league? Who are they?

Who's getting drafted #1 overall this year and what's his biggest strength? Its the ability to throw on the move to his non-dominant side. His athleticism is about to help get him #1 overall.

Ok after Lawrence ... Wilson, Fields, Lance ... All guys that can move.

And I just ate pancakes, eggs, potatoes, bacon & toast. You really wanna poke the bacon this early?

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Yea I didn't insult you and I'm Irish. Insecurity comes with out first breath.

Wilson & Big Ben ran run first offense and absolutely we're more athlete than QB at the time they won.

Mahomes absolutely uses his athleticism to his advantage every other play, every game.

That's why I said many times in the QB discussion I'd rather have a QB who can escape pressure and extend Plays with his legs. It is killing me in front of the TV when KC has Weapons like this and even if you cover them good Mahomes rans for a first down, that drives me nuts and makes me angry. It is incredible hard to defend that. Not just the Coverage but also your Pass Rush needs to contain him in the Pocket, that is almost impossible. If one of them would be a strict pocket passer like TB12, then Bosa would have sacked Mahomes 5 times in the SB

Jimmy G & Goff are certainly not pocket passers and have been in the SB lately. Cam, Wilson, Kap have all played in one recently.

You're focusing way too much on "run first" and looking silly in the process. Let's be honest you've never said anything insightful about the QB position to date. I'd love for you to copy and paste something worthy if you can?

Instead you say **** like this ...
"For some reason Brady and Mahomes are the one in the super bowl" ... Completely oblivious or ignorant to the fact that Mahomes absolutely kills teams with his athleticism. You think him and Brady are anything alike?

Brady, who will be gone in a year or two is the only argument you have and it's a weak one. Please show me these strict pocket passers that are ready to take over the league? Who are they?

Who's getting drafted #1 overall this year and what's his biggest strength? Its the ability to throw on the move to his non-dominant side. His athleticism is about to help get him #1 overall.

Ok after Lawrence ... Wilson, Fields, Lance ... All guys that can move.

And I just ate pancakes, eggs, potatoes, bacon & toast. You really wanna poke the bacon this early?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

That's why I said many times in the QB discussion I'd rather have a QB who can escape pressure and extend Plays with his legs. It is killing me in front of the TV when KC has Weapons like this and even if you cover them good Mahomes rans for a first down, that drives me nuts and makes me angry. It is incredible hard to defend that. Not just the Coverage but also your Pass Rush needs to contain him in the Pocket, that is almost impossible. If one of them would be a strict pocket passer like TB12, then Bosa would have sacked Mahomes 5 times in the SB

Absolutely.

Another thing people don't bring up or haven't noticed is it's a completely different type of QB than in years past.

Gone are the days where a QB can sit for years to learn a system. Instead the NFL is adapting, running stuff from college so the they have an easier time adjusting.

I'm not sure what people have against QB's that can move but it's a real issue for some. Weird considering guys like Young, Elway, Cunningham, Fran and many others could hurt you with their legs. So many are focused "run first" and missing the big picture.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Absolutely.

Another thing people don't bring up or haven't noticed is it's a completely different type of QB than in years past.

Gone are the days where a QB can sit for years to learn a system. Instead the NFL is adapting, running stuff from college so the they have an easier time adjusting.

Yeah esp to college coaches become nfl coordinators or HC

I'm not sure what people have against QB's that can move but it's a real issue for some. Weird considering guys like Young, Elway, Cunningham, Fran and many others could hurt you with their legs. So many are focused "run first" and missing the big picture.

Pass First offense is anyway more fun to watch, also triple threat is harder to defend

 

[long distance]

I was literally typing a post in my thread but let's have the discussion here.

Let's talk about "pocket passers" ....

I remember asking you this a few weeks and never got an answer I believe. This is open to the entire forum btw.

Besides Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson which QB's are beating you strictly from the pocket?

First off Brady is the only real, true pocket passer from that group? We agree on that?

The others will purposely extend and want to go "outside the pocket" to create and extend plays. So with all do respect you're wrong saying athleticism isn't a decisive tool. I mean your entire argument is hinging on cyborg Brady who will be out of the league in a year or two. Mahomes absolutely uses his athleticism, it's an enormous part to his game.

Can he and others beat you from the pocket? Absolutely! No one is arguing different. But you're kidding you are kidding yourself if you think they're are "pocket passers" with all due respect. It simply isn't true sir.

The QB position is so much more than her accurate or has a strong arm. It's a barter system - give and take. Some QB's will accept pressure in order to extend/make big plays down field. So again guys like Rodgers, Wilson, Watson will literally accept pressure, giving their OL heat at times making them look worse than they are. But they're able to do that bc of their athleticism. No denying the role it plays and how big or decisive it is.

Back to Brady and my question though. When he retires which true pocket passers are just waiting in the wings ready to take over? I honestly can't think of one?

But again who are these pocket passers? Guys like Baker, Jimmy, Goff etc certainly aren't pocket passers if we're being serious. They would get eaten alive if not for a supporting cast, having their hand hand, motion, PA, rollouts etc ... Again none are even close to real pocket passers.

Come to think of it the last few that were drafted highly are almost out the league. Rosen, Haskins
...
On the other Lamar Jackson, since everyone wants to bring him up has been the most consistent & best QB from his class. Let's talk about him.

Who's been more right LD when it comes to Jackson, remind me?? The guys who said he couldn't throw, isn't a real QB or Bacon? Also remind me sir if you'd be so kind?
Who has been the most efficient QB from the pocket in the red zone over the last 3 years?
Just one more sir. Remind me who was the most efficient QB from the pocket just a year ago? I. Can't. Remember.
I'm sorry I've been working so much lately. Last one. If you would LD, remind me which QB was in the playoffs this year and who had the better stats? Our QB or the guy we passed on, Jackson? It's coming back actually, there are some special people with enough fingers on one hand to count how many TD's Cam passed for this year. With comparable talent for targets I might add.

Again I'd love to hear thoughts on the real stuff. No one is denying you need to be a good from the pocket. The position just isn't the same and neither is the game sir.

Im talking about mind over matter not “pocket“ over “athletic“. So we're probably talking about two different things.
I brought up importance of ability of “winning from the pocket“ not winning with pocket QB whatever that means.

In this sense athleticism is helpful, mind is essential.
Lack of athleticism can be overcome in QB play (although creates problems), shortcomings in mind department less so.
Mind is also more sustainable commodity than athleticism.
(btw - Tom, as unathletic as he might be, was still able to extend plays - w pocket management/climbing, manipulating defences etc)


Sorry my longer answer was eaten by my comp - probably for the better


ps
I can certainly vouch you were one of very few people around NFL beating the drum for Lamar as viable NFL QB.
I still dont mind “passing“ on him though..

 

[Ivan]

Fitz and a Pick
Fitz and a Pick
We want our team to get Fitz and a Pick.

To the tune of 'Pumps and a Bump' by MC Hammer. I'm the new Wax Frog.

This is exactly where I’m at.

 

[Ivan]

Its weird, normally I feel like I'm higher on Jones than most but his hype is real rn. I really like Mac, just not at 15.

I could care less about the talent around him. I never understood that argument for any player or prospect. LOL I mean isn't that literally what scouting is all about? Isolating a player to see his game, traits etc? Idk, I'm only a dumb guy doing it from home but that argument always makes me laugh.

Anyway I really Jones but he has legitimate concerns that people either ignore or just dk bc they haven't studied him.

Footwork is an issue when hes forced to move, create another pocket or throw off platform. If his OL isn't very good or defenses are able to get him moving a certain way and he could problems putting the ball where it needs to be.

He'll lock on to WR at times. Like anyone else, college or NFL. That doesn't really bother me but his footwork isn't good enough to recover or again create another platform quickly enough and his upper half will lock on as well.

Needless to say when things break down and he has to go off script it's a problem.

Again I really like him but think top 15 is a bit rich.

It's silly season. And yea Bill takes recommendations seriously but Weiss is clearly in love with Mac. You note it down. Let Charlie vent if he wants to but this Bills final chapter. I hope he's making the decision through and through.

One other about it being silly season. I've been reading about Fields falling. He's slow, locks on reads. Just consider the source. OSU was asking a lot out of Fields. A lot and he looked pretty good to me. I'd bet anything he goes top 3-5.

you are as good a draft resource as there is, but if I’m reading this right I disagree with you. The Patriots are only taking a QB in the first round if they believe they can be a franchise QB. If they can’t what’s the point of using a first on them? So if Jones is there, and Belichick thinks he will become a franchise QB then just take him. As you say that may be “ a bit rich” in terms of how high he goes, but if he’s your guy then you don’t screw around trying to move down and risk losing him.

As far as Jones goes on one hand he fits the profile of a Belichick QB prospect, on the other Belichick has always looked to college to gauge where the league is going, in which case he may have already decided he needs a “ point guard” type QB, who can threaten teams outside the pocket, but he still demands they be good decision makers as well as accurate, And if that kind of athleticism is part of what Belichick wants now then Jones may not even be on their board.

 

[imahobgoblin]

I wasn’t the one that put Jones and the GOAT in the same sentence. Jones doesn’t belong there and almost certainly never will.

Love how fans think it will be so easy to find another Brady.

You are seriously a fool. That is the only explanation. I was not comparing the skill, you fool. I was comparing the athleticism. Lie all you want. I never said anything about how easy it will be to find another Brady. Use some freaking common sense.

 

[imahobgoblin]

I don't think it's controversial to not assume a player is going to be the next Tom Brady. And coaches and teammates ALWAYS talk up their own guys. Belichick and everyone you ask on the 2020 Patriots all loved Cam Newton too. Look, if the Pats believe in Jones and take him at 15, I'll be excited, because we haven't had a QB drafted as the definitive prospect since Drew Bledsoe, but I prefer to let his merits speak for themselves when they happen. It does the kid no favors to enter the league with half his Canton bust carved already.

Who carved half his Canton bust?

 

[sb1]

You are seriously a fool. That is the only explanation. I was not comparing the skill, you fool. I was comparing the athleticism. Lie all you want. I never said anything about how easy it will be to find another Brady.

Use some freaking common sense.

LOL. I am. That’s why I know better not to put the GOAT and Jones in the same sentence. So what if their athleticism is “comparable”? Jones isn’t Brady. He will never become anything close to Brady. His career will never will be fit to carry Brady’s water bottle. He’ll be lucky if he has a career like Ryan Fitzpatrick.

For every one thing they're similar at, Brady does a hundred things a hundred times better. So comparing any of their attributes or abilities is a pointless exercise.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

you are as good a draft resource as there is, but if I’m reading this right I disagree with you. The Patriots are only taking a QB in the first round if they believe they can be a franchise QB. If they can’t what’s the point of using a first on them? So if Jones is there, and Belichick thinks he will become a franchise QB then just take him. As you say that may be “ a bit rich” in terms of how high he goes, but if he’s your guy then you don’t screw around trying to move down and risk losing him.

If Bill thinks Mac is the guy and thinks he's going win a SB with him etc Then I absolutely think he should pull that trigger. It's wouldn't be my advice bc I view Mac like a Jimmy (QB2 for me), Carr (QB1 for me) type. His ceiling might be slightly higher. Maybe slightly higher where I had Tannehill (QB 4) & Cousins (QB3)
For the record I had 2nd Round Grades on all but it went Cousins, Tannehill, Carr & Jimmy. Looking back I feel like a 2nd is exactly where they should have been taken and I'm not saying bc I had them there. I have np admitting when I'm wrong or missed. Roughly, early second if we're trying to get specific but would you spend a top 10-15 pick on any of those guys?

I guess that's where I'm coming at this from. A value standpoint. These are guys that need a lot in order to win it all, win consistently. Now obviously every QB needs a great deal of help but there's levels.

Like you have guys where you win bc of them. Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes ... Systems don't matter, they are the system.

Then you guys that you can with. They're + players you can build something around.

Then guys that won't hurt you. They can run an offense. Talented enough to get hot and will flash every once and a while.
You can win with those guys but not bc of them.

Then you have guys who you win in spite of.

I like Mac a lot and will have a second on him but again from a value pov, they way I see it. He's not a top 10-15 pick. If Bill feels he's the man then he's the pick and I'm just giving my honest advice and giving him a decisive answer. Those guys hate indecisiveness or indifference.

As far as Jones goes on one hand he fits the profile of a Belichick QB prospect, on the other Belichick has always looked to college to gauge where the league is going, in which case he may have already decided he needs a “ point guard” type QB, who can threaten teams outside the pocket, but he still demands they be good decision makers as well as accurate, And if that kind of athleticism is part of what Belichick wants now then Jones may not even be on their board.

I think Lance might be the best fit for us. He's a hard worker, studies film and tendencies like crazy, is known as a big-time prepare nut. He has a cannon for an arm but also can hit short/intermediate stuff. More experience under center, turning his back to the defense than any of the big names. He's a pickup truck on the move and has great poise and awareness in the pocket.

I would love a NDST double dip with Lance and Radunz. Might be my fav scenario.

 

[masterbouncer]

I think Lance might be the best fit for us. He's a hard worker, studies film and tendencies like crazy, is known as a big-time prepare nut. He has a cannon for an arm but also can hit short/intermediate stuff. More experience under center, turning his back to the defense than any of the big names. He's a pickup truck on the move and has great poise and awareness in the pocket.

I would love a NDST double dip with Lance and Radunz. Might be my fav scenario.

I guess with Rd2/Rd3 picks right?
Since there are a few needs, I think quite some great athletes will drop to 15, unlike other years where the Pats drafted 30-32, this year there is really a chance a superior player falls to them (talking about LB/WR/OT) which you shouldn't miss on.

I am not expecting much of the draft, because BB does always unpredictable things and I am not putting much expectations into it, can't control it anyway so I won't let it control my mood as well. However I do expect madness here on the board during the draft when BB does not draft Player X or Player Y

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I guess with Rd2/Rd3 picks right?
Since there are a few needs, I think quite some great athletes will drop to 15, unlike other years where the Pats drafted 30-32, this year there is really a chance a superior player falls to them (talking about LB/WR/OT) which you shouldn't miss on.

I am not expecting much of the draft, because BB does always unpredictable things and I am not putting much expectations into it, can't control it anyway so I won't let it control my mood as well. However I do expect madness here on the board during the draft when BB does not draft Player X or Player Y

If we get Lance we have shot at Radunz. More of a pipedream for me. I expect Radunz to go first round, top 40 latest but we'll see.

I love draft night and wish it were two rounds instead of one. 1 & 2 day one. 2 - 4 day two. 5 - 7 day three.

 

[masterbouncer]

If we get Lance we have shot at Radunz. More of a pipedream for me. I expect Radunz to go first round, top 40 latest but we'll see.

I love draft night and wish it were two rounds instead of one. 1 & 2 day one. 2 - 4 day two. 5 - 7 day three.

yeah for me its difficult to follow from overseas, draft basically starts 2 AM local time and when the Pats were about to draft it was around 4-5AM and BB just traded out of first round for a player or additional picks
Day 2 draft just starts an hour earlier.
In fact from Europe you can only watch rd4-7 on day 3 when draft starts at 6 PM local time.

Where is Lance in your value chart? Rd2? I sense that some teams might even jump the Patriots to pick any of the discussed QBs even so in Rd2.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

yeah for me its difficult to follow from overseas, draft basically starts 2 AM local time and when the Pats were about to draft it was around 4-5AM and BB just traded out of first round for a player or additional picks
Day 2 draft just starts an hour earlier.
In fact from Europe you can only watch rd4-7 on day 3 when draft starts at 6 PM local time.

Where is Lance in your value chart? Rd2? I sense that some teams might even jump the Patriots to pick any of the discussed QBs even so in Rd2.

Yes almost identical with Wilson. Lance will be QB1 on my Pats Big Board.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I went back to watch most of the throws and runs Jones made this season, and I'm going to make a case for why he should be our target at 15. This isn't to say that other QBs aren't above him; I just don't think they'll be available (sorry Bacon! I know you like Lance, but I see him gone top ten). Jones is the only realistic QB prospect, as far as I can tell right now, who would both be available, and be worth the investment as a long term starter. I like him a whole lot better than Mills, Newman, Mond, etc, although those guys are intriguing late round shots as developmental types. The only one in our range who gives me pause is Trask, and I'm not 100% sold on him.

First, Jones is tough. He'll follow through a throw even when he gets rocked by a blitzer. He's in command. He's got a great reputation as a leader, and it shows on the field. He controls the offense, makes pre-snap adjustments, and stays cool under pressure. He's really consistent from snap to snap. Bad plays don't seem to snowball out of control and lead to more bad plays. He shakes them off and starts over on each snap. He doesn't get tricked a ton, although he's not foolproof. He's still young and has learning opportunities, but overall I really like his demeanor.

Let's get to the downsides. He's not the most athletic player I've watched. He could clean up some baby fat, improve his foot quickness/agility/balance, and work on his core and shoulder strength to generate more torque. He sometimes doesn't see lurkers -- if there's a defender on the far side of the field floating free and drifting into passing lanes, he can be fooled. His inexperience shows up at times, but could probably improve with more reps. That said, he's definitely above my threshold in each area, even if he doesn't excel physically. He's not a perfect prospect, but that doesn't mean that he's not capable of developing into a franchise leader.

I mentioned runs earlier. Believe it or not, Jones occasionally ran for first downs, or escaped pressure out of the pocket. It's not his forte, but he's at least as mobile as Brady, and looks a little faster. He's obviously not as polished maneuvering the pocket and resetting his feet -- I think Bacon alluded to his troubles with mechanics when he's off platform / out of pocket -- but for a primarily pocket passer in college with only a handful of starts, he's pretty good. Compared with Newton, we'd trade some rushing yards and touchdowns for a player who does a better job identifying pressure and throwing to his hot route (not consistently, but enough to give me hope that it's a solid part of his game), as well as stepping up in the pocket and evading pressure. He can slide around and make a throw. When he resets and pays attention to his mechanics, the results are quite good. It's still a growth area, but he processes quickly enough to minimize the drawback of his lack of mobility.

What about depth of targets? His completion percentage and yards are inflated by short passes turned into big gains by all star skill players. Yup, that's true. But . . . so what? His anticipation and ball placement were stellar on those throws. That's what stood out to me over and over again: quick distribution of the ball, excellent touch, and consistently giving the receiver a chance to run after the catch. Jones might only make a few downfield drive shots a game, and while he won't be confused with Allen or Mahomes, he has more than enough power for a 50+ yard throw. He generally tends to put the ball where only his player has a shot, too. Even 50/50 balls look more like 80/20 chances due to excellent ball placement. No complaints from me at all. Play designs took advantage of horizontal opportunities, and he executed them almost flawlessly. I can't knock the guy on that.

He makes good use of his eyes and shoulder fakes to freeze safeties. I saw a few deep touchdowns where he threw to a wide-open guy because of his fakes getting the defenders to bite. He didn't just lob up a pass to an open receiver who made an easy play for him; he created the opportunity, and each player mutually benefitted. Of course Smith and Waddle (and Metchie and Billingsley) were fantastic, but he also enabled them to shine by repeatedly manipulating the defense and delivering excellent passes. He's comfortable turning his back to the field for play-action, faking screens, etc, and still turning around and quickly and accurately acquiring his target.

He's got a great sense of passing windows against zone. He doesn't lead his players into huge collisions, at least not on a regular basis. He'll slightly underthrow a ball if it means that his receiver can stop, make a catch, and protect himself. True, he doesn't always challenge tight coverage, but I've seen him thread the needle more than a few times. He can do it, but he seems to prefer the more conservative play if it means less chance of a turnover. Again, I can't take points away for that. When he needs to be aggressive, I see some daggers come out. He's got a competitive edge. He does trust his arm, he just seems to prefer to take the more reliable play over the greedy play most of the time.

Don't take my word for it. Check out his snaps for yourself. This is a long video, and it's not all-22, but you'll get a better sense of the player by watching this than you will from a few twitter clips of highlights.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

yeah for me its difficult to follow from overseas, draft basically starts 2 AM local time and when the Pats were about to draft it was around 4-5AM and BB just traded out of first round for a player or additional picks
Day 2 draft just starts an hour earlier.
In fact from Europe you can only watch rd4-7 on day 3 when draft starts at 6 PM local time.

I feel you. Last time i tried to sleep during the Daytime and drunk some coffee. That worked fine but the trade down was like a hit in my face

Where is Lance in your value chart? Rd2? I sense that some teams might even jump the Patriots to pick any of the discussed QBs even so in Rd2.