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Charlie Weis beating the "Patriots should draft Mac Jones" drum

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BaconGrundleCandy

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I went back to watch most of the throws and runs Jones made this season, and I'm going to make a case for why he should be our target at 15. This isn't to say that other QBs aren't above him; I just don't think they'll be available (sorry Bacon! I know you like Lance, but I see him gone top ten). Jones is the only realistic QB prospect, as far as I can tell right now, who would both be available, and be worth the investment as a long term starter. I like him a whole lot better than Mills, Newman, Mond, etc, although those guys are intriguing late round shots as developmental types. The only one in our range who gives me pause is Trask, and I'm not 100% sold on him.

First, Jones is tough. He'll follow through a throw even when he gets rocked by a blitzer. He's in command. He's got a great reputation as a leader, and it shows on the field. He controls the offense, makes pre-snap adjustments, and stays cool under pressure. He's really consistent from snap to snap. Bad plays don't seem to snowball out of control and lead to more bad plays. He shakes them off and starts over on each snap. He doesn't get tricked a ton, although he's not foolproof. He's still young and has learning opportunities, but overall I really like his demeanor.

Let's get to the downsides. He's not the most athletic player I've watched. He could clean up some baby fat, improve his foot quickness/agility/balance, and work on his core and shoulder strength to generate more torque. He sometimes doesn't see lurkers -- if there's a defender on the far side of the field floating free and drifting into passing lanes, he can be fooled. His inexperience shows up at times, but could probably improve with more reps. That said, he's definitely above my threshold in each area, even if he doesn't excel physically. He's not a perfect prospect, but that doesn't mean that he's not capable of developing into a franchise leader.

I mentioned runs earlier. Believe it or not, Jones occasionally ran for first downs, or escaped pressure out of the pocket. It's not his forte, but he's at least as mobile as Brady, and looks a little faster. He's obviously not as polished maneuvering the pocket and resetting his feet -- I think Bacon alluded to his troubles with mechanics when he's off platform / out of pocket -- but for a primarily pocket passer in college with only a handful of starts, he's pretty good. Compared with Newton, we'd trade some rushing yards and touchdowns for a player who does a better job identifying pressure and throwing to his hot route (not consistently, but enough to give me hope that it's a solid part of his game), as well as stepping up in the pocket and evading pressure. He can slide around and make a throw. When he resets and pays attention to his mechanics, the results are quite good. It's still a growth area, but he processes quickly enough to minimize the drawback of his lack of mobility.

What about depth of targets? His completion percentage and yards are inflated by short passes turned into big gains by all star skill players. Yup, that's true. But . . . so what? His anticipation and ball placement were stellar on those throws. That's what stood out to me over and over again: quick distribution of the ball, excellent touch, and consistently giving the receiver a chance to run after the catch. Jones might only make a few downfield drive shots a game, and while he won't be confused with Allen or Mahomes, he has more than enough power for a 50+ yard throw. He generally tends to put the ball where only his player has a shot, too. Even 50/50 balls look more like 80/20 chances due to excellent ball placement. No complaints from me at all. Play designs took advantage of horizontal opportunities, and he executed them almost flawlessly. I can't knock the guy on that.

He makes good use of his eyes and shoulder fakes to freeze safeties. I saw a few deep touchdowns where he threw to a wide-open guy because of his fakes getting the defenders to bite. He didn't just lob up a pass to an open receiver who made an easy play for him; he created the opportunity, and each player mutually benefitted. Of course Smith and Waddle (and Metchie and Billingsley) were fantastic, but he also enabled them to shine by repeatedly manipulating the defense and delivering excellent passes. He's comfortable turning his back to the field for play-action, faking screens, etc, and still turning around and quickly and accurately acquiring his target.

He's got a great sense of passing windows against zone. He doesn't lead his players into huge collisions, at least not on a regular basis. He'll slightly underthrow a ball if it means that his receiver can stop, make a catch, and protect himself. True, he doesn't always challenge tight coverage, but I've seen him thread the needle more than a few times. He can do it, but he seems to prefer the more conservative play if it means less chance of a turnover. Again, I can't take points away for that. When he needs to be aggressive, I see some daggers come out. He's got a competitive edge. He does trust his arm, he just seems to prefer to take the more reliable play over the greedy play most of the time.

Don't take my word for it. Check out his snaps for yourself. This is a long video, and it's not all-22, but you'll get a better sense of the player by watching this than you will from a few twitter clips of highlights.

Agree with most everything you've said except I think Mills is closer to Jones and think his footwork needs more work to handle NFL rushes under pressure. At times it's not slow but not fast enough. People want to bring up his weapons but that's missing the point big time. His OL had a huge advantage every single game even in that conference. That is Bamas biggest strength. Their lines. That gap won't be nearly as wide in the NFL and he'll be tested. His footwork is good, + in good conditions but when the break happens he's in big trouble. I also don't mind QBs staring down the occasional target but he'll give it away with his movements or mechanics as well.

I mean I really like him. He's been on my board for months. I just don't think the value lines up but I wouldn't hate it. Just not my first approach with that pick.

Then of course you're stuck with building around him. That's an enormous task bc we're thin and he absolutely, without a doubt needs + players around him, solid running game to succeed.

He absolutely can steal some yards even though he's not an athlete like that. That is true if a lane opens up with some grass in front of him.

I like him but not at 15. I wouldn't mind picking up an extra pick but if hes the guy you don't mess around.
Unfortunately him and Brady look like a perfect match and we might have to take him top ten.
Kiper has him going top ten and I've seen him mocked there by others.
IMG_20210225_110527.jpg
 

long distance

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I went back to watch most of the throws and runs Jones made this season, and I'm going to make a case for why he should be our target at 15. This isn't to say that other QBs aren't above him; I just don't think they'll be available (sorry Bacon! I know you like Lance, but I see him gone top ten). Jones is the only realistic QB prospect, as far as I can tell right now, who would both be available, and be worth the investment as a long term starter. I like him a whole lot better than Mills, Newman, Mond, etc, although those guys are intriguing late round shots as developmental types. The only one in our range who gives me pause is Trask, and I'm not 100% sold on him.

First, Jones is tough. He'll follow through a throw even when he gets rocked by a blitzer. He's in command. He's got a great reputation as a leader, and it shows on the field. He controls the offense, makes pre-snap adjustments, and stays cool under pressure. He's really consistent from snap to snap. Bad plays don't seem to snowball out of control and lead to more bad plays. He shakes them off and starts over on each snap. He doesn't get tricked a ton, although he's not foolproof. He's still young and has learning opportunities, but overall I really like his demeanor.

Let's get to the downsides. He's not the most athletic player I've watched. He could clean up some baby fat, improve his foot quickness/agility/balance, and work on his core and shoulder strength to generate more torque. He sometimes doesn't see lurkers -- if there's a defender on the far side of the field floating free and drifting into passing lanes, he can be fooled. His inexperience shows up at times, but could probably improve with more reps. That said, he's definitely above my threshold in each area, even if he doesn't excel physically. He's not a perfect prospect, but that doesn't mean that he's not capable of developing into a franchise leader.

I mentioned runs earlier. Believe it or not, Jones occasionally ran for first downs, or escaped pressure out of the pocket. It's not his forte, but he's at least as mobile as Brady, and looks a little faster. He's obviously not as polished maneuvering the pocket and resetting his feet -- I think Bacon alluded to his troubles with mechanics when he's off platform / out of pocket -- but for a primarily pocket passer in college with only a handful of starts, he's pretty good. Compared with Newton, we'd trade some rushing yards and touchdowns for a player who does a better job identifying pressure and throwing to his hot route (not consistently, but enough to give me hope that it's a solid part of his game), as well as stepping up in the pocket and evading pressure. He can slide around and make a throw. When he resets and pays attention to his mechanics, the results are quite good. It's still a growth area, but he processes quickly enough to minimize the drawback of his lack of mobility.

What about depth of targets? His completion percentage and yards are inflated by short passes turned into big gains by all star skill players. Yup, that's true. But . . . so what? His anticipation and ball placement were stellar on those throws. That's what stood out to me over and over again: quick distribution of the ball, excellent touch, and consistently giving the receiver a chance to run after the catch. Jones might only make a few downfield drive shots a game, and while he won't be confused with Allen or Mahomes, he has more than enough power for a 50+ yard throw. He generally tends to put the ball where only his player has a shot, too. Even 50/50 balls look more like 80/20 chances due to excellent ball placement. No complaints from me at all. Play designs took advantage of horizontal opportunities, and he executed them almost flawlessly. I can't knock the guy on that.

He makes good use of his eyes and shoulder fakes to freeze safeties. I saw a few deep touchdowns where he threw to a wide-open guy because of his fakes getting the defenders to bite. He didn't just lob up a pass to an open receiver who made an easy play for him; he created the opportunity, and each player mutually benefitted. Of course Smith and Waddle (and Metchie and Billingsley) were fantastic, but he also enabled them to shine by repeatedly manipulating the defense and delivering excellent passes. He's comfortable turning his back to the field for play-action, faking screens, etc, and still turning around and quickly and accurately acquiring his target.

He's got a great sense of passing windows against zone. He doesn't lead his players into huge collisions, at least not on a regular basis. He'll slightly underthrow a ball if it means that his receiver can stop, make a catch, and protect himself. True, he doesn't always challenge tight coverage, but I've seen him thread the needle more than a few times. He can do it, but he seems to prefer the more conservative play if it means less chance of a turnover. Again, I can't take points away for that. When he needs to be aggressive, I see some daggers come out. He's got a competitive edge. He does trust his arm, he just seems to prefer to take the more reliable play over the greedy play most of the time.

Don't take my word for it. Check out his snaps for yourself. This is a long video, and it's not all-22, but you'll get a better sense of the player by watching this than you will from a few twitter clips of highlights.



 

Sliplady

On the Game Day Roster
LOL. I am. That’s why I know better not to put the GOAT and Jones in the same sentence. So what if their athleticism is “comparable”? Jones isn’t Brady. He will never become anything close to Brady. His career will never will be fit to carry Brady’s water bottle. He’ll be lucky if he has a career like Ryan Fitzpatrick.

For every one thing they're similar at, Brady does a hundred things a hundred times better. So comparing any of their attributes or abilities is a pointless exercise.

That is not the debate, you idiot. It was a comparison of athleticism. Damn, you are stupid. No one said Jones is Brady. Jeez.
 

Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
I went back to watch most of the throws and runs Jones made this season, and I'm going to make a case for why he should be our target at 15. This isn't to say that other QBs aren't above him; I just don't think they'll be available (sorry Bacon! I know you like Lance, but I see him gone top ten). Jones is the only realistic QB prospect, as far as I can tell right now, who would both be available, and be worth the investment as a long term starter. I like him a whole lot better than Mills, Newman, Mond, etc, although those guys are intriguing late round shots as developmental types. The only one in our range who gives me pause is Trask, and I'm not 100% sold on him.

First, Jones is tough. He'll follow through a throw even when he gets rocked by a blitzer. He's in command. He's got a great reputation as a leader, and it shows on the field. He controls the offense, makes pre-snap adjustments, and stays cool under pressure. He's really consistent from snap to snap. Bad plays don't seem to snowball out of control and lead to more bad plays. He shakes them off and starts over on each snap. He doesn't get tricked a ton, although he's not foolproof. He's still young and has learning opportunities, but overall I really like his demeanor.

Let's get to the downsides. He's not the most athletic player I've watched. He could clean up some baby fat, improve his foot quickness/agility/balance, and work on his core and shoulder strength to generate more torque. He sometimes doesn't see lurkers -- if there's a defender on the far side of the field floating free and drifting into passing lanes, he can be fooled. His inexperience shows up at times, but could probably improve with more reps. That said, he's definitely above my threshold in each area, even if he doesn't excel physically. He's not a perfect prospect, but that doesn't mean that he's not capable of developing into a franchise leader.

I mentioned runs earlier. Believe it or not, Jones occasionally ran for first downs, or escaped pressure out of the pocket. It's not his forte, but he's at least as mobile as Brady, and looks a little faster. He's obviously not as polished maneuvering the pocket and resetting his feet -- I think Bacon alluded to his troubles with mechanics when he's off platform / out of pocket -- but for a primarily pocket passer in college with only a handful of starts, he's pretty good. Compared with Newton, we'd trade some rushing yards and touchdowns for a player who does a better job identifying pressure and throwing to his hot route (not consistently, but enough to give me hope that it's a solid part of his game), as well as stepping up in the pocket and evading pressure. He can slide around and make a throw. When he resets and pays attention to his mechanics, the results are quite good. It's still a growth area, but he processes quickly enough to minimize the drawback of his lack of mobility.

What about depth of targets? His completion percentage and yards are inflated by short passes turned into big gains by all star skill players. Yup, that's true. But . . . so what? His anticipation and ball placement were stellar on those throws. That's what stood out to me over and over again: quick distribution of the ball, excellent touch, and consistently giving the receiver a chance to run after the catch. Jones might only make a few downfield drive shots a game, and while he won't be confused with Allen or Mahomes, he has more than enough power for a 50+ yard throw. He generally tends to put the ball where only his player has a shot, too. Even 50/50 balls look more like 80/20 chances due to excellent ball placement. No complaints from me at all. Play designs took advantage of horizontal opportunities, and he executed them almost flawlessly. I can't knock the guy on that.

He makes good use of his eyes and shoulder fakes to freeze safeties. I saw a few deep touchdowns where he threw to a wide-open guy because of his fakes getting the defenders to bite. He didn't just lob up a pass to an open receiver who made an easy play for him; he created the opportunity, and each player mutually benefitted. Of course Smith and Waddle (and Metchie and Billingsley) were fantastic, but he also enabled them to shine by repeatedly manipulating the defense and delivering excellent passes. He's comfortable turning his back to the field for play-action, faking screens, etc, and still turning around and quickly and accurately acquiring his target.

He's got a great sense of passing windows against zone. He doesn't lead his players into huge collisions, at least not on a regular basis. He'll slightly underthrow a ball if it means that his receiver can stop, make a catch, and protect himself. True, he doesn't always challenge tight coverage, but I've seen him thread the needle more than a few times. He can do it, but he seems to prefer the more conservative play if it means less chance of a turnover. Again, I can't take points away for that. When he needs to be aggressive, I see some daggers come out. He's got a competitive edge. He does trust his arm, he just seems to prefer to take the more reliable play over the greedy play most of the time.

Don't take my word for it. Check out his snaps for yourself. This is a long video, and it's not all-22, but you'll get a better sense of the player by watching this than you will from a few twitter clips of highlights.


great job on this.

The one point I will add is this.

1.) most of Jones’s throw are single read throws. And those nfl receivers he was throwing to, were incredibly wide open!

2.) single read throws, Jones was over 80 percent completion rate.

3.) read progression. When Jones has to go to his second or third reads, his completion rate goes down to a little more than 50 percent despite having over 5 seconds to get the ball out.

in the nfl, the windows are really tight and time is of the essence!

my questions with Jones have nothing to do with athleticism. It has to do with can he throw in tight windows in around 2 seconds or so and why is he so inaccurate on second and third read throws.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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great job on this.

The one point I will add is this.

1.) most of Jones’s throw are single read throws. And those nfl receivers he was throwing to, were incredibly wide open!

2.) single read throws, Jones was over 80 percent completion rate.

3.) read progression. When Jones has to go to his second or third reads, his completion rate goes down to a little more than 50 percent despite having over 5 seconds to get the ball out.

in the nfl, the windows are really tight and time is of the essence!

my questions with Jones have nothing to do with athleticism. It has to do with can he throw in tight windows in around 2 seconds or so and why is he so inaccurate on second and third read throws.
I mentioned this like 3 post up but it's a combo of slow footwork to reset and he'll lock onto that target. Idc if QB's stare down a target once and a while but his upper body gives it away as well as his eyes.
 

DropKickFlutie

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
great job on this.

The one point I will add is this.

1.) most of Jones’s throw are single read throws. And those nfl receivers he was throwing to, were incredibly wide open!

2.) single read throws, Jones was over 80 percent completion rate.

3.) read progression. When Jones has to go to his second or third reads, his completion rate goes down to a little more than 50 percent despite having over 5 seconds to get the ball out.

in the nfl, the windows are really tight and time is of the essence!

my questions with Jones have nothing to do with athleticism. It has to do with can he throw in tight windows in around 2 seconds or so and why is he so inaccurate on second and third read throws.

Just curious but where do you get stats on a guy's completion rate on 2nd and 3rd read throws ??

Also if a guy averages a 77% completion rate for an entire season, which is absurd, even better than when Burrow and Tua were throwing to all star teammates, why does this assume all his completions were first reads ?? There is video on every throw he made this season and it's obvious he made smart check down throws a lot as well. So is this 2nd and 3rd read throw stat totally bogus ???

.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Just curious but where do you get stats on a guy's completion rate on 2nd and 3rd read throws ??

Also if a guy averages a 77% completion rate for an entire season, which is absurd, even better than when Burrow and Tua were throwing to all star teammates, why does this assume all his completions were first reads ?? There is video on every throw he made this season and it's obvious he made smart check down throws a lot as well. So is this 2nd and 3rd read throw stat totally bogus ???

.
People actually watch tape and chart that stuff.

Still waiting on an answer as why you think Burrow and Jones are comparable? And why you think the Cousins comp is unfounded.
 

reamer

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
People actually watch tape and chart that stuff.

Still waiting on an answer as why you think Burrow and Jones are comparable? And why you think the Cousins comp is unfounded.

I like the Cousins comp. I also think we could do A LOT worse than a Cousins clone at QB next year. Not Brady, but a huge upgrade from Newton (who was so fun when he was playing well; sad how he fell apart).
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I like the Cousins comp. I also think we could do A LOT worse than a Cousins clone at QB next year. Not Brady, but a huge upgrade from Newton (who was so fun when he was playing well; sad how he fell apart).
Cousins is a really good player. Really good. He's just not top tier. Nothing wrong with that. We've seen worse go further. He just needs a lot of help. Again nothing wrong with that either.

I think it makes a lot of sense imo. If we look to add offense in FA I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade up for a QB draft day.
 

mgcolby

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Cousins is a really good player. Really good. He's just not top tier. Nothing wrong with that. We've seen worse go further. He just needs a lot of help. Again nothing wrong with that either.

I think it makes a lot of sense imo. If we look to add offense in FA I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade up for a QB draft day.
Not to highjack the thread, well not sure anyone can after sliplady's posts, but I digress. The problem with Cousins is he is the definition of anti-clutch. He's the guy if your losing that will being you back into the game and with a chance to tie or win the game on a late 4th quarter/OT drive will get you across the fifty just to throw a mind numbing pick.
 

1960Pats

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BGC loves him some fast athletic qb's that run all around, get hurt and have a difficult time throwing. I have been listening to the same line from talking heads for 25 years. Revolutionize the game, Brady and Breeze and Manning are dinosaurs, the next great thing. For some reason Brady and Mahomes are the one in the super bowl and your favorite Lamar has 1 playoff win, with a team completely structured around him.

In a perfect world, where qb's didn't get hurt, having Mac Jones be able to run like Jackson would be awesome. However, it never seems to work that way. It is almost like to be a great nfl qb you have to be able to pass, and if you are an amazing runner, you have been trained since you were young to run as soon as things start to fall apart. So you get to the NFL, have some success early, then either realize you have to stay in the pocket to pass, or you get crunched 1 to many times and you lose a step or two and still can't pass in the pocket as well as a qb that has been doing it his entire life.

That of course doesn't mean that Jones is the next Brady, that the Patriots should draft him, or that he will be any good at all. What it does mean is discounting a qb because he can't run is as foolish as saying all qb's that come from Alabama suck.
The line of thinking that BGC uses to determine a QBs value is why Kyler Murray made the pro bowl and Brady didn't.

The best QBs in the NYFL have always been the ones who can stay in the pocket, make their reads and deliver the ball accurately and on time. Even those who can run well need to learn that to win. The next QB who wins a SB based on his running will be the first.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Not to highjack the thread, well not sure anyone can after sliplady's posts, but I digress. The problem with Cousins is he is the definition of anti-clutch. He's the guy if your losing that will being you back into the game and with a chance to tie or win the game on a late 4th quarter/OT drive will get you across the fifty just to throw a mind numbing pick.
Yea they need to go. Awful poster who our right lied and said Paterno said Lamar Jackson couldn't understand or run his offense. An offense they couldn't explain if their life depended on it but that's another subject. Of course it was nonsense. Paterno never said and that poster never brought up a shred of evidence. Anyway ...

Here's the real problem. People have no idea what they're talking about. Cousins is a very good QB that would be employed tomorrow within an hour if he was available.

He has flaws but pats fans need to realize that's life after Brady. He's not walking through those doors and 98% of QB's need a lot to make it work. They have real issues. I mean you're gambling either way.

Jimmy G? Will he last? When it comes time to win a game can he come through? Is he clutch?

Cam? Hoping to catch lightening in a bottle between injuries, mechanics and play style (he has to complete passing TDs)

Cousins makes a lot of sense when talking about Jones. Then the obvious question is would you spend a top 10-15 pick for a guy like Cousins. Or Carr, Jimmy G. Give or take that's where I have Jones and the few (2-3) people's opinions I actually care about agree. So I have to go with my gut. Again Really like Mac but not where people are taking him (top 8-15)
 

mgcolby

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Yea they need to go. Awful poster who our right lied and said Paterno said Lamar Jackson couldn't understand or run his offense. An offense they couldn't explain if their life depended on it but that's another subject. Of course it was nonsense. Paterno never said and that poster never brought up a shred of evidence. Anyway ...

Here's the real problem. People have no idea what they're talking about. Cousins is a very good QB that would be employed tomorrow within an hour if he was available.

He has flaws but pats fans need to realize that's life after Brady. He's not walking through those doors and 98% of QB's need a lot to make it work. They have real issues. I mean you're gambling either way.

Jimmy G? Will he last? When it comes time to win a game can he come through? Is he clutch?

Cam? Hoping to catch lightening in a bottle between injuries, mechanics and play style (he has to complete passing TDs)

Cousins makes a lot of sense when talking about Jones. Then the obvious question is would you spend a top 10-15 pick for a guy like Cousins. Or Carr, Jimmy G. Give or take that's where I have Jones and the few (2-3) people's opinions I actually care about agree. So I have to go with my gut. Again Really like Mac but not where people are taking him (top 8-15)
Gotchya just pointing the biggest flaw in Cousins, IMO. I'm not keen on a Jimmy G or Cam reunion either. I have kind of settled on sort of hoping for Smith to be released and draft a rook in the 1st round. In a perfect world Smith stays healthy for the whole season and leads us to the playoffs. Or at a minimum stays healthy for several weeks tutoring the youngin and sail from there.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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The line of thinking that BGC uses to determine a QBs value is why Kyler Murray made the pro bowl and Brady didn't.

The best QBs in the NYFL have always been the ones who can stay in the pocket, make their reads and deliver the ball accurately and on time. Even those who can run well need to learn that to win. The next QB who wins a SB based on his running will be the first.
Russel Wilson & Big Ben were far more athletes than actually QB's when they won their first ring. Mahomes isn't a "pocket passer" , not even close and her been to the last two.

Name me the best "pocket passers" excluding Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson & Watson. This should be fun.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Gotchya just pointing the biggest flaw in Cousins, IMO. I'm not keen on a Jimmy G or Cam reunion either. I have kind of settled on sort of hoping for Smith to be released and draft a rook in the 1st round. In a perfect world Smith stays healthy for the whole season and leads us to the playoffs. Or at a minimum stays healthy for several weeks tutoring the youngin and sail from there.
No I agree with you in a sense. Not sure I'd go as far to say he's not clutch but I definitely get why some would have that opinion.
Hes a smart guy but intense & could probably chill out some. I've always believed he gets to fired up and will miss easy stuff or kind of beat himself at times.

Right now you have a few great QB's. Literally 3-5 and Brady is gone very soon. After that you have guys like Watson, Jackson, Murray & a few others imo.

Then a bunch of guys that need a lot to go right in order to get that win.

Very curious to see where Bill goes.
 

1960Pats

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Russel Wilson & Big Ben were far more athletes than actually QB's when they won their first ring. Mahomes isn't a "pocket passer" , not even close and her been to the last two.

Name me the best "pocket passers" excluding Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson & Watson. This should be fun.
I'm not saying that athletes (big Ben) can't be QBs, or even QBs that run on occasion (Wilson and Mahomes) can't win. A few do, but not very many. What I'm saying is they need to learn how to pass the ball to be successful.

Rather than exclude all of the successful QBs and loser Watson, why not look at the list of the last 20 SBs and tell me how many running QBs have been there. This should be fun.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I'm not saying that athletes (big Ben) can't be QBs, or even QBs that run on occasion (Wilson and Mahomes) can't win. A few do, but not very many. What I'm saying is they need to learn how to pass the ball to be successful.

Rather than exclude all of the successful QBs and loser Watson, why not look at the list of the last 20 SBs and tell me how many running QBs have been there. This should be fun.
You are stuck on "running QB" or "The best QBs in the NYFL have always been the ones who can stay in the pocket" but you're either ignorant to the QB landscape or don't know what a pocket passer is. There are very few of them in the league.

I asked you to name me the guys that are SB contenders from that bunch and you couldn't. After I gave you multiple examples of guys that won SB lacking the ability to stand in a pocket all game and beat you with their arm. Mahomes is hardly a pocket passer and kills teams with his athleticism. Cam, Kap, Jimmy & Goff all played in SB and none were pure pocket passers.

The point is those QB's aren't in the league anymore and those types aren't in the league now. Look at the past few drafts and who's been taken early, who's worked out. Look at this year's class.

The QB's you describe don't exist. I asked you to name me some and haven't gotten a response. Besides Brady what guys are in that mold that you can call a SB contending/capable QB.
 

KontradictioN

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You are seriously a fool. That is the only explanation. I was not comparing the skill, you fool. I was comparing the athleticism. Lie all you want. I never said anything about how easy it will be to find another Brady. Use some freaking common sense.
@DaBruinz how come you never told us that your wife signed up for an account?


 

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