Central Thread For Mourning/Canonizing Jimmy Garoppolo

[long distance]

1. I believe its safe to say no one knows what went on inside Foxboro re. JG trade.
It might take a while before someone outside does . besides it doesn't and won't matter much. My best guess is Kraft trusts and listens to BB and vice versa. They can reach the toughest decisions without showing muscles.

2. For a couple of years I was arguing that NE could keep both QBs for 2018 even w Jimmy on 20M+ tag if they wished so. It would be risky and borderline sustainable praying for some injury luck. The biggest problem here in my view was not the cap but the fact that nobody would be happy with this since it would be a clear sign to Tom that they are moving on after 2018 and since he clearly wants to keep playing it would create a lot of tension from locker room to FO and ownership.

2A. Of course things can change quickly cap wise and what seemed like a comfortable 2018 cap situation at the beginning of the season it looks quite deflated 5 months later mostly due to so many injuries and NLTB incentives. Unplanned in-season signings to replace key injured players took well over 5M, Gronk's and other players incentives likewise (most were NLBT so they will be on 2018 cap, IIRC) and the LT situation alone could take north of 10M additional money for next season since none of the rookies or backuos really groomed into NFL starter. Even injury prone Waddle or average at best Fleming will likely have considerable market considering OT situation across the league. So in the course of the season - the equivalent of Jimmy's franchise money (which was probably never an option) was gone.

By my quick calculation NE will have some 15M+ free cap at the start of the offseason that could possibly/probably increase by some 20M by cutting vets like Bennett, Branch, McClellin, Harris, Gillislee, Britt. You can add another 5M by cutting Richards and restructuring (more likely) or cutting Allen. They will get some credit for the injured players and lost quite a bit on NLTB incentives so let's say they will have north of 30M which is ok if you don't have to franchise people..

3. BB gave his reason for JG trade: not sustainable situation to keep him. Reportedly they tried everything to keep him on some sort of bridge-over contract (and that alone said everything one needs to know about how they valued JG and how good he really was) - but thats hardly possible even with the best of intentions from both sides if you don't know how long the bridge is going to be...


to be continued..

 

[long distance]

1. I believe its safe to say no one knows what went on inside Foxboro re. JG trade.
It might take a while before someone outside does . besides it doesn't and won't matter much. My best guess is Kraft trusts and listens to BB and vice versa. They can reach the toughest decisions without showing muscles.

2. For a couple of years I was arguing that NE could keep both QBs for 2018 even w Jimmy on 20M+ tag if they wished so. It would be risky and borderline sustainable praying for some injury luck. The biggest problem here in my view was not the cap but the fact that nobody would be happy with this since it would be a clear sign to Tom that they are moving on after 2018 and since he clearly wants to keep playing it would create a lot of tension from locker room to FO and ownership.

2A. Of course things can change quickly cap wise and what seemed like a comfortable 2018 cap situation at the beginning of the season it looks quite deflated 5 months later mostly due to so many injuries and NLTB incentives. Unplanned in-season signings to replace key injured players took well over 5M, Gronk's and other players incentives likewise (most were NLBT so they will be on 2018 cap, IIRC) and the LT situation alone could take north of 10M additional money for next season since none of the rookies or backuos really groomed into NFL starter. Even injury prone Waddle or average at best Fleming will likely have considerable market considering OT situation across the league. So in the course of the season - the equivalent of Jimmy's franchise money (which was probably never an option) was gone.

By my quick calculation NE will have some 15M+ free cap at the start of the offseason that could possibly/probably increase by some 20M by cutting vets like Bennett, Branch, McClellin, Harris, Gillislee, Britt. You can add another 5M by cutting Richards and restructuring (more likely) or cutting Allen. They will get some credit for the injured players and lost quite a bit on NLTB incentives so let's say they will have north of 30M which is ok if you don't have to franchise people..

3. BB gave his reason for JG trade: not sustainable situation to keep him. Reportedly they tried everything to keep him on some sort of bridge-over contract (and that alone said everything one needs to know about how they valued JG and how good he really was) - but thats hardly possible even with the best of intentions from both sides if you don't know how long the bridge is going to be...


to be continued..

..continued..

ok, that was more of a re-cap

some recent thoughts to share:

1. Two things BB and TB have in common (possibly even JG): while they are very mindful about the future the most important part of the future is now. While they do everything in their ability to keep excellence sustainable (of organisation - BB / body&mind - TB) they want always to win now bc to sustain excellence you have to reach it first (meaning: now) and then repeat it every time (every now).

That means that if you go by “doing what's best for the team“ . meaning every year's team and “win now“ motto - you can't keep both bc that would hurt the “win now“ significantly in current cap situation that is dramatically different than one calculated only 5 months ago (as described in previous post).

2. While keeping Tom for 2018, 2019 is cheaper than Jimmy on a new contract + Tom's dead money . id guess BB also understands the meaning of Tom staying Pat (as long as he can play on a certain level) and going away a Pat without Kraft or anybody telling him. If he believed he could win with both (either) now (incl. 2018, possibly 2019) there was no reason not to go w TB. The future is tricky in this game so its better to be “on to Cincinnati“.

It is painful to let go something you believe in and that was so visible on BB's face. But when that is the right thing to do - for everybody - it makes it easier.

3. That is me trying to understand the decision in context of BB's body of work. Id still keep both for another year and then hopefully the transition takes its natural course. (Id also play Jimmy in between to keep Brady fresher - a thing BB would never do). Id risk a roster or two for a guy I believe could give me 10+ more years of excellence. But that wouldn't be fair to Brady or other members of those teams..

Also Billy will not be running it for 10+ more years. So as one can make silly arguments that Kraft twisted BB's arm the same kind of silly (and uninformed) argument could be made that it was BB's selfishness that made this decision.

4. BB knows this territory well enough and while possible/probable JG success could itch a bit the new future w/o JG is intriguing challenge.

With Tom's inevitable decline and end in mind . and no apparent heir in sight I would not be surprised if the next phase would be similar to the start of Tom's tenure - with focus on D that can carry the team for a while. This year already saw substantial investment in secondary and Id guess substantial investment in front 7 (especially through high draft picks) will follow. That would make the last years of Tom easier on him and also on the new QB. If he comes through draft that would enable even more investment in other positions. If they go for a mid-tier (game manager) QB for a while Vikings way (f.e.) is not such a terrible way to go.. And then - if any team is able to catch a big fish from another pond - its BB's..

 

[Huckleberry1]

Well reasoned argument but one every troubling question. Belichick did not shop Garappolo during the season. Question is why?? He called up his good friend John Lynch, who had inquired about JG in the off-season and sent him packing for a 2nd round pick. According to folks around the league BB did not scout around for a better deal. Why not?? IMO something happened during the year that triggered this move and the lack of diligence by BB to get a better return was a response to that. The banning of Yoko Guerrero from team flights and the sidelines is also tied into this. IMO Tommy was crying to Kraft about feeling insecure with BB's well earned reputation for fearlessly trading veteran players and with the Adam Shefter take "Belichick is not trading Garapollo, PERIOD" as a backdrop Kraft made it clear to Belichick that Brady was to retire a Patriot regardless of his level of play.
Belichick then responded by shipping JG off to his buddy John Lynch in the middle of the season and threw Yoko off the team flights and sidelines.
Remember, Belichick does not like in-season distractions. Hmmmmm.........
We will hear much more about this in the offseason when FOB (Friends Of Bill) start talking.....off the records of course.

Every bit as idiotic as your take on the situation after the KC game in 2014, complete garbage.

The Malcolm Butler interception and the comeback from 28-3 must have broken your heart.

 

[CutiePie]

Well reasoned argument but one every troubling question. Belichick did not shop Garappolo during the season. Question is why?? He called up his good friend John Lynch, who had inquired about JG in the off-season and sent him packing for a 2nd round pick. According to folks around the league BB did not scout around for a better deal. Why not?? IMO something happened during the year that triggered this move and the lack of diligence by BB to get a better return was a response to that. The banning of Yoko Guerrero from team flights and the sidelines is also tied into this. IMO Tommy was crying to Kraft about feeling insecure with BB's well earned reputation for fearlessly trading veteran players and with the Adam Shefter take "Belichick is not trading Garapollo, PERIOD" as a backdrop Kraft made it clear to Belichick that Brady was to retire a Patriot regardless of his level of play.
Belichick then responded by shipping JG off to his buddy John Lynch in the middle of the season and threw Yoko off the team flights and sidelines.
Remember, Belichick does not like in-season distractions. Hmmmmm.........
We will hear much more about this in the offseason when FOB (Friends Of Bill) start talking.....off the records of course.

yeah.....that is basically the rumor going around

hopefully we learn more in the offseason

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I like Jimmy G, think he's played great, also root for him to succeed.

But look at Dak Prescott. Look at Derek Carr. Look at Robert Griffin. Look at Matt Cassell who made a pro bowl.

There's still a lot of risk in quarterbacks. 4 games from Jimmy isn't a lot. Not a sure thing Jimmy G is a top3 guy you bank on for 12 years.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Good points about those flash QBs Flutie, but I believe JAG is the exception and will be the guy you bank on.
We need at least a next season's well scouted by DCs body of work to conclude.
I believe BB did Jimmy a real solid trading him to SF. Kudos.

 

[Huckleberry1]

That’s the one thing I do believe happened and I believe it is consistent with everything that ultimately happened re: JG. But we will never know.

Well, I take that back. If BB were to pull a surprise retirement/resignation after this season is over (and to be clear I am NOT predicting that), then I think that would be decent confirmation that some order came down from above.

There is zero evidence Kraft ever told Belichick that. And Belichichivk scoffing at Lynch when he asked about Brady indicates that Beluchick was never even considering it.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

There is zero evidence Kraft ever told Belichick that. And Belichichivk scoffing at Lynch when he asked about Brady indicates that Beluchick was never even considering it.

You repeatedly fail to notice the obvious fact that Belichick scoffing at Lynch (assuming that actually happened - after all, you're always telling us not to believe the media) is completely consistent with BB being told Brady is to finish his career with NE.

 

[Foxypats]

I thought Kraft let Bill make all the decisions regarding football without any interference. Why would that suddenly change after so many years ? Bill probably knew that Brady was still playing at an elite level and knew he couldn't keep both players . Having said that, I think Garappalo will be one player that the Patriots will regret letting go , wish we been able to keep him and Brady . This one bites....

 

[Huckleberry1]

You repeatedly fail to notice the obvious fact that Belichick scoffing at Lynch (assuming that actually happened - after all, you're always telling us not to believe the media) is completely consistent with BB being told Brady is to finish his career with NE.

Lynch said that happened, and you still have no proof that Kraft ever told Belichick he couldn’t move Brady . In fact Brady has said repeatedly that he wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he ended his career with another team. In other words you are simply making sh.t up.

 

[PatriotSpy]

Jimmy G playing like a BOSS. Looks crisp out there.

This will go down as one of the worst trades in NFL history no matter how you slice and dice it.

 

[CutiePie]

Jimmy G playing like a BOSS. Looks crisp out there.

This will go down as one of the worst trades in NFL history no matter how you slice and dice it.

he is pretty incredible.....the speed and crispness with which he plays is amazing

 

[jimnance]

Jimmy G playing like a BOSS. Looks crisp out there.

This will go down as one of the worst trades in NFL history no matter how you slice and dice it.

What an ignorant post.

 

[PatriotSpy]

he is pretty incredible.....the speed and crispness with which he plays is amazing

Can you imagine Packers fans and Niners fans (well if they had internet back then) going onto youtube or a message board and saying congrats on getting Young or Rodgers, they'd look like complete clowns. This guys is insanely fun to watch.

and as I say that he throws an INT. LOL.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

Jimmy just threw his 4th interception in 5 games with the 49ers

 

[PatriotSpy]

What an ignorant post.

You thank Tom Brady, build his statue, but you move on to the 26 year old who's ready to go.

 

[JMC00]

Has thrown a pick now in 4 of 5 starts.

Pretty sure Brady was getting **** on here for something similair

 

[PatriotSpy]

Jimmy just threw his 4th interception in 5 games with the 49ers

This is basically his rookie year starting. There are growing pains. Brady threw 12 INT's in 15 games his rookie season. Jimmy's undefeated as a starter and that's the main thing.

 

[sb1]

Can you imagine Packers fans and Niners fans (well if they had internet back then) going onto youtube or a message board and saying congrats on getting Young or Rodgers, they'd look like complete clowns. This guys is insanely fun to watch.

and as I say that he throws an INT. LOL.

The odds JG will ever compare to them are microscopically small.

 

[sb1]

This is basically his rookie year starting. There are growing pains. Brady threw 12 INT's in 15 games his rookie season. Jimmy's undefeated as a starter and that's the main thing.

Completely different eras of the sport.