Can we stop with this "Choking" nonsense?

[mgteich]

The two tipped balls (and the Harrison fumble) were everything. Call it Manning choking if you want, but that simply because y'all hate Manning so much. Peyton Manning played plenty well.

Romo on the other hand couldn't handle a snap last year, and decided to take a vacation to prepare for the giants game. He then didn't produce when it counted, during the game, and in the last drive.

From Webster's online:




http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choke


Manning choked. That's just the way it is. The one who doesn't seem to understand what "choke" means is you.

 

[spacecrime]

It's getting really silly how the homers on this site seem to have a huge misunderstanding of what it means to "choke" in a sports context.

What is silly are ignoramuses who think that every one who thinks his home team is good is a homer. Those folks are called fans, FYI. They favor their home team.

People who do not favor one team over another, who look unbiasedly at all teams equally, are called analysts or even "fans of the game."

Homers are people who always believe that home team is the best team. It is not necessarily a bad thing. The difference between a homer and a staunch fan is pretty hard to define.

But no, thinking Manning choked does not make one a homer. Felger said Manning had the choke job of the century, and it's pretty hard to call Felger a homer.

What is even sillier is that a person who doesn't know what it means to choke in a sports contest is spouting off like he's Phillip Rivers.

 

[PonyExpress]

The two tipped balls (and the Harrison fumble) were everything. Call it Manning choking if you want, but that simply because y'all hate Manning so much. Peyton Manning played plenty well.

Romo on the other hand couldn't handle a snap last year, and decided to take a vacation to prepare for the giants game. He then didn't produce when it counted, during the game, and in the last drive.

Manning had 1st and goal, down by 4, season on the line. He had Dallas clark, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Joseph Addai, all pro bowlers, at his disposal against an exhausted SD Defense. He couldn't get into the end zone. His defense made a stand, and got him the ball back with plenty of time left to score. He gained 5 yards in 4 plays and turned the ball over. He did the same thing late vs the Pats, coming up very small. IOW, in the 2 biggest games of his season, he did absolutely nothing the last 2 possessions in both games, down by 4.

That's choking. I don't blame him. I think it's physiological, and beyond his control. He can't control his heart rate, the blood moves away from his extremities toward his core, as it does for most mammals in fight or flight situations. This means his fingers don't have the same touch, his mental process becomes unpredictable.

It takes a very unusual person, a freak of genetics to remain unaffected in such critical moments. We have that person Qbing the Pats. There can be only one.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Colts had 29 first downs in this game but were a paltry 3-11 on third down. That was the difference in this game. Choked?.....maybe a little when it counted.

 

[Ootball]

It takes a very unusual person, a freak of genetics to remain unaffected in such critical moments. We have that person Qbing the Pats. There can be only one.

I agree that Brady has icewater in his veins, but he also threw 2 game ending INT's in the playoffs last year (the Chargers were nice enough to give one back to the Pats).

 

[bradmahn]

My response to this thread is the same as my responses in another.

Manning had a good game... if he was on your fantasy team. Manning made a terrible throw on the pick six to Cromartie, a terrible throw right in the hands of Merriman who got all Reche Caldwell on a motha, made a stupid decision on a shovel pass to Keith (the one that wasn't picked but was just as dumb), got happy feet late in the game despite a near perfect pocket on almost every drop back, and felt the need to be the hero and go deep on second and third downs when all he needed was five yards for the first down. He played great up until the first interception, after that he was spotty and played like he had a stick up his ass.

He is a very, very good quarterback and in that first half was damn near flawless, but when the game was on the line in the second half he had a very poor showing. That's the rub on Herman Munster, "it is what it is," and saying so does not diminish what Brady has accomplished or how he plays (please explain to me how that stupid logic works).

Brady is the better quarterback.

...

One good half where he bailed himself out of his shi t play in the preceding half (against backups) does not change the label he has "earned" every other year he was in the playoffs (hell, he was s hit for three and a half games last postseason). That was an overthrown ball from Manning to Clark (how many times have the receivers bailed Manning out on underthrown balls, say, like the Gonzalez catch that was challenged and upheld?). Peyton panicked when Merriman was falling next to him and threw a shi t ball to end the previous possession (you know, the one where he had four and a half goddamn minutes to score the TD).

His play fell apart late in that game. He choked.

And, btw, throwing a pick while attempting to drive 80 yards in 50 seconds is nothing like running around like a chicken with your head cut off with four minutes and fifty seconds to score a touchdown.

 

[indycolts685]

Manning had 1st and goal, down by 4, season on the line. He had Dallas clark, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Joseph Addai, all pro bowlers, at his disposal against an exhausted SD Defense. He couldn't get into the end zone. His defense made a stand, and got him the ball back with plenty of time left to score. He gained 5 yards in 4 plays and turned the ball over. He did the same thing late vs the Pats, coming up very small. IOW, in the 2 biggest games of his season, he did absolutely nothing the last 2 possessions in both games, down by 4.

That's choking. I don't blame him. I think it's physiological, and beyond his control. He can't control his heart rate, the blood moves away from his extremities toward his core, as it does for most mammals in fight or flight situations. This means his fingers don't have the same touch, his mental process becomes unpredictable.

It takes a very unusual person, a freak of genetics to remain unaffected in such critical moments. We have that person Qbing the Pats. There can be only one.

We actually didn't have Harrison for most of the 4th qtr, but that probably was a good thing, he wasn't in football shape imho

 

[Deus Irae]

This is what's so sad about your whole argument, you ignore the fact that at know point did Manning "lose composure" which is a crucial part of the definition you posted (and again, I guess didn't read). Now you are trying to make it as if I was giving a dictionary definition that was wrong. My definition is in line with the one you posted, which is the most hilarious part of your whole "I win, I win" argument tactics, and the rest of the reasonable sports world in no way thinks that what Manning did yesterday was choke.

Here's another definition, from a dictionary:

"4. To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension, especially in an athletic contest: choked by missing an easy putt on the final hole."

So because the term "choke" is a sports term, there is obviously no universal definition of it like the one you mentioned. Does this describe what happened yesterday, ugggh no, not even close so get off the hate-Manning-for-the-sake-of-it crap. You tried to use semantics to discredit my idea of choke, which is in-line with what most of the world thinks it is. You failed. This is the very reason why no one outside of this board is saying "Manning choked" when in past playoff performances they were. Move on.

No, what's sad is that you are telling people to get over the 'choking' nonsense, but you refuse to get over the fact that you didn't even know what the hell it meant to choke, admit it and move on. I don't even hate Manning, I just realize his limitations. Now, deal with certain realities:

1.) Manning choked

2.) You misunderstood "choke" and continue to fail grasping the simple concept.

 

[indycolts685]

No, what's sad is that you are telling people to get over the 'choking' nonsense, but you refuse to get over the fact that you didn't even know what the hell it meant to choke, admit it and move on. I don't even hate Manning, I just realize his limitations. Now, deal with certain realities:

1.) Manning choked

2.) You misunderstood "choke" and continue to fail grasping the simple concept.

In your opinion do you think Manning choked the entire game? Or just on the last two drives when he couldn't get anything going when the game was on the line? I pick the latter but thats just my opinion..

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh really?

Did Brady choke against the Broncos?

Did Brady choke against the Colts last year?

Seems to me that he threw game-ending picks in those games, didn't he?

Only a burger flipper would refer to one of the finest QBs to ever play the game as a choker.

Another clueless individual who doesn't have an understanding of 'choke' but thinks he should insult others despite his complete ignorance. FrontSeven, you truly are a treasure. The best part of your post is your apparent ignorance that all kinds of people were calling Manning a choker prior to his finally winning the Super Bowl last year. Here's one example:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=261&Category=7

Feel free to find hundreds more simply by Googling Peyton Manning choke.

 

[Deus Irae]

In your opinion do you think Manning choked the entire game? Or just on the last two drives when he couldn't get anything going when the game was on the line? I pick the latter but thats just my opinion..

The Latter. It's true that the officials were the '12th man' for the Colts, but it's unfair to call Manning a choker for getting their help. However, the last 2 drives, especially the second to last drive when he blew a first and goal situation, are what I'm talking about.


Manning is a great quarterback. He simply seems to wilt when the pressure gets to be at its highest. Dan Marino was the same type of quarterback. It doesn't mean that they sucked, it's just that handling extreme pressure is one of the things that separate a Marino/Manning from a Brady/Montana.

 

[indycolts685]

The Latter. It's true that the officials were the '12th man' for the Colts, but it's unfair to call Manning a choker for getting their help. However, the last 2 drives, especially the second to last drive when he blew a first and goal situation, are what I'm talking about.


Manning is a great quarterback. He simply seems to wilt when the pressure gets to be at its highest. Dan Marino was the same type of quarterback. It doesn't mean that they sucked, it's just that handling extreme pressure is one of the things that separate a Marino/Manning from a Brady/Montana.

Yeah I can't argue with that, I used to think Manning was better then Brady but after repeated playoff failures its pretty obvious thats not the case. Us Colts fans can only hope that things can change in the future. Maybe we should bring Jim Harbaugh out of retirement, that guy was pretty good in the post season, at least he was in 95..

 

[PatriotsReign]

Yeah I can't argue with that, I used to think Manning was better then Brady but after repeated playoff failures its pretty obvious thats not the case. Us Colts fans can only hope that things can change in the future. Maybe we should bring Jim Harbaugh out of retirement, that guy was pretty good in the post season, at least he was in 95..

We'll have this debate until both these all-time greats retire. Awesome that we're blessed enough to have these guys playing for our teams.

Here's the bottom line; Each QB will always be one playoff loss away from being a "choker". You think if we lose this Sunday there won't be talk of Brady losing 2 years in a row?...and the "choker" whispers begin to spread?

That's life in the NFL. We fans are fickle and we demand perfection.

 

[indycolts685]

We'll have this debate until both these all-time greats retire. Awesome that we're blessed enough to have these guys playing for our teams.

Here's the bottom line; Each QB will always be one playoff loss away from being a "choker". You think if we lose this Sunday there won't be talk of Brady losing 2 years in a row?...and the "choker" whispers begin to spread?

That's life in the NFL. We fans are fickle and we demand perfection.

With 3 superbowls under his belt if anybody would call Brady a choker would have to have their head examined

 

[PatriotsReign]

With 3 superbowls under his belt if anybody would call Brady a choker would have to have their head examined

You're right, but fans only care about "what have you done for me lately?" You guys beat us last year, so God help us if we lose ANOTHER playoff game. Honestly, I'd be pissed off if we lose and would probably blame Brady if he had a bad game...that IS possible you know

I'm just being honest. I'm probably no different from most Pats fans.

 

[indycolts685]

You're right, but fans only care about "what have you done for me lately?" You guys beat us last year, so God help us if we lose ANOTHER playoff game. Honestly, I'd be pissed off if we lose and would probably blame Brady if he had a bad game...that IS possible you know

I'm just being honest. I'm probably no different from most Pats fans.

Hey did you read the PM I sent you earlier?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Hey did you read the PM I sent you earlier?

Yes & I replied to it...did you get my reply? That not me...my IP address has been banned so even changing names doesn't help. I can't be bothered...maybe next year I can use you as a reference?

 

[indycolts685]

Yes & I replied to it...did you get my reply? That not me...my IP address has been banned so even changing names doesn't help. I can't be bothered...maybe next year I can use you as a reference?

That sucks, I was hoping it was you...

 

[PatriotsReign]

That sucks, I was hoping it was you...

Thanks IC...but it's probably not a good time to visit. Period of mourning and all that!

 

[vafides]

The word "Choke" Is getting overused regardless. The only "choke job" in our lifetime is the 2004 Yankees. The difference between the 2006 playoff version of Brady and the 2007 version of Peyton is nothing. Did Tom choke?? No. Stop overusing this term.