Can this defensive line apply pass-rush pressure by itself?

[signbabybrady]

I am very intrigued by Long, myself. I haven't talked about him much, and I think that might be because it seems nobody is really talking about him. He really hasn't been mentioned in many of the TC reports I've read. I really think he can be the force he was earlier in his career. Playing for a winning organization that usually puts players in the right position to succeed can have a rejuvenating effect on a player. I think people are kind of viewing him as an end of the road player, but I really believe he's a bit more than that. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

I'm high on Long. Patricia spoke very highly of him at the draft party. He said he had to keep reminding him that they were limited by league rules as to the type of work they could do at the time. He just wanted to get on the field.

I watched him closely last Saturday at practice and I thought he looked good. Did well in 1 on 1s and got in the backfield a few times in 11 on 11s. Including one really nice run stuff he completely blew up the play.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I'm high on Long. Patricia spoke very highly of him at the draft party. He said he had to keep reminding him that they were limited by league rules as to the type of work they could do at the time. He just wanted to get on the field.

I watched him closely last Saturday at practice and I thought he looked good. Did well in 1 on 1s and got in the backfield a few times in 11 on 11s. Including one really nice run stuff he completely blew up the play.

I hear you, Sign. I wonder how much they'll move him around. Unlike Sheard, I view him as strictly an outside rusher. Were they moving him around in the practice you witnessed? Is that something they ever did with him in St. Louis?

 

[signbabybrady]

I hear you, Sign. I wonder how much they'll move him around. Unlike Sheard, I view him as strictly an outside rusher. Were they moving him around in the practice you witnessed? Is that something they ever did with him in St. Louis?

He stayed on the right side on Saturday. Pretty sure he didn't move much in St Louis either.

I think that's fine though as Sheard is versatile and can be the one who moves around.

 

[PatsBoy12]

He stayed on the right side on Saturday. Pretty sure he didn't move much in St Louis either.

I think that's fine though as Sheard is versatile and can be the one who moves around.

Yup, that's what I suspected all along. Knowing BB and Patricia, I would not be surprised to see Long move around just a bit. I just don't think it'll be as much as some of the other more versatile guys. We definitely (on paper) have a squad to be reckoned with. I really do think this is the most talented roster we've seen top to bottom (again, on paper), though I guess someone could gripe (legitimately) about the OLine. How that translates to wins and losses is yet to be determined.

 

[Gronkowski123]

chandler jones

 

[BobDigital]

IMO there are 3 ways to generate pass rush.

#1 Have great pass rushers. This is the best way but if not possible you work it out through the other 2 ways.

#2 Scheme up rush. This works well at times but does not consistently solve the issue and leaves yourself open if someone counters your play (like you want to get pressure by overloading a side but a screen is thrown on you for instance).

#3 Dominate at others facets of the game with limited resources. This is luckily something we can probably do though it comes with risk. For instance we might be in position to generally shut down the run up the middle with 2 DTs needing no LB help behind them for a safety net. This would be a risk cause if it fails the RB goes until the safety gets him or gets a TD. Also it is the same theory as a shut down CB effecting a whole defense. Basically you free up a 5th person to rush fairly often without getting exploited elsewhere.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

And you still got younglings like Valentine, Flowers, Rufus, and Grissom who can surprise.

This is well said and the key. You have to have two or three young studs in order for it to be more successful than anticipated. The younglings are also important in December and beyond if injuries mount.

People always want to worry if we "won" the Chandler Jones trade. The comparison to see if you won is one year of Chandler Jones versus one year of Jonathan Cooper + 4 years of Thuney and Brisset (hope I got the trade back correct). We need Brisset to trade Garoppolo next Spring, or we would have had to use the Valentine pick on Brisset, and we would not have Valentine. It is all inter-connected. Teams do not win or lose trades in football, teams win or lose games in football.

 

[mihap]

With this year schedule, do we need pass rush? Pats will face mostly mobile QBs with heavy run game. Only in Pittsburgh game they will need some pressure, but they ll do it with some others blitzers. I am more than happy with Branch, Knighton, Long hope without injuries.

 

[Kontradiction]

I can see that. I'd only like to add that Sheard will be moved around a lot more, I believe, than Jones. He has shown he can rush equally effectively from the inside. So I think it will be difficult to double team him as often as one might expect. They tried it at times with Jones, but Jones was Jones . . . meaning I don't think he's nearly as good as Sheard.

Sheard faced more one on ones as the other bookend in part because Jones was demanding double teams on the other side. Jones is the better pass rusher of the two. The hope now is that Sheard can admirably fill his shoes.

 

[Kontradiction]

With this year schedule, do we need pass rush? Pats will face mostly mobile QBs with heavy run game. Only in Pittsburgh game they will need some pressure, but they ll do it with some others blitzers. I am more than happy with Branch, Knighton, Long hope without injuries.

They had better have a pass rush. Even if what you say is correct, they will still need one to win the Super Bowl.

 

[archstanton543]

A little but combined with the rest of the defense, it shouldn't have a problem creating pressure.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Sheard faced more one on ones as the other bookend in part because Jones was demanding double teams on the other side. Jones is the better pass rusher of the two. The hope now is that Sheard can admirably fill his shoes.

I agree with the first part somewhat, but wholeheartedly disagree with the second. Did Jones command doubles? Yes, of course. Did he always command them? Nope. Some teams trusted he could be blocked one-on-one for most, if not all, of the game. He didn't always make those teams pay for that. Furthermore, I did not see anything that made Jones a better pass rusher than Sheard. He failed to win the one-on-ones against better LT's consistently. Most of Jones' most impressive games came against lesser LT's/teams. Sheard, on the other hand, was often more explosive and disruptive. Go back and watch the Dallas game and you'll see a glimpse of what I'm talking about . . . granted they used him in a lot of stunts that game. Sheard had 8 sacks in limited snaps and games last season, only four off of Jones' 12 that everyone is quick to point out and he hardly came off the field. That alone speaks volumes, IMO. Jones often broke down in the second half of seasons, and even people in the local and national media have said as much. And he NEVER made the play when the play was needed most (that was often Ninko). He was even benched in the AFCCG when the Patriots were down. That's typically when you want your best players on the field. What does that tell you? I'm not going to say much more for fear of being accused of hating Jones, which I did/do not. In fact, I have said many times that I would have wanted them to keep him if the price would have been right, but it was not going to be. Someone, maybe AZ, will overpay him. I also don't want to come across like I'm being belligerent toward you in any way. Suffice to say, I think Sheard is a much better option and I think that will show itself to be true this season. If I'm wrong, however, feel free to find this post and I will accept full accountability.

 

[Tuck]

Easley showed a lot of potential but in all honesty he didn't move the needle much last year so in my opinion, losing him isn't really a factor in the OP's argument.

Hicks was replaced by Pot Roast who plays The run better but will probably end up being an even swap for the more athletic Hicks who could penetrate a bit more.

Jones was replaced by Long. Here's where there is most likely to be a drop off. Guys like jones are rare commodities and I don't expect long to be a 12 sack guy like Jones. He's probably going to be more like an 6-8 sack guy, hopefully he gives us something similar to Ninko's game but a little more penetrating.

Flowers, grissolm and Valentine are all wild cards that could provide more pressure but there is no way of knowing in August what these guys can contribute in December and January.

So all things being equal the pats will likely lose 4 sacks from last years sack totals from the jones Long swap and maybe a bit more from losing hicks but on the flip side, they'll play the run better and have three young guys with a chance to make up for it.

Not so bad if you consider they have Bennett because of these moves too!

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I think they can...and the secondary will probably make them look better than they are..but I would say yes