Can this defensive line apply pass-rush pressure by itself?

[Tunescribe]

With Chandler Jones gone and Dominique Easley -- a disappointing broken promise -- also history, I find this a big question going into 2016. On paper, this unit doesn't look athletic enough to consistently wreak havoc with opposing quarterbacks whatever combination of four guys they have out there, without linebacker help. Sheard can be a beast, hopefully Malcolm Brown takes another step forward in his second year. I am intrigued by what Chris Long might have to offer; Grissom and Flowers are question marks. I understand and accept why Jones had to go but am afraid we might miss his piece of the puzzle. And yes, I realize BB will be multiple with myriad combinations of DL/LB to muster a rush, so pondering this as purely a DL question pertaining to pass rush might be moot. Still, it would be great to see our own "fearsome foursome" out there dominating for a change.

 

[n1997y]

I think the DL will do well enough, and the secondary is looking enough improved that we may see more coverage sacks. Even if the DL does not look overwhelming on paper they are good enough athletes that the opposing OL will find it difficult to hold their blocks forever. Might not see quite as many sacks, especially against the better QBs who are savvy and disciplined enough to throw it away, but the real story is not sacks it's completed passes denied. Does anybody chart throw-aways? Seems that would be a useful measure of overall defensive effectiveness, and I expect the Pats would end up ranking well on that measure.

 

[gitgronked82]

we have pieces that i like, but no. i don't think this is a unit that you expect to give you constant pressure without a blitz. It also does depend on which players they're using, as there are tons of options. The defense is good enough that I think blitzes can be deadly, though. man i freaking love seeing collins or hightower blitz.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Some pressure up the middle by creating mismatches ...
We got killed last year by failing to set the edge - I think there will be an emphasis on it this year.
Chandler jones was good at some things but he was absolutely horrible setting the edge.

 

[Tunescribe]

Some pressure up the middle by creating mismatches ...
We got killed last year by failing to set the edge - I think there will be an emphasis on it this year.
Chandler jones was good at some things but he was absolutely horrible setting the edge.

Talking about pressure up the middle just drives home what a misfire Easley ended up being.

 

[patfanken]

With Chandler Jones gone and Dominique Easley -- a disappointing broken promise -- also history, I find this a big question going into 2016. On paper, this unit doesn't look athletic enough to consistently wreak havoc with opposing quarterbacks whatever combination of four guys they have out there, without linebacker help. Sheard can be a beast, hopefully Malcolm Brown takes another step forward in his second year. I am intrigued by what Chris Long might have to offer; Grissom and Flowers are question marks. I understand and accept why Jones had to go but am afraid we might miss his piece of the puzzle. And yes, I realize BB will be multiple with myriad combinations of DL/LB to muster a rush, so pondering this as purely a DL question pertaining to pass rush might be moot. Still, it would be great to see our own "fearsome foursome" out there dominating for a change.

I think you ask a great question, but let me ask you another. Back in the so called "glory days", did the Pats EVER have a DL that featured great individual pass rushers????? The answer of course was no. McGinest and Vrabel each had only one double digit sack year during their years under BB, yet the Pats were constantly around the top of the league in sacks most of those years (2003-07).

While I would love to have a Von Miller type on my team, one of the great myths of this fantasy football age is that you HAVE to have great individual rushers to have a great defense. Of course having great athletes help, but BB's (and now MattyP) have had great success "creating" pressure through innovative schemes to go along with "good" pass rushers.

Last year was a perfect example. The Pats were 2nd in the league in sacks, yet after Jones' 12, the #2 guy on the team was Sheard with just 8. When the Pats defense is at its best, you will find them near the top of the league in sacks, yet they are spread around the team, rather than concentrated in one player.

Let's put it this way. If Sheard getting starter's snaps can up his count by just 2 and we can get just 9 sacks COMBINED between Long, Flowers, etc, and guys like Hightower and Collins up their sack totals by just one; the Pats will once again be near the top of the league in sacks, even though they don't have what is commonly known as an "elite" pass rusher.

I will not say that Jones won't be missed. He was a very good and dependable football player for the Pats. Remember he was asked to do a lot more than just rush the passer, like all Pats DE's/OLB's have done in the past. I believe if they use him JUST as a pass rusher, like Denver does with Miller, his sack totals will probably rise. That being said, it was a deal that probably HAD to me made, and just because it will will help AZ too, doesn't make it a bad deal.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

With Terrance Knoghton and Malcolm in the middle up front, that's a very stout foundation, but I don't think either of those guys will get consistent pressure. What's most intriguing is how Belichik will utilize his prize tandem of linebackers behind these behemoths in blitz packages. Both Hightower and Collins are versatile and excellent pass rushers and should benefit from a strong D line.

 

[doesntmatter1]

If Ninkovich rushes as much as the the last few years, then no. I like Nink, but he struggles to get more than 5 sacks even though he sees more snaps than most defenders in the league.

Maybe this line will surprise us. Though our defense played pretty well last year, BB did find it necessary to get more size by trading for Hicks. We seem to be going power over speed and that is what our old school 3-4 defenses specialized in.

 

[slash83]

With the loss of Jones, Easley, and Hicks its hard to say the pass rush will be better then last year. Yeah Jones wasn't consistent and Easley was hardly on the field, its tough to say but I think it wont be as good unless Long and Sheard step it up.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Absolutely! And that's not the optimistic me talking. Sheard alone will be disruptive. Knighton, if he's anything like 2013 AFCCG Knighton, is going to be a terror. And Malcolm Brown was getting some good penetration in the passing game late last season. Ninko will be his same steady, make the play when we really need one self.

But I think it's a moot point ultimately because we have two of the better A-gap blitzing linebackers in the league and I don't see the Pats moving away from that consistently enough for the question to be truly applicable, no matter what the down four can do.

 

[manxman2601]

Absolutely, and that's not the optimistic me talking. Sheard alone will be disruptive. Knighton, if he's anything like 2013 AFCCG Knighton, is going to be a terror. And Malcolm Brown was getting some good penetration in the passing game late last season. Ninko will be his same steady, make the play when we really need one self.

But I think it's a moot point ultimately because we have two of the better A-gap blitzing linebackers in the league and I don't see the Pats moving away from that consistently enough for the question to be truly applicable, no matter what the down four can do.

Agreed. Collins and Hightower are potentially dominant forces when they blitz the A gap. I wish they'd be unleashed a little more. Hightower got 24 pressures on 116 attempts. That's a pass rush productivity of just under 21. (Pressures/rushes x100). That's a better rate at pressuring the QB than Von Miller, although obviously the circumstances are different. PFF ranked Hightower as their #1 pass rushing ILB. BB should unleash the beast.

 

[Mack Herron]

No love for Shea Mclellin? Trey Flowers and Rufis Johnson also showed rushing skills in brief appearances. Unlike OT3 or RB, potential is there.

 

[PatsBoy12]

No love for Shea Mclellin? Trey Flowers and Rufis Johnson also showed rushing skills in brief appearances. Unlike OT3 or RB, potential is there.

I thought about that after my initial post, but I ultimately decided not to amend it since I assumed the question was more about the presumed "starters" on the down line. I do expect that the guys you mention can make some plays, but I look at them as lesser parts of the rotation, besides Shea M. I think Shea will be used in so many ways, though, and not simply as a pass rusher.

But I think there will be so much mixing and matching, in addition to High and Collins blitzing the A-Gap, that it would make all of it moot. We were second in the league as a team in total sacks last season, and we accomplished that in a myriad of ways. I look for much of the same this season. I just hope the boys up front can play well against the run and well enough in the pass game specifically in the games against mobile QB's, where the Pats seem to favor more of a zone D.

 

[Kontradiction]

It depends on what Long can do in Belichick's defense and what his role will be. What will happen now is teams will double Sheard now that Jones is gone and bet that nobody else will win one on one consistently. If Long can come in and have a Vrabel/Nink type of impact, that will go a long way.

 

[PatsBoy12]

It depends on what Long can do in Belichick's defense and what his role will be. What will happen now is teams will double Sheard now that Jones is gone and bet that nobody else will win one on one consistently. If Long can come in and have a Vrabel/Nink type of impact, that will go a long way.

I can see that. I'd only like to add that Sheard will be moved around a lot more, I believe, than Jones. He has shown he can rush equally effectively from the inside. So I think it will be difficult to double team him as often as one might expect. They tried it at times with Jones, but Jones was Jones . . . meaning I don't think he's nearly as good as Sheard.

 

[Nunchucks]

I hope they can consistently pressure with the front 4, guess we will find out soon.

 

[Love The Drake]

Vincent my favorite Valentine is Easleys replacement.
He played hurt so people thought he dogged it and was lazy.
I think his ceiling is Donateri Poe.
If we can get a Elite Returner In Jones.
A home Run deep threat in Mitchell.
Productive guards, special teams demon In the Missile Kamu.
As well as a backup quarterback for the future.
A Defensiveback to add to the stable In Jon Jones.
A James White improvement In DJ Foster.
Then how could this draft be anything but a A when it goes in the books.

PS you can take our picks away but BB can still find talent under rocks and disregarded in landfills.
You can't stop BB from finding football players Goodell.

 

[signbabybrady]

Long is gonna be a beast. Sheard is gonna step up. Ninko still got plenty left. Malcolm Brown should only be getting better. Pot Roast should be better than Branch. And you still got younglings like Valentine, Flowers, Rufus, and Grissom who can surprise.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Long is gonna be a beast. Sheard is gonna step up. Ninko still got plenty left. Malcolm Brown should only be getting better. Pot Roast should be better than Branch. And you still got younglings like Valentine, Flowers, Rufus, and Grissom who can surprise.

I am very intrigued by Long, myself. I haven't talked about him much, and I think that might be because it seems nobody is really talking about him. He really hasn't been mentioned in many of the TC reports I've read. I really think he can be the force he was earlier in his career. Playing for a winning organization that usually puts players in the right position to succeed can have a rejuvenating effect on a player. I think people are kind of viewing him as an end of the road player, but I really believe he's a bit more than that. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

 

[IllegalContact]

With Terrance Knoghton and Malcolm in the middle up front, that's a very stout foundation, but I don't think either of those guys will get consistent pressure. What's most intriguing is how Belichik will utilize his prize tandem of linebackers behind these behemoths in blitz packages. Both Hightower and Collins are versatile and excellent pass rushers and should benefit from a strong D line.

they will collapse the pocket though and disrupt the play that way