Buzz on the rest of Pats FAs

[supafly]

I think a lot of the guys who potentially need replacing have their replacements already on the roster.

I agree with the thought that this team is in excellent position moving forward, but I'm not quite as optimistic about replacements already being on the roster. I think it's a much better picture than some are painting, particularly when you add in about half of our free agents who will be retained and a boatload of draft picks.

The important question will be which free agents are retained. I don't believe that certain guys like Branch, HT, Harmon, and Bennett can be replaced with someone on our current roster. Even Ryan cannot be replaced with Rowe by himself, simply due to Ryan's versatility.

 

[luuked]

I saw that chum in the water and knew that it wouldn't be long before someone else responded.

He baits me every time..

 

[Ring 6]

It doesn't matter if you have 60m or 100m in cap space. Every player is valued at a certain price point and if the market goes substantially over that to the point where you are going to screw up the payment structure of your roster you simply can't counter bid.

Howe went through an interesting mental experiment on one of his previous podcasts where he said one of the tricky things with potentially resigning Logan Ryan is that given his depth chart position he can't make more money than Butler because that's how BB & Caserio operate.

This means that extending Ryan would put pressure on the team to also get Butler done at a price point that is higher than Ryan. He went on to say that this could be further complicated if the team goes through with the first round tender, another team offers him a contract that is below Ryan and he signs it.

Again it's a thought experiment so don't take the Ryan/Butler stuff too serious but the key in this is that there is a pretty clear pay structure in NE where additional free cap space doesn't translate automatically into bigger contracts to keep FAs.

Why would butler take a contract that is lowr than Ryan's? Why would anyone offer Ryan more than bitter? If it happened he would feel it's the best deal he could get. How would that create problems?
This is a case if Howe trying to profess he "knows how the patriots operate" and then making up an impossible scenario to prove it.

 

[Jimke]

As I scan all the Boston websites each day, I have come to the realization
that the Patriots have engaged in very little negotiating with their top free
agents. They are having them test the market and get back to them.

 

[luuked]

Why would butler take a contract that is lowr than Ryan's? Why would anyone offer Ryan more than bitter? If it happened he would feel it's the best deal he could get. How would that create problems?
This is a case if Howe trying to profess he "knows how the patriots operate" and then making up an impossible scenario to prove it.

That's pretty obvious, because Ryan is a FA while Butler is not. Also just listen to his full 30min podcast about it as it's pretty insightful on how things work in Foxboro.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think a lot of the guys who potentially need replacing have their replacements already on the roster.

Who are you thinking of?

It seems to me that this is just how BB doesn't do business. He has five or six players (Geneo Grissom, Brandon Bolden, Brandon King, Nate Ebner, Jordan Richards, Matt Slater) who are essentially special-teamers -- emergency backups, not starters-in-waiting. Otherwise he might have found ways to keep Anthony Johnson, Crevon LeBlanc, KGH or AJ Derby.

 

[Ring 6]

That's pretty obvious, because Ryan is a FA while Butler is not. Also just listen to his full 30min podcast about it as it's pretty insightful on how things work in Foxboro.

Ryan is an RFA. The post I quoted suggested we match a Ryan offer and butler gets signed to a cheaper one and we match it and therefore did something to butler. It's ridiculous.

 

[Ring 6]

Who are you thinking of?

It seems to me that this is just how BB doesn't do business. He has five or six players (Geneo Grissom, Brandon Bolden, Brandon King, Nate Ebner, Jordan Richards, Matt Slater) who are essentially special-teamers -- emergency backups, not starters-in-waiting. Otherwise he might have found ways to keep Anthony Johnson, Crevon LeBlanc, KGH or AJ Derby.

None of those are starters either.

 

[50-yard-line]

Ryan is an RFA. The post I quoted suggested we match a Ryan offer and butler gets signed to a cheaper one and we match it and therefore did something to butler. It's ridiculous.

Ryan is a UFA, isn't he?

 

[50-yard-line]

Who are you thinking of?

It seems to me that this is just how BB doesn't do business. He has five or six players (Geneo Grissom, Brandon Bolden, Brandon King, Nate Ebner, Jordan Richards, Matt Slater) who are essentially special-teamers -- emergency backups, not starters-in-waiting. Otherwise he might have found ways to keep Anthony Johnson, Crevon LeBlanc, KGH or AJ Derby.

I don't know that BB has given up on Jordan Richards yet. Safety was strong and deep this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Richards in Harmon's place next season.

 

[Mike the Brit]

None of those are starters either.

My point is NOT that BB failed to keep starters, but that he chose special teams only players over POTENTIAL starters. I think LeBlanc is a starter, by the way, or, at least, the fifth DB (although he had his ups-and-downs, as rookie starters do).

 

[Mike the Brit]

I don't know that BB has given up on Jordan Richards yet. Safety was strong and deep this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Richards in Harmon's place next season.

Maybe. Or he could be the new Sergio Brown or James Ihedigbo. They used Harmon deep a lot. Not sure if Richards has the range or ball skills for that.

 

[JMC00]

Ryan is an RFA.

Nope. Butler is the RFA.

 

[Ring 6]

Nope. Butler is the RFA.

That's what I meant.

 

[Ring 6]

My point is NOT that BB failed to keep starters, but that he chose special teams only players over POTENTIAL starters. I think LeBlanc is a starter, by the way, or, at least, the fifth DB (although he had his ups-and-downs, as rookie starters do).

He chose jones over Leblanc.
He gave derby away
KGh is not a starter
Johnson was cut because of his play.

 

[Ring 6]

Ryan is a UFA, isn't he?

Yeah typo

 

[Mike the Brit]

He chose jones over Leblanc.
He gave derby away
KGh is not a starter
Johnson was cut because of his play.

If you want to pick a fight by posting facts that are irrelevant to what I'm saying, go ahead. I'm done.

 

[stinkypete]

I

And just to kick off another pre FA day on a positive note
here's a pretty bold and positive prediction in Reiss terms..

Prediction: Hightower will be back with the Patriots on a lucrative but not over-the-top contract after going through the same process McCourty did. -- Mike Reiss.

I agree with this. Hightower is a lot less athletic than the Kuechly/David/Wagner tier of LBs. You pay that kind of money to a player who can singularly patrol his section of the field regardless of scheme. Hightower is not that type of player, and he is probably more valuable here than on most other teams.

If Collins money doesn't get the deal done, then somebody else is overpaying.

 

[Ring 6]

If you want to pick a fight by posting facts that are irrelevant to what I'm saying, go ahead. I'm done.

You said he got rid of potential starters. I disagree that the players you are citing are potential starters.
Leblanc is the closest and he wasn't good enough to make the team.
Sorry if you don't like being disagreed with.

 

[Ring 6]

I


I agree with this. Hightower is a lot less athletic than the Kuechly/David/Wagner tier of LBs. You pay that kind of money to a player who can singularly patrol his section of the field regardless of scheme. Hightower is not that type of player, and he is probably more valuable here than on most other teams.

If Collins money doesn't get the deal done, then somebody else is overpaying.

You should watch Hightower play.