Butler visiting Saints

[manxman2601]

Whoa... how could the Saints possibly be able to give Butler the contract he's worth with that little cap space?

Back loading the contract perhaps? I don't know, it strikes me as a bit difficult.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Whoa... how could the Saints possibly be able to give Butler the contract he's worth with that little cap space?

5 year contract with $15 signing bonus, $1M salary first year, that's a first year cap hit of $4M. Worry about the bigger hits down the road I guess.

 

[ivanvamp]

Probably makes better sense to keep our #32, right?

In a draft supposedly deep with CBs, it probably makes sense to spend a pick on one instead of giving that pick away and spending $12 million that they don't really have on Butler. They're more than one player away.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Back loading the contract perhaps? I don't know, it strikes me as a bit difficult.

Give him a 4-year, $48M contract ($12m per) with a $14M signing bonus and base salaries of $1, 10, 11, and 12 million respectively. Cap charge in 2017 is $4.5M. Much larger hits in other years (13.5, 14.5, 15.5M). So yes, very backloaded. And this is how the Saints got into their current cap situation in the first place.

Edit: @BelichickFan beat me to it.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Back loading the contract perhaps? I don't know, it strikes me as a bit difficult.

Give him a 4-year, $48M contract ($12m per) with a $14M signing bonus and base salaries of $1, 10, 11, and 12 million respectively. Cap charge in 2017 is $4.5M. Much larger hits in other years (13.5, 14.5, 15.5M). So yes, very backloaded. And this is how the Saints got into their current cap situation in the first place.

Edit: @BelichickFan beat me to it.

In a draft supposedly deep with CBs, it probably makes sense to spend a pick on one instead of giving that pick away and spending $12 million that they don't really have on Butler. They're more than one player away.

I really don't understand why Malcolm wouldn't just play for the $3.9M tender, contend for 3rd title, and his UFA next year? Whatever deal he signs now won't be nearly as good as what he'd sign next offseason

 

[borg]

I really don't understand why Malcolm wouldn't just play for the $3.9M tender, contend for 3rd title, and his UFA next year? Whatever deal he signs now won't be nearly as good as what he'd sign next offseason

Motivating forces:
1) Bank 8 figures now
2) Agent gets his pay day now

 

[Marqui]

Hopefully Saints lack of cap space will allow a chance for the contract negotiations to collapse. Time for Butler's agent to go to work.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Hopefully Saints lack of cap space will allow a chance for the contract negotiations to collapse. Time for Butler's agent to go to work.

Butler's agent should've been fired by now... like, yesterday!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

they'll need at least half of that for rookie contracts

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I really don't understand why Malcolm wouldn't just play for the $3.9M tender, contend for 3rd title, and his UFA next year? Whatever deal he signs now won't be nearly as good as what he'd sign next offseason

Because the tender gives him zero security. He signs it, suffers some horrendous knee injury in training camp, and that's the end of his career. Good bye, big money.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Because the tender gives him zero security. He signs it, suffers some horrendous knee injury in training camp, and that's the end of his career. Good bye, big money.

Then he should've taken the long term deal the Pats offered last season

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I am confused. My understanding is that Butler has not signed his tender, and if he has not signed his tender, then is he allowed to negotiate a contract with the Patriots that makes the tender irrelevant? And if that is the case, would he - with permission - be able to negotiate with the Saints, in a non-tender way, whereby the Patriots could then trade him to the Saints for fair trade value (not the 11th pick), and then the Saints could sign him to an extension?

Or to simplify, since he hasn't signed the tender, is the 11th overall pick now an automatic price for the Saints to Butler, or are there ways around that? I thought that's what happened with Welker.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Then he should've taken the long term deal the Pats offered last season

True, but that decision is a past, sunk cost that has no effect on what decisions he is making now.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I am confused. My understanding is that Butler has not signed his tender, and if he has not signed his tender, then is he allowed to negotiate a contract with the Patriots that makes the tender irrelevant? And if that is the case, would he - with permission - be able to negotiate with the Saints, in a non-tender way, whereby the Patriots could then trade him to the Saints for fair trade value (not the 11th pick), and then the Saints could sign him to an extension?

Or to simplify, since he hasn't signed the tender, is the 11th overall pick now an automatic price for the Saints to Butler, or are there ways around that? I thought that's what happened with Welker.

Since he hasn't signed his tender he can talk to anyone and anyone can talk to him.

The #11 is only an automatic price for the Saints for Butler if the Saints are willing to give Butler a direct offer. Which they won't be willing to do.

And yes, if Butler goes to NO the process almost definitely will be NO and Butler arranging a contract, NO and NE arranging a price for Butler, Butler signing his tender with NE, being traded to NO, then renegotiating the one-year tender contract into the earlier, pre-arranged deal.

The Welker thing was NE making a poison pill, unmatchable offer to Welker, then having second thoughts and worries about it being held up in NFL "court" (plus bad blood with MIA) and instead saying "you're getting our 2nd anyways, how about we throw in a 7th and do this as a trade".

The difference is that NE was willing to give up the 2nd all along. By contrast, NO is (presumably) not willing to give up their #11.

 

[XLIX]

Butler's agent should've been fired by now... like, yesterday!

What makes you say that? Besides, of course, the fact that he isn't bending over for Coach Belichick.

Sure seems to me that his agent is on the verge of getting his client a big payday.... and if the deal falls through, well he will get an even bigger payday next year.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Sure seems to me that his agent is on the verge of getting his client a big payday.... and if the deal falls through, well he will get an even bigger payday next year.

Good luck with that!


FYI: Fairley, Okafor deals not in NFLPA system yet, and much of the remaining cap space has to go towards rookie contracts

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Its a brutally cold way to run a business and manage people.

But its been working for 17 years.

I think it only works so effectively because of the culture of the sport and the massive amounts of money being slung around

In a normal business, if you treated people so coldly and only viewed them as numbers on a spreadsheet, the turnover you'd have would make it hard to run efficiently depending on the complexity of the business..

You would basically be hiring and firing people non stop, spending resources on-boarding and training them, only to lose them when they inevitably quit 9-12 months later

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think it only works so effectively because of the culture of the sport and the massive amounts of money being slung around

In a normal business, if you treated people so coldly and only viewed them as numbers on a spreadsheet, the turnover you'd have would make it hard to run efficiently depending on the complexity of the business..

You would basically be hiring and firing people non stop, spending resources on-boarding and training them, only to lose them when they inevitably quit 9-12 months later

Totally agree. Can't really do that in the private sector.

 

[Huckleberry1]

In a draft supposedly deep with CBs, it probably makes sense to spend a pick on one instead of giving that pick away and spending $12 million that they don't really have on Butler. They're more than one player away.

Yep. I like Butler but I think the Saints are making a mistake here. Adding high priced cornerbacks when you need to fix your front seven doesn't make sense to me. Imo you want to build the other way around, and once you have the front seven working well and some decent players in the secondary you bring in the higher priced CB to put the finishing touches on your defense. Cornerbacks are too removed from the action to change a defense without the core already being in place. Butler makes much more sense to a team like the Texans imo.

 

[JMC00]

I really don't understand why Malcolm wouldn't just play for the $3.9M tender, contend for 3rd title, and his UFA next year? Whatever deal he signs now won't be nearly as good as what he'd sign next offseason

He has a clueless agent that is severely out of his depth. Especially after how he didn't move off of $9.5m per last year when the Pats offered $7m per. Guy wanted the Pats to rip up 2 low cost controlled years and the Pats were actually willing yet he wouldn't come down from $9.5m. If the Pats counter was $7m, it means they were likely willing to go to $8m. Pretty much common law in the nfl that is you are ripping up a rookie deal for a new one, you take a little less than what you really want or you just wait until UFA.