Butler visiting Saints

[QuantumMechanic]

I don't think you know how the offer sheet works.

It's a contract. If the Saints give him a 4 years, $45mill offer sheet and he signs it(and the Patriots decline to match), the Saints then get him at those terms. Not one year.

The offer sheet IS the way to get him signed for more than one year.

The offer sheet is one way to get him. And it's not the way NO is going to use because NO isn't giving up the #11 pick.

If Butler goes to NO it's going this way:
1) Butler and NO arrange but do not execute (because they can't) a deal.
2) Butler signs his tender offer from NE, putting him under contract to NE.
3) NE trades Butler to NO for the #32. The 1-year tender contract follows him to NO.
4) NO and Butler agree to tear up the tender contract and execute the deal they had arranged in (1).

Alternatively, they do:
1) Butler and NO arrange but do not execute (because they can't) a deal.
2) NE signs Butler to the identical deal that Butler arranged with NO.
3) NE trades Butler to NO for #32. Again, the contract follows him.

The first approach is more popular because it reduces the risk of the "sending" team getting screwed by the "receiving" team and also simplifies the handling of signing bonuses.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Brady is 40, let's keep Butler for the year and field the best secondary in the NFL.

Unless we are getting a very very very good return, why trade him? One year of a top 10 corner and a better chance of winning a 6th SB with our aging QB is better than getting the 32nd pick back, right?

 

[pherein]

Lol! Honestly, I could see the deal going down for Butler the exact same way Peter King mentioned earlier. A 2nd and 3rd for Butler.

I can see that also, but I like the intrigue lol. I can see the Saints looking at Butler to see if he fits in and really wants the trade. But dont see a reason for him comming here if BB and SP havent already talked about it. and BB wants to screw him for the #11 pick. So its just like SP says to BB ok we can get Butler that way and youll accept ? Ok but we want to bring him in 1st ok and see if hes going to be happy here.
This all seems part of the Cooks deal.

 

[Rdforty2]

The offer sheet is one way to get him. And it's not the way NO is going to use because NO isn't giving up the #11 pick.

If Butler goes to NO it's going this way:
1) Butler and NO arrange but do not execute (because they can't) a deal.
2) Butler signs his tender offer from NE, putting him under contract to NE.
3) NE trades Butler to NO for the #32. The 1-year tender contract follows him to NO.
4) NO and Butler agree to tear up the tender contract and execute the deal they had arranged in (1).

Alternatively, they do:
1) Butler and NO arrange but do not execute (because they can't) a deal.
2) NE signs Butler to the identical deal that Butler arranged with NO.
3) NE trades Butler to NO for #32. Again, the contract follows him.

The first approach is more popular because it reduces the risk of the "sending" team getting screwed by the "receiving" team and also simplifies the handling of signing bonuses.

You said NO would not give him an offer sheet because they wouldn't give up their pick for one year of control.

That is 100% false. The offer sheet would not for one year. It is absolutely possible they sign him to an offer sheet.

I didn't say it was the only way. I didn't say that's what they will do. You just made an incorrect statement implying that signing the offer sheet means they only get Butler for one year therefore they won't do it. And that is wrong.

I would agree they probably don't do it straight up as an offer sheet/conpensation. There has been so much discussion, there's sure to be a concession on the Patriots side. Well see how much and what the terms are though.

 

[pherein]

Brady is 40, let's keep Butler for the year and field the best secondary in the NFL.

Unless we are getting a very very very good return, why trade him? One year of a top 10 corner and a better chance of winning a 6th SB with our aging QB is better than getting the 32nd pick back, right?

I kind of agree with you, but this also wreaks as a done deal, and Butler going to Saints on Thursday is a formality.

 

[ATippett56]

No duh.

But the point remains, if NO is forced to resort to an offer sheet to get Butler they won't be getting Butler and NE won't be getting the #11 because NO won't be giving Butler that offer sheet.

However, Belichick may well feel that getting the #32 for Butler is better for the team than losing Butler for nothing after a year and so might go the trade route.

So it's not nearly as simple as your "if NO wants Butler they will have to give the #11 for it because NE controls his rights".

Why would the New England Patriots take less than the #11 overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft? The New England Patriots can retain Malcolm Butler for the 2017 NFL Season and draft a cornerback with the 72nd overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.

www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

 

[Mack Herron]

Why would the New England Patriots negotiate a trade? If Malcolm Butler signs an offer sheet and the New England Patriots refuse to match, the New Orleans Saints organization is obligated to cough up the 11th overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.

Because, for example, BB would rather trade him now than keep him. And NO will not trade #11.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

I can see that also, but I like the intrigue lol. I can see the Saints looking at Butler to see if he fits in and really wants the trade. But dont see a reason for him comming here if BB and SP havent already talked about it. and BB wants to screw him for the #11 pick. So its just like SP says to BB ok we can get Butler that way and youll accept ? Ok but we want to bring him in 1st ok and see if hes going to be happy here.
This all seems part of the Cooks deal.

I thought that Cooks trade, was a completely separate deal...Keep it on the DL. Lol

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Why would the New England Patriots take less than the #11 overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft? The New England Patriots can retain Malcolm Butler for the 2017 NFL Season and draft a cornerback with the 72nd overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.

www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

That's also what I don't understand. Unless BB feels we will be better WITHOUT Butler, why trade him for less than the tender? If the Saints want him, sign him to an offer sheet and give us the 11th. If they don't want the 11th, give us a package equal in value. 32nd + something else. If we get back less than that, I would definitely just keep him for the year, field the best secondary in the league and try to win #6. Then, we can get the comp pick in 2019.

 

[Tony2046]

Yes let's just ignore that Cooks was part of the deal.

Also blame Butler's incompetent agent.

Yeah. I can't see how Butler wins by going to the Saints.

 

[farn]

If Butler leaves, I am happy it's to NO. NFC team, solid fans, decent situation.

People on here who keep saying "let's keep the band together" so Brady can win are ignoring the last 15 years. BB is indeed playing for the present. He is the head coach of the defending champs (2/3 to boot).

I like me some Butler. But love me some BB.

 

[pherein]

I thought that Cooks trade, was a completely separate deal...Keep it on the DL. Lol

lol oh right it was sorry

 

[farn]

Yeah. I can't see how Butler wins by going to the Saints.

He gets the long term contract / security he can't get in NE. Because it seems NE isn't willing to go there, whereas NO is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah. I can't see how Butler wins by going to the Saints.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[farn]

That's also what I don't understand. Unless BB feels we will be better WITHOUT Butler, why trade him for less than the tender? If the Saints want him, sign him to an offer sheet and give us the 11th. If they don't want the 11th, give us a package equal in value. 32nd + something else. If we get back less than that, I would definitely just keep him for the year, field the best secondary in the league and try to win #6. Then, we can get the comp pick in 2019.

BB seems to like to allocate a certain amount of resources to different units. He prefers not "getting the best backfield" & hoping other units hold up. Seems like Butler being back would make for some crazy good backfield situations. But, like Rodney in 2003, the new player seems to be replacing, not adding...

 

[Tony2046]

He gets the long term contract / security he can't get in NE. Because it seems NE isn't willing to go there, whereas NO is.

If he plays one more year in NE he gets his payday which will be much more than any deal he'll sign for with NO. Am I wrong?

 

[ATippett56]

Because, for example, BB would rather trade him now than keep him. And NO will not trade #11.

Bill Belichick is under no obligation to trade Malcolm Butler. Bill Belichick is under no obligation to trade Jimmy Garoppolo.

 

[Tony2046]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Doesn't he lose $$$ long term?

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's also what I don't understand. Unless BB feels we will be better WITHOUT Butler, why trade him for less than the tender? If the Saints want him, sign him to an offer sheet and give us the 11th. If they don't want the 11th, give us a package equal in value. 32nd + something else. If we get back less than that, I would definitely just keep him for the year, field the best secondary in the league and try to win #6. Then, we can get the comp pick in 2019.

The fundamental philosophy of the NEP is if an asset cannot be controlled long term and a return on its investment not realized over its term then it is to be jettisoned.

If the asset presents a short-term liability and long term commitments are cloudy, then it is to be jettisoned immediately.

If you want to understand how BB views players, analyze how hedge fund managers operate.

Its all you need to know.

 

[farn]

If he plays one more year in NE he gets his payday which will be much more than any deal he'll sign for with NO. Am I wrong?

I think you might be. Just because I think NO might be giving him top $ now instead of after another risky NFL season.