Patriots Rumor Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[XLIX]

I wonder why Butler still hasn't signed his tender?? Maybe it's in hope that the Pats will up their offer to bring him back..

Unless there is a specific reason to sign it (i.e. compensation from the Saints was agreed to and a trade is imminent) then he is wise to wait. He gains nothing by signing it and loses a lot.

 

[XLIX]

I think it is funny how we live in an age of such instant gratification that 3 days of no activity, 2 of which were weekend days, makes people think the whole thing fell through.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... it's almost as if the Pats and Saints already had some discussion about this and they each know what it would take to consummate the deal..!!

If they're so f.ucking enamored by Butler, why not give us the freakin' #11 pick????

Maybe because they are willing to part with #32 but not #11?

 

[DaBruinz]

I believe that also included his salary for 2016 of $600K making it much more reasonable.

If true, it would still be closer to 7M AAV than 6M AAV.

600K +3.91+15.9 = 20.41 /3 = 6.8M AAV.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

That exact language is in the CBA that was in effect in 2007 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/cba/nfl-cba-2006-2012.pdf) when NE and Miami had plenty of discussions about trading Welker while he was an unsigned RFA. So apparently NE (and MIA) didn't mind breaking the rules back then. And it was openly reported on and not hidden at all, either.

And yet, every single piece of evidence we have says that's precisely what happened.

E.g., an article from the time based on an interview with Welker's agent:


All accounts I've ever read say the same. Even if we assume that every sportswriter was identically mistaken on that front, we do know pretty certainly that Welker had visited the Patriots and the Patriots were preparing an offer sheet. But they didn't want to wait out the Dolphins right-to-match period, and/or they were nervous about the then-murky poison pill rules. So instead they offered an extra draft pick to pry him away from Miami quickly and cleanly. HOW?

Welker never received an offer sheet from the Patriots, and it was very much NOT in his interests to sign his RFA tender. Even if he ultimately signed the tender to allow the trade to go through, it could only have been after the trade negotiation was completed.

I'm honestly baffled by the whole thing.

Personally, I think Occam's Razor applies here. The Welker negotiations were held in March 2007. To be crude (apologizing in advance), we were still Goodell virgins at the time. Following the spirit of the rule was how many/most teams operated back then. After our subsequent experience(s), the Pats are now OCD on following the letter and being more careful about loopholes.

 

[NashuaPats]

If true, it would still be closer to 7M AAV than 6M AAV.

600K +3.91+15.9 = 20.41 /3 = 6.8M AAV.

I think it's more like

600k + 3.9 + 10 + 10 =24.5 \ 4 = 6.1 per year

It was reported to be 6 to 7 per year, so years 3 and 4 may have been higher than 10.

Also, you don't make your best offer first and it doesn't sound like the negotiations went very far because the agent wanted year 2 to be treated as an UFA year. That was not negotiable to the Patriots, so negotiations have stalled since.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The Saints would be foolish to give up #11. I'd take it cause the deal is too good to pass up and if they are determined not to sign Butler long term after this year or feel it can't be done.

#32? I'd hang on to Butler.

My fear is what if you trade Butler and don't win the super bowl? Won't you always look back and question it?

That was the same thing everyone said about Revis. Also, it's worth noting the Patriots did not win this Super Bowl because of Butler; they won in spite of him playing a terrible game. I'm not saying he stinks or didn't help him get there, but they came very close to not winning a Super Bowl even in the two games they won. I think that overall luck/lack of injuries and some fortunate breaks are more critical to winning the SB than one player, especially since they already have a replacement signed, who they clearly think is better.

 

[XLIX]

That was the same thing everyone said about Revis. Also, it's worth noting the Patriots did not win this Super Bowl because of Butler; they won in spite of him playing a terrible game. I'm not saying he stinks or didn't help him get there, but they came very close to not winning a Super Bowl even in the two games they won. I think that overall luck/lack of injuries and some fortunate breaks are more critical to winning the SB than one player, especially since they already have a replacement signed, who they clearly think is better.

Overall, Butler had a good game, he just had the one play where he fell down so that is the play everyone remembers and think it represents the entire game.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

So dumb Belichick won't just extend Butler. Don't know what he's saving all this money for.

 

[mosslost]

That was the same thing everyone said about Revis. Also, it's worth noting the Patriots did not win this Super Bowl because of Butler; they won in spite of him playing a terrible game. I'm not saying he stinks or didn't help him get there, but they came very close to not winning a Super Bowl even in the two games they won. I think that overall luck/lack of injuries and some fortunate breaks are more critical to winning the SB than one player, especially since they already have a replacement signed, who they clearly think is better.

@BobDigital "What if we don't win the Super Bowl would I look back on that Butler was not there?"

I think it is a bit much to assume one way or the other much about the Super Bowl in relation to whether Butler is there. I mean, yes, SB 49 amazing play.. but Brady still had to score 2 TDs in 4th and the rest of the D had to make stops. Butler was on the team in 15 and we did not win. Brady has only won 2 Super Bowls in 12 years. We could have won 2 others, it is all about the bounces and breaks and whether we are good enough to get there. They have improved as a team even if they lose Butler.. and no I would not look back "if we don't win the Super Bowl" and think it is because pone CB was not there. The Super Bowl is an amazing feat regardless.. If Brady gets one more it will be epic, and just expecting to get the SB win is a bit much anyway.. We are like one of the best Dynasties of all time and we have 5 in 15 years, so even we don't win it 66% of the time.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Well it depends. Talent will be there at 11. If he moves down than he better get a 3rd rounder and not a 4th rounder.

More like a second plus, if the difference between 11 and 32 is another first, about another 28th pick. If BB took 32 plus 2nd, he would be giving NO a free second or third, based on" friendship".

 

[Ring 6]

More like a second plus, if the difference between 11 and 32 is another first, about another 28th pick. If BB took 32 plus 2nd, he would be giving NO a free second or third, based on" friendship".

Well it wouldn't be in friendship. It would be because NO won't sign him if it costs #11 but will if they can pay less. It's like saying we did Cleveland a FA it based on friendship by not demanding their #1 for Collins.

 

[patsinthesnow]

3/20/17 Update

 

[50-yard-line]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... it's almost as if the Pats and Saints already had some discussion about this and they each know what it would take to consummate the deal..!!

You do realize that the Pats and Saints could be punished through such speculation by the league office, right?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

You do realize that the Pats and Saints could be punished through such speculation by the league office, right?

Actually, we don't know that at all. For starters, we don't know if the league can initiate action itself on this or if it can only act persuant to a grievance filed by the involved player or an involved team. Since in this proposed transaction all three parties are (presumably) on board, there'd be no one to grieve.

 

[borg]

Report: Contract parameters “mostly in place” for Saints, Malcolm Butler

 

[borg]

Giardi: Parameters 'mostly' in place for Saints' offer to Butler

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Easy. We'll be ok. I don't think BB is going to get "fleeced".

Just upset to see another team pry him awat - a Super Bowl hero - away from us on the cheap

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Actually, we don't know that at all. For starters, we don't know if the league can initiate action itself on this or if it can only act persuant to a grievance filed by the involved player or an involved team. Since in this proposed transaction all three parties are (presumably) on board, there'd be no one to grieve.

I would think that ANY team could file a grievance, even if they were not involved in the trade, since they could be considered "harmed" by an opponent pulling off an illegal transaction.

A player can’t be tendered as a tool for trading him, per the CBA.

Florio discussed this last week, in that both teams need to tread lightly and follow procedures closely, or else the NFL will have a problem with it:

Saints, Patriots will tread lightly on Malcolm Butler deal

 

[patchick]

I think the agent maneuvered it. Welker didn't want them to match either. So welker wanted the poison pill. I think it was his agent that didn't want to play dirty pool with Miami so he went to them.
He had to have signed the tender before the trade.

Yeah, the only scenario that really makes sense is a lot of "informal" promises from both sides to the agent, and then a big leap of faith that everyone follows through when the player signs the tender.

 

[pats_premi]

Mike Lombardi seems to have a better take on the Patriots roster moves. He seems to think that it is not likely to happen.