Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[QuantumMechanic]

Maybe wrong phrase to use, but he is going around the system intended for a restricted free agent. So he got his feelings hurt by Gilmore getting the big contract. Take your 3.91 million and get paid next year.

???

He's doing no such thing. Teams aren't entitled to have RFA's mindlessly sign the tender and cave to the team. And certainly not before 21 April at the absolute earliest.

The system is:

• If a team wants to, a team can put a draft-choice tag on a restricted free agent.
• Whether or not he's been tagged, the RFA is free to shop himself around as much as he wants to try to get a deal.
• The RFA is under no actual or moral obligation to negotiate with the team who tagged him, though he of course certainly can if he wants to (and of course most/all do).

The RFA & tag system is intended to make it harder for teams to sign away RFAs (and as a corollary, help keep their pay down).

 

[borg]

Which probably means someone is asking for the moon.

Or it could mean NO now needs time to clear cap space in order to complete the Butler transaction

 

[mikey m]

I think it was because Belichick got an extended first hand look at him last summer, realized how incredibly talented he is, and saw the chance to bring him in.

Definitely part of it, but more thought goes into it than that

 

[QuantumMechanic]

True, plus it isn't clear to me that NE would get the No. 11 or 32 pick. Nothing I've read in the CBA mandates that the prior club get the higher pick if the new club has more than one pick i nthe round.

It's been multiply reported that the CBA says that if a team signs another team's RFA to an offer sheet and that team doesn't match, the signing team owes their original draft choice. No discretion in the matter.

(I don't know what happens if a team has a draft choice in the relevant round but not their original one. They may well not be allowed to give an offer.)

 

[TeamFirst]

Or it could mean NO now needs time to clear cap space in order to complete the Butler transaction

Could be.

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[borisman]

So here is how it is:
SP: Bill, I think we have a deal with Butler but can't give you the 11th pick. We may just use it on a talented (on a rookie contract) CB that likely will be available with that pick.
BB: I understand, I wouldn't give up the 11th pick either. We'll take 32 and something like a 4 next year.
SP: You're a man of reason. How about you throw Gronk in as well.
....both laugh and transfer calls to the GM's to iron out the details.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Agreed. He is a system DB. So was Samuel. How did he work out in Philly? He will be a good solid corner in NO, not elite. People give not near enough credit for the culture and coaching in NE impacting players' success.

Samuel was a 2x pro bowler and 1x All Pro for Philadelphia. He was good for them. He briefly struggled when they tried to convert him to a man-to-man CB, for whatever reason, but those Eagles teams were notorious for pulling **** like that. Once they got that ironed out, he was very effective for them.

In any case, it really makes no sense to use Samuel as a Butler comp. Butler is a much better and more versatile corner than Samuel ever was. He can play man or zone and doesn't require a safety babysitting him over the top. Any CB for whom that's true is, pretty much by definition, not a system corner.

If we're going to talk about system corners, Ryan is the guy you should be talking about. He is absolutely a system corner. Without an elite-range safety over the top I think he'll be exposed badly. Butler won't have that problem, though, because he rarely had that safety help over the top since it was always shaded over to Ryan. What we saw with him is what the Saints will get.

 

[Sfpat]

So here is how it is:
SP: Bill, I think we have a deal with Butler but can't give you the 11th pick. We may just use it on a talented (on a rookie contract) CB that likely will be available with that pick.
BB: I understand, I wouldn't give up the 11th pick either. We'll take 32 and something like a 4 next year.
SP: You're a man of reason. How about you throw Gronk in as well.
....both laugh and transfer calls to the GM's to iron out the details.

And if I'm Bill, my response to SP is...sorry you feel that way. The price is the price. We'll keep Butler for another year at $3.9MM. Hope that rookie works out

 

[borisman]

It's been multiply reported that the CBA says that if a team signs another team's RFA to an offer sheet and that team doesn't match, the signing team owes their original draft choice. No discretion in the matter.

(I don't know what happens if a team no has a draft choice in the relevant round but not their original one. They may well not be allowed to give an offer.)

It's sad you have to explain that this deep into discussions about a player.
And yeah, you can't sign a 1st rounder tender RFA if you don't have one to surrender.

 

[borisman]

And if I'm Bill, my response to SP is...sorry you feel that way. The price is the price. We'll keep Butler for another year at $3.9MM. Hope that rookie works out

Butler never would've gone there if a deal wasn't talked about between BB and SP in advance. Otherwise, it's a waste of everybody's time.
Edit: I should have started that with "But your not Bill. Let's be realistic here".

 

[TeamFirst]

 

[TomPatriot]

It's been multiply reported that the CBA says that if a team signs another team's RFA to an offer sheet and that team doesn't match, the signing team owes their original draft choice. No discretion in the matter.

(I don't know what happens if a team no has a draft choice in the relevant round but not their original one. They may well not be allowed to give an offer.)

Article 9 of the CBA says "one" first round draft choice, not "original." But who knows? The Commissioner's Office may have interpreted this before.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Samuel was a 2x pro bowler and 1x All Pro for Philadelphia. He was good for them. He briefly struggled when they tried to convert him to a man-to-man CB, for whatever reason, but those Eagles teams were notorious for pulling **** like that. Once they got that ironed out, he was very effective for them.

In any case, it really makes no sense to use Samuel as a Butler comp. Butler is a much better and more versatile corner than Samuel ever was. He can play man or zone and doesn't require a safety babysitting him over the top. Any CB for whom that's true is, pretty much by definition, not a system corner.

If we're going to talk about system corners, Ryan is the guy you should be talking about. He is absolutely a system corner. Without an elite-range safety over the top I think he'll be exposed badly. Butler won't have that problem, though, because he rarely had that safety help over the top since it was always shaded over to Ryan. What we saw with him is what the Saints will get.

Malcolm is a 10X better tackler and man to man cover guy but when it comes to bating QBs and anticipation Asante blows him out of the water.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

La confora was wrong on the cooks trade.

 

[TeamFirst]

La confora was wrong on the cooks trade.

He's the 3rd person reporting the same thing. Howe and Rapoport both tweeted the same.

 

[slam]

Can the Saints trade down in the first round and then sign Butler to an offer sheet?

 

[AtomicDawg]

 

[NashuaPats]

I would love to see Gilmore and Bulter in our defensive backfield.

 

[RIpats88]

Saints have no cap space and butler wants gilmore $$. And pats have no incentive to trade him unless they get a decent haul

If butler wants top corner money his best bet is to play on the tag and wait until next year when he WILL get gilmore $$ 100%

This all to me reeks of the personal injury lawyer agent whispering in his ear that he deserves gilmore $$ now. Not understanding that RFA drives down his value.