But It's Not Mac's Fault....

[cmasspatsfan]

This post really tells the tale. There is a tendency here to frame the issue as "Mac Lovers" vs. "Mac haters": a childish oversimplification in part the fruit of unwillingness to face that this team is deficient in nearly every area. Mac is probably not a good enough player that we should commit to him long term, but It is difficult to say with certainty whether this is so because of Mac's insurmountable limitations or because of the HC/GM's fireable incompetence in failing to build a decent team around him, and in failing to let go of his asinine and petty resentments, and of his compulsions - going back years - to deprive the team of players' services - even at the expense of losing a Super Bowl - to assuage his petty, butt-hurt resentments.

Given all this, I would:

1) Keep Mac another year as a sort of placeholder starter until whatever OB candidate we draft or trade for is able to beat him out.
2) Fire Bill the GM, relieving him of any role whatever - beyond such advice as in welcome from any HC, advice which the GM may value as he chooses.
3) The Krafts should convey privately to Bill that though he is welcome to stay another year as HC, it will be on a probationary basis, given his failings as HC.
4) I understand Bill is unlikely to accept such a role. I don't care. Though he is not the blatant failure as HC which he is as GM, the trends are not good: the game plans blow, the in-game adjustments are hit or miss, the team has lousy fundamentals, decisions as to which players are active on game day are inexplicable to the point of being toxic for team chemistry, and so on. If Bill will not accept being fired as GM and serving on a probationary basis as HC, I'm fine with that. Just look at this team. It's a mess, right?

(This has indeed "already been discussed," and it will be again. Dealing with a failed GM and a failing HC must be Job (and topic) One, particularly given that decisions re this team in years going forward are in the immediate offing, and we do not want a failed GM to play a central role in important roster/trade/draft decisions soon to be made.)

First of all, I like your posts, intelligent, well thought out posts, whether I agree with them or not. Also, you don't resort to name calling like some children on this site. Secondly I'm afraid they might do the opposite and kick Bill upstairs and have Mayo coach, don't know if he'd be GM or an advisor but I think they would keep him in some capacity.

 

[lancerman]

San Diego is an example of a team wasting a quarterbacks theoretical talents and potential.

The Patriots are not.

San Diego again is a team that did in fact give skill weapons to their QB. Even if I agree with you in concept, we know Herbert is good because he has the weapons to prove it. The fact that nobody is giving any great examples of a QB with bad weapons being wasted is kinda telling. But it's also hard to find a team with worse weapons than new England

 

[PATS16N0]

San Diego again is a team that did in fact give skill weapons to their QB. Even if I agree with you in concept, we know Herbert is good because he has the weapons to prove it. The fact that nobody is giving any great examples of a QB with bad weapons being wasted is kinda telling. But it's also hard to find a team with worse weapons than new England

You’re not wrong that NE doesn’t have any receivers, but neither does Kansas City, who also, I might add, as of last week, had the most drops in the league.

They’re still leading their division.

You might say, “well, that’s because they have Mahomes.”

Indeed….

A QB helps a lot.

 

[Rob0729]

You’re not wrong that NE doesn’t have any receivers, but neither does Kansas City, who also, I might add, as of last week, had the most drops in the league.

They’re still leading their division.

You might say, “well, that’s because they have Mahomes.”

Indeed….

A QB helps a lot.

Mahomes is a generational talent. It never helps your argument when you are using him as a QB who can make chicken salad out of chicken shot in comparison to virtually other QB in the league. Mahomes is one of the few QBs in the league that can elevate mediocre talent.

You can criticize Mac without comparing him to Mahomes or Brady or any other generational talent.

 

[PATS16N0]

Mahomes is a generational talent. It never helps your argument when you are using him as a QB who can make chicken salad out of chicken shot in comparison to virtually other QB in the league. Mahomes is one of the few QBs in the league that can elevate mediocre talent.

You can criticize Mac without comparing him to Mahomes or Brady or any other generational talent.

“Mahomes is actually good at QB so that doesn’t help your argument.”

Lol

 

[lancerman]

You’re not wrong that NE doesn’t have any receivers, but neither does Kansas City, who also, I might add, as of last week, had the most drops in the league.

They’re still leading their division.

You might say, “well, that’s because they have Mahomes.”

Indeed….

A QB helps a lot.

Kansas City has Kelce who might be the best pass catcher in the league though. They looked terrible in that one game without him earlier this year.

The issue is, however you feel about Mac, we haven't surrounded him with what the good/average QB's are getting.

 

[jeremy2020]

Somehow.. mac isn't the worst starting QB in the division thanks to whatever the hell is causing the jets to keep starting Zach Wilson

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Kansas City has Kelce who might be the best pass catcher in the league though. They looked terrible in that one game without him earlier this year.

The issue is, however you feel about Mac, we haven't surrounded him with what the good/average QB's are getting.

The point might be that KC had a better group of WRs and was lacking on the OL. KC didn't resign T Hill and instead spent the money on the OL. Can't pay a top QB, top WRs and a Top OL unless the QB is still on a rookie contract or the first few years of an extended deal with balloon years on it.

Right now the Pats OL is better but not great. The WRs are lacking, and Mac is on a rookie deal. Luckily we didn't mortgage our cap so we can sign some guys for the next QB.

 

[sb1]

Yeah don’t tell me the receivers are fine. This is a joke.

I can’t wait for my team to have an NFL caliber GM again.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

“Mahomes is actually good at QB so that doesn’t help your argument.”

Lol

You can get by with a great QB and average receivers but not an average QB with average receivers.

 

[Trolltolls]

Mac hasn't been that good, but you are beyond delusional if you think it's just him. This team sucks and will take years to fix. You can be in denial all you want and pretend the team will turn a 180 and win the superbowl next year with a competent QB, but the roster is crap and its time to get used to it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It semantics.
Brady elevated vs Bledsoe was holding it back.
I think it’s the latter because it didn’t go from ok to great it went from mediocre to slightly above average

25th of 31 in scoring in 2000, followed by a 20 burger over the first two games in 2001, isn’t mediocre. They went from dogshit to above average. Above average with that offensive cast can only be achieved by a elite quarterback.

 

[Ring 6]

25th of 31 in scoring in 2000, followed by a 20 burger over the first two games in 2001, isn’t mediocre. They went from dogshit to above average. Above average with that offensive cast can only be achieved by an elite quarterback.

Brady was not an elite QB in 2001. The 2000 team was nowhere near the same as the 2001 team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady was not an elite QB in 2001. The 2000 team was nowhere near the same as the 2001 team.

Really? Which specific changes were implemented to the offense in game 3 of 2001, that weren’t there in the previous 18 games, which account for the drastic offense improvement, besides Brady?

What you mean to say is the offense wasn’t elite. And this true, because they had very little talent besides Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

Really? Which specific changes were implemented to the offense in game 3 of 2001, that weren’t there in the previous 18 games, which account for the drastic offense improvement, besides Brady?

What you mean to say is the offense wasn’t elite. And this true, because they had very little talent besides Brady.

There was a dramatic roster overhaul from 2000 to 2001 but I suppose you aren’t a fan yet so don’t remember.

 

[SEA_Pat]

So you're jealous, verging on vindictive, because the guy has been more successful athletically and financially than you. My view is those who are successful are as entitled to be treated fairly as anybody else, not to mention that properly supporting Mac was Belichick's job.. We live in an age where the response to others' success is resentment, and a presumption that their success is somehow at our expense, sort of a cheapshot child's take on the Marxist perspective, the font these days of so much foolishness. This is a decadent view, in my judgment. The more technical term is ressentiment. You could look it up.

Should you choose to relent on your resentment of Mac, I would commend Bill Belichick to your attention as one genuinely deserving of your condemnation in this matter.

I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

I said "he's got a foundation from which his future is secure. That's great and I'm happy for him to achieve that despite his inability to be an NFL QB." Where from that do you derive that I'm jealous or vindictive? I'm happy he's going to have such a good foundation to start his young life; enough money to buy a house, a degree from a decent state school, money to invest or start a business, go into the sports industry in some manner, whatever. I was not happy that he was our QB because he's shown he can't handle the job. That's okay, this is true for all but around 15 people in the USA. At least he had a shot at it before he showed he wasn't up to the task and got paid well along the way.

That this is somehow Marxist...I don't think you understand that either. But seeing as I live in Laos, I am probably much more acquainted with those aspects of politics than you are.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

There was a dramatic roster overhaul from 2000 to 2001 but I suppose you aren’t a fan yet so don’t remember.

On offense? Why not list all those high impact players?

 

[SEA_Pat]

im sure he'll make long career out of being a viable backup

I don't think he will be that either, although he'll possibly get another contract on another team to give it a try.

My point was that he's good already having made it to the first round of the NFL draft and gotten a commensurate contract worth millions of dollars. That's a pretty substantial achievement and starting point for a young man's life in the USA and he can do pretty well from that point given such a start. Why would anyone feel sorry for him though?

 

[Rob0729]

“Mahomes is actually good at QB so that doesn’t help your argument.”

Lol

Comparing Mahomes to other QBs like going to a bar and rating women there and determining if they are hot or not based on how they compare to Margot Robbie.

But hey, you go with your argument that Mac Jones sucks because he can’t make throws like Patrick Mahomes who has just as bad receivers as Mac. It is an excellent argument.

You know Mac isn’t very mobile either because he can’t run like Lamar Jackson.

 

[Ring 6]

On offense? Why not list all those high impact players?

Every starter but Troy brown and Joe andruzzi on offense changed from 00 to 01.