Business Insider "BB's Drafting of DBs Is Killing The Pats"

[andrewgarrr]

Rule changes killed secondaries everywhere. End of story.

 

[tonyto3690]

The Patriots hit a huge draft lull in the 2006-2009 seasons. It was a general lull, with many positions affected. Some positions (DB) have continued to have failures since then.

That's where many of the problems have come from. Belittling the person who wrote the article, or the site it was on, doesn't change the underlying premise, which is that BB's poor DB drafting has had a strong negative impact upon the team. Not only should that be understood as a given, however, his FA work in the defensive secondary has also been a huge part of the problem. Defending the Patriots based upon successes in the 2001-2005 era doesn't do anything to change the reality of the failures since then.

The LB replacement struggles began in 2005 (and began mostly with attempting to bring in veteran replacements) and it took until 2012 to get it mostly fixed.
The DB replacement struggles began in 2007 and are ongoing.

The failures in those two areas alone may already have cost the team multiple SB championships. It is what it is. Killing the messenger(s) isn't going to change that.

I don't think anyone is saying to get rid of Belichick or that Belichick is awful.

It's just that if drafting of DBs wasn't so ridiculously bad we very easily could have won two (or more) championships since 2005.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I don't think anyone is saying to get rid of Belichick or that Belichick is awful.

It's just that if drafting of DBs wasn't so ridiculously bad we very easily could have won two (or more) championships since 2005.

If Asante catches a 'gimmie' interception...
If Tyree's helmet was greased pre-game...
If Seymour actually brings Eli down...
If Welker hauls in a difficult over the shoulder throw...
If they don't try that stupid flea flicker to Slater...

I can keep going?

 

[Snake Eyes]

If Asante catches a 'gimmie' interception...
If Tyree's helmet was greased pre-game...
If Seymour actually brings Eli down...
If Welker hauls in a difficult over the shoulder throw...
If they don't try that stupid flea flicker to Slater...

I can keep going?

What's your point? With better DBs how many opposing scoring drives would have stalled?

How many extra turnovers would we have gotten?

How many of the plays you mentioned been rendered moot because of stronger Pats DBs?

 

[andrewgarrr]

What's your point? With better DBs how many opposing scoring drives would have stalled?

How many extra turnovers would we have gotten?

How many of the plays you mentioned been rendered moot because of stronger Pats DBs?

My point is...

One can generate a seemingly infinite amount of 'what if' scenarios which would have more directly influenced the games' outcomes.

If you are arguing the correlation between the 'what if scenarios' I suggested and SB victories are weaker than the correlation to the scenarios you proposed... you are seriously misguided.

It is unquestionable that better DB drafting would have led to a stronger secondary... by definition of draft success. It is still unquestionable that said better drafting would have improved the effectiveness of the Patriots' defense in the recent past. It is however more suspect to extrapolate draft success into championships - certainly more suspect than a depth-chart-filler WR making the catch of a lifetime.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The truth of it is there just aren't enough great cornerbacks to go around. I'd argue after QB it is the hardest position to draft for success. Look at next years free agent list and it pretty much a empty cabinet. Tillman is going to be 33 who would be a great short term answer. But how much do you pay someone like that? Talib is one the better options out there due to youth and experience with our system.

I think there are plenty of other coaches that miss all the time at db, it's just they are not around because they've been fired already before we can see how bad they really are. You look at a team like Seattle's recent success and you have to wonder how much that front 7 contributes to the secondaries dominance.

No doubt he has been bad at drafting them. I just think with a more aggressive front 7 coupled with a running will go a long way to fixing those woes. Like some have mentioned it is a pass happy league right now with the rule changes. Honestly, of the 32 teams in the nfl there might be 7 good secondaries and maybe 3 elite ones. The rest are between garbage and mediocre.

 

[reflexblue]

If Asante catches a 'gimmie' interception...
If Tyree's helmet was greased pre-game...
If Seymour actually brings Eli down...
If Welker hauls in a difficult over the shoulder throw...
If they don't try that stupid flea flicker to Slater...

I can keep going?

these are truly are "what if" scenarios.If the patriots hit on a couple of CB picks maybe they don't have to worry about your examples. Its pretty obvious to anyone that isn't a homer that the team has a problem identifying quality DB's, along with WR's. I think there are many posters here that could have a better percentage of picking starting db's and wr's thatn the pats.

 

[stumeister]

If I'm not mistaken don't most people complain about his drafting of Wide Receivers? With some possible prospects this year at WR is this guy just looking for some place to rag on BB?

If WR and DB drafting have been so bad besides TB what got us so many wins?

 

[50-yard-line]

these are truly are "what if" scenarios.If the patriots hit on a couple of CB picks maybe they don't have to worry about your examples. Its pretty obvious to anyone that isn't a homer that the team has a problem identifying quality DB's, along with WR's. I think there are many posters here that could have a better percentage of picking starting db's and wr's thatn the pats.

Except...Assante Samuel WAS a great hit on CB and he flubbed the Superbowl by missing an easy interception, right?

The 'if only" we had drafted better scenario is probably among the silliest arguments ever.

Second to this nonsensical assertion, though: "I think there are many posters here that could have a better percentage of picking starting db's and wr's thatn the pats."

Come on, man.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The Patriots hit a huge draft lull in the 2006-2009 seasons. It was a general lull, with many positions affected. Some positions (DB) have continued to have failures since then.

That's where many of the problems have come from. Belittling the person who wrote the article, or the site it was on, doesn't change the underlying premise, which is that BB's poor DB drafting has had a strong negative impact upon the team. Not only should that be understood as a given, however, his FA work in the defensive secondary has also been a huge part of the problem. Defending the Patriots based upon successes in the 2001-2005 era doesn't do anything to change the reality of the failures since then.

The LB replacement struggles began in 2005 (and began mostly with attempting to bring in veteran replacements) and it took until 2012 to get it mostly fixed.
The DB replacement struggles began in 2007 and are ongoing.

The failures in those two areas alone may already have cost the team multiple SB championships. It is what it is. Killing the messenger(s) isn't going to change that.

There is a well known term for what you are doing. It is called "Monday Morning Quarterbacking".

I followed the Browns as a kid and I saw the backbiting begin on Paul Brown. "He can't win the Big One!" or "The Game has passed him by!".

Then a new dingleberry owner fired him. He came back with a vengeance and his own expansion club, and built them into a SB contender. The Browns never recovered. His assistant eaked out a winning season with the leftovers, but that was all the Browns ever did until BB arrived, and the dingleberry owner cut his legs out from under him, and Clevelands heart, too.

The same old ***** was a used on Don Shula. " What have you done lately? ", or "Shula can't build a complete team." Some people are never happy, unless they have something to Bi...ch about .

The Dolphins haven't done a single thing since he has been gone. The great Coach of LSU and Alabama, arrived to fanfare, saw what an abominable mess the Phish had become, and fled back to the colleges and more Nationals Titles.

I don't want that to happen here with Belichick. I remember the 2-14 seasons.

So I recommend to all you MMQBs, take a short walk off a tall bridge.

 

[andrewgarrr]

these are truly are "what if" scenarios.If the patriots hit on a couple of CB picks maybe they don't have to worry about your examples. Its pretty obvious to anyone that isn't a homer that the team has a problem identifying quality DB's, along with WR's. I think there are many posters here that could have a better percentage of picking starting db's and wr's thatn the pats.

The Patriots organization has mostly failed in converting DB draftees into successful professionals - regardless of draft position. This is not my point. My problem is extrapolating DB draft success into Super Bowl victories. How does one blame drafting before EXPLICIT on-the-field failures by non-DBs?

Also, what is the league-wide success rate in developing draft and RFA DBs into multiple year starters (normalized for draft position)? We know the Patriots are bad... but are they bad relative to the other 31 NFL teams? Is our closeness to the organization and general fandom distorting our views? Someone get Bill Barnwell or the like on this...

 

[supafly]

The Pats have been to two AFCCGs and a Super Bowl in the past two seasons. Killing the Pats is an overstatement.

I agree. I don't have any problem whatsoever with the premise of the article itself as there is a ton of truth to it, however the term "killing the Pats" is overboard in my opinion. It almost sounds like we're talking about a team who has had losing records lately.

Unfortunately we'll probably have to go back to the well yet again next spring at both CB/S, so the law of averages and all that....hopefully it rings true.

 

[50-yard-line]

The followup article on rankings gives the Pats a C for the draft, the second worst of all 32 teams...(Dallas C-)...Considering that they were one of only 8 teams to have all their draft picks make the roster, that should tell you a lot about BI and their football acumen....

No kidding, right?

A "C" for a draft (and subsequent signings) that got them Boyce, Dobson, Thompkins, Sudfeld, Buchanon, Beauharnis, Collins, Ryan and Harmon...

Too early to tell how well these picks actually pan out, but it sure as hell looks better than a "C" to me!

 

[goheels22002]

Belichick's drafting defensive backs is "killing the Patriots."

Bill Belichick has 18 playoff wins as a head coach. Those with nine, half as many, include Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Jimmy Johnson and John Harbaugh.

Two more playoff wins and Bill Belichick will tie Tom Landry for most all-time.

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Belichick's drafting defensive backs is "killing the Patriots."

Bill Belichick has 18 playoff wins as a head coach. Those with nine, half as many, include Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, John Madden, Tony Dungy, Jimmy Johnson and John Harbaugh.

Two more playoff wins and Bill Belichick will tie Tom Landry for most all-time.

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Were going to make that 3 wins higher. Wouldn't it be something, Brady wins his 4th SB solidifying his goat status and bill taking the lead in playoffs wins?

 

[Oswlek]

Seems like a good place to put this.

1. Patriots 27.33
2. Steelers 24.17
3. Colts 24.08
5. Ravens 22.08
8. Broncos 19.25
12. Jets 18.17
22. Dolphins 13.58
30. Bills 10.25
32. Lions 7.58

That is the average draft slot since 2002 for a select group of teams, ignoring draft movements and just focusing on original positioning.

I don't expect anyone to be surprised that NE is #1, but by more than 3 spots? That is significant, and remarkable that, despite the draft lull from 2006-2008 (more like a catastrophe, really) and the easy-to-recall gaffes, NE is still unquestionably a top 5 drafting team in Bill's tenure and in the last 4 years.

And can you imagine nearly averaging a top 5 pick for a decade?!

Credit goes to German_Patriot over on Patriots Planet for doing the legwork behind these numbers.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Interesting take on BB recent drafting of Defensive Backs in Business Insider today;

Bill Belichick's History Of Drafting Defensive Backs - Business Insider

this is actually a rework of Peters Kings blurb.

This is actually a rework of my blurb.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/840659-can-we-fix-secondary.html
We can add some more names to that secondary..RasIDowling etc

 

[Brady6]

The article is really awful, one of the worst I have ever read, that said Belichick has as we all know struggled with drafting DB’s over his tenure in here. I think the issue is where he is drafting his DB’s, he seems resistant to use a first round draft pick on a DB, the only time he did was McCourty which coincidently is probably the best DB he has drafted. Good cornerbacks go early, outside of QB and LT they’re probably the most sought after position in terms of drafting, If you look at the past 4 years you see the elite CB go early, and then the CB taken after are hit or miss, Dowling is a great example of a guy who if healthy during his time in college we’d of never had a chance to draft at 33 overall, he would of went a lot earlier, that is the issue at hand, once you get past those CB taken in the top 25, you have guys who have injury concerns, are slightly undersized, or have character issues, those are risky picks.

2013: 2013 NFL Draft Results by Position - Cornerbacks - ESPN
2012: 2012 NFL Draft Results by Position - Cornerbacks - ESPN
2011: 2011 NFL Draft Results by Position - Cornerbacks - ESPN
2010: 2010 NFL Draft Results by Position - Cornerbacks - ESPN
2009: 2009 NFL Draft Results by Position - Cornerbacks - ESPN

If Belichick really wants to draft an impact DB he needs to stop trying to stockpile 2nd and 3rd round selections and pool those draft picks and go up and draft one top prospect, this is a position that appears not to be the best to use the quantity of over quality model which Belichick finds great success with at other positions.

 

[Deus Irae]

There is a well known term for what you are doing. It is called "Monday Morning Quarterbacking".

No, the term is called "analysis".

 

[Triumph]

Wasn't McCourty having a bit of a resurgence at CB last year? Sure I saw a stat saying completion % against him was in the mid 30s.

It's just a case of he's a good Corner but a borderline elite Safety.

NO

The Pats played Jax late last season and Mcourty was moved back to CB for the day. Some JAG QB had a career day vs the Pats secondary.

I have yet to see this Elite Safety play. Perhaps we will see some week 4 when the Pats face a post season offense.