Browns trade Shelton to Patriots

[PapaTrips]

The Browns also have K/Cs fifth round pick around 23rd (159th) as well as their own. Does anyone know if the specific pick has been determined?

 

[maust]

The question about Shelton is whether he's going to be more like Branch circa 2015-2016 or Branch circa 2017.

So long as he's not like 2012 Branch. His 5'9" 180 lb ass would killed at NT

 

[Wozzy]

Most players who suck on one team also suck on the next.
Most players who are average on one team are also average on the next.
The volatility of successful team change is usually with high end players. Shelton has not been a high end player, to date.

Is ^ that a fact? Sounds like an opinion. Some data to back that up might make the case. In the meantime Rodney Harrison, Moss and Corey Dillon were all "washed up and over the hill" when the Patriots traded for them... how'd that work out?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I wanted Mingo to work out so bad

Just wanted to hear on the PA

"BarkEEEEEEVIOUS MINGOOOOOOO"

Alas, having a made-up adjective as a first name does not always translate to production

ed.: this was in reply to a post I forgot to quote. High hopes for the Shelton pickup.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is ^ that a fact? Sounds like an opinion. Some data to back that up might make the case. In the meantime Rodney Harrison, Moss and Corey Dillon were all "washed up and over the hill" when the Patriots traded for them... how'd that work out?

And Springs, Galloway, Johnson, Haynesworth, Holt and many others didn't work out so, other than "BUT PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!", what's your point?

 

[ashley]

Our run defense should now be much improved!!!!

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

And Springs, Galloway, Johnson, Haynesworth, Holt and many others didn't work out so, other than "BUT PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!", what's your point?

None mentioned by either of you here were 24 when acquired. They aren't really relevant. Shelton fits the system as well. Whether he produces is a separate issue. I think he will, we'll see.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hopefully we’re getting the 2016 version as opposed to the 2017 version. If there’s any team that can turn him around, it’s this one.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Haynesworth part deux

Not even close.

 

[maust]

And Springs, Galloway, Johnson, Haynesworth, Holt and many others didn't work out so, other than "BUT PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!", what's your point?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

And Springs, Galloway, Johnson, Haynesworth, Holt and many others didn't work out so, other than "BUT PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!", what's your point?

Not high on the move. Idk what to make of the move yet but it seems like we are trying to catch lightning in a bottle. He had a down year last season.

 

[Deus Irae]

None mentioned by either of you here were 24 when acquired. They aren't really relevant. Shelton fits the system as well. Whether he produces is a separate issue. I think he will, we'll see.

Were Moss, Dillon or Harrison 24 when they came over? I'm asking because those were the names I was responding to. If not (and they weren't), then what's not relevant is your response.

I get it. Some people like the move and some are more hesitant. That's to be expected with a player who's been a disappointment, but not a bust:

Half empty view - He's been a disappointment and the odds are that it probably won't change much
Half full view - He's young and just needs a change of team

This one's pretty simple. Shelton's being brought in to upgrade the position after the 2017 Branch played as if he retired in 2016. If he does that, and shows himself capable in the Patriots system, it will have been a good trade for the Patriots. If he doesn't, it'll have been a bad trade for the Patriots. But this isn't a no-brainer in either direction right now, and "He's awesome!" is just as silly as "He sucks!", at this stage of his career.

 

[TomPatriot]

Most players who suck on one team also suck on the next.
Most players who are average on one team are also average on the next.
The volatility of successful team change is usually with high end players. Shelton has not been a high end player, to date.

What’s a high end player? He should be a significant upgrade over Branch, Butler and Francois.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Were Moss, Dillon or Harrison 24 when they came over? I'm asking because those were the names I was responding to. If not (and they weren't), then what's not relevant is your response.

I get it. Some people like the move and some are more hesitant. That's to be expected with a player who's been a disappointment, but not a bust:

Half empty view - He's been a disappointment and the odds are that it probably won't change much
Half full view - He's young and just needs a change of team

This one's pretty simple. He's being brought in to upgrade the position after the 2017 Branch played as if he retired in 2016. If he does that, and shows himself capable in the Patriots system, it will have been a good trade for the Patriots. If he doesn't, it'll have been a bad trade for the Patriots. But this isn't a no-brainer in either direction right now, and "He's awesome!" is just as silly as "He sucks!", at this stage of his career.

He had a nice 2016 but this season was dissapointing although idk if that's the change in scheme.

 

[50-yard-line]

Most players who suck on one team also suck on the next.
Most players who are average on one team are also average on the next.
The volatility of successful team change is usually with high end players. Shelton has not been a high end player, to date.

And it's often scheme - Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy

Looks like Shelton was doing pretty well until the last change. This is a typical Patriot's move...they do 3 kinds:

1. Take a risk with injury - Gronkowski, Easley...
2. Take a proven vet with issues...Moss, Ocho
3. Grab a guy who'll fit their scheme better than the one he was playing.

The common denominator in these typical Pats moves is "cheap," which comes with drafting at the bottom of every round.

Shelton probably won't set the world on fire, I agree, but if it helps them even a little in going to 3rd and 8 instead of 3rd and 3, I'm in.

 

[Deus Irae]

He had a nice 2016 but this season was dissapointing although idk if that's the change in scheme.

He doesn't need to be a monster. He just needs to be stout against the run. If he can do that, it's a win for the Patriots.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What’s a high end player? He should be a significant upgrade over Branch, Butler and Francois.

Butler is not a run stuffer. He is an interior rusher. Different kind of player who will improve.

 

[Deus Irae]

And it's often scheme - Vrabel, Ninkovich, Van Noy

Looks like Shelton was doing pretty well until the last change. This is a typical Patriot's move...they do 3 kinds:

1. Take a risk with injury - Gronkowski, Easley...
2. Take a proven vet with issues...Moss, Ocho
3. Grab a guy who'll fit their scheme better than the one he was playing.

The common denominator in these typical Pats moves is "cheap," which comes with drafting at the bottom of every round.

Shelton probably won't set the world on fire, I agree, but if it helps them even a little in going to 3rd and 8 instead of 3rd and 3, I'm in.

This is similar to the Ealy trade, but I think this one has a better chance of success.

 

[holyredeemer]

If Miguel is correct (and it's extremely rare that he's not), the 5th-year options for Shelton and Brown are about $7M each. So, by exercising those options, the Pats could have both through 2019 for a combined APY of $9M ($4.5M/year each).

When the Pats re-visit the situation in 2020, the cap could be as high as $200M.

That’s a phenomenal deal, especially if they both play well on a contract year! Gives us sometime to hopefully be prepared in the event of one or both of them leaving in a few years. Either way, getting a proven solid, young player with potential upside is probably going to pan out better had we used the pick instead.

 

[50-yard-line]

But this isn't a no-brainer in either direction right now, and "He's awesome!" is just as silly as "He sucks!", at this stage of his career.

On paper, I see this as a no-brainer for the Pats. Doesn't mean it will work out. Ealy was a no-brainer for the Pats last year and it didn't work out.

I think there's a lot less risk to this signing than that one. Maybe he hasn't been great, but he's been better than what we already had there and HIS best position fits BB's scheme perfectly.