Brandon Lloyd meeting with 49ers: Patriots are gonna blow it

[Dutchmaster617]

Ok lets look at the Giants. Why did they win the Superbowl this year? They had a positive turnover ratio in the playoffs. Period. In their first 14 games they turned it over a ton and were 7-7. They started taking care of the ball and went on a run. And some of that was luck, which isnt a bad thing you need luck, but they fumbled 3 times in the Superbowl and didn't lose one of them whereas we committed a stupid safety and Brady under threw Gronk, so we lost by 4. The guy that made the biggest catch in that game likely won't even be back with the team, that's how much they value him.

They also have WRs and pass rushers who are good now, not in 2003. They wouldn't have had a chance with Branch/Ocho making sideline catches and Shaun Ellis rushing Brady. We need a young star in those two areas.

 

[PatsFan2]

If no Lloyd..then I guess go for Wallace...And I asked this earlier..no one has ever really said if the pats even wanted Lloyd in the first place. It as all coming from lloyd

People think you are crazy but Tom Brady ain't getting any younger Four years more max if we are lucky and BB ain't Coaching forever. If they dont get Brandon Lloyd with all the other options gone one have to wonder. Mike Wallace fits the Bill the Patriots can do it...Wes Welker might just be here for one year anyway and Slot WR's are a dime a dozen. Wallace give us legitimate Number1 Threat for years to come. I would invest in a Top outside WR any day of the week over a Slot wide out.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Guys, I understand the hand-wringing, really I do. But let's look at the dreaded "value" issue the team does. Who ever they bring in is 3rd or 4th on this list behind Gronkowski, Hernandez, and Welker in the pecking order. I understand the difference of position, outside the numbers, and the whole stretching the field issue. IMO, they are going to look at paying no more than #3 receiver money for a guy that's going to be a 3rd or 4th option. Do they need an outside the #'s guy? Yep. Are they going to pay #1 WR money when they are at the table with the guy with most catches in the league? Nope.

This. If we spend money on anything is should be on defense but there arent really any viable play makers out there. Plus we are going to need a ton of money to redo Gronk and Hernandez in a few years, if they let either of them hit FA they're nuts.

 

[jays52]

Mike Wallace rivals Clay Matthews for OMFG IS HE OVERRATED!!! supremacy right now.

 

[PatsSox363804]

They also have WRs and pass rushers who are good now, not in 2003. They wouldn't have had a chance with Branch/Ocho making sideline catches and Shaun Ellis rushing Brady. We need a young star in those two areas.

I agree with the pass rushers. Receivers? Sure, I guess. They got lucky with Cruz, and Manningham was a third round pick. Nicks was the only guy on that team who was supposed to be "the" guy and we suck at drafting that guy, no question. It would be nice if we got lucky with a Cruz, or like New Orleans did with Colston, you could argue that we lucked out getting Hernandez in the 4th though. I'm not saying we don't need an outside guy, we just shouldn't be breaking the bank on it when we have a bigger need on defense.

 

[PatsFan2]

This. If we spend money on anything is should be on defense but there arent really any viable play makers out there. Plus we are going to need a ton of money to redo Gronk and Hernandez in a few years, if they let either of them hit FA they're nuts.

Gronk is more the keeper Hernandez is Beefed up WR Teams can always find players like him.

 

[DaBruinz]

so you're saying that when they had the oppurtunity to draft Ingram, Amukamara, Jon Baldwin or even trading up a couple of picks to grab Ryan Kerrigan (who was taken just one pick before the Patriots) that at that moment you said, NO!!! take Nate Solder. How dare you call me out you hypocrite, I'm sure you were sitting watching the draft too and were pissed off at that moment at the Nate Solder pick. You're truly full of it, you were upset just like everyone else that they didn't take a skill player or a pass rusher. The Patriots could have waited to draft a tackle especially after the year Light had. BTW I'm using Lloyd as an example of the Patriots blowing it in free agency. Here's a guy who's a PERFECT fit for their system and stretch the field and the Patriots just say, Nope, no thanks to him, no thanks to Vincent Jackson, no thanks to Reggie Wayne, no thanks to Robert Meachem.

Light wasn't under contract when the draft occurred. So to say that it made no sense is you re-writing history. Also, there was NOT another OT the Pats could have taken later. Indy wanted Solder as well and had to settle for Costanzo. And he looked awful last year for them.

Joker wasn't pissed off when it the Pats took Solder. As for Ingram, Amakamura, and Baldwin, you clearly don't have enough information. The Pats didn't have Ingram rated that highly. Baldwin had a lot of character red flags.

To say that Lloyd is "perfect" for the system is you you the fan talking without any real knowledge of it. Yes, many of us have mentioned that Lloyd has been successful in the McDaniels offense, but, do any of you believe that it was 100% the Pats offense? Do you really believe that Orton and Bradford were able to make the same pre and post snap reads and calls that Brady does?

 

[Steve102]

Gronk is more the keeper Hernandez is Beefed up WR Teams can always find players like him.

Players like Hernandez? Yeah, they grow on tress. :wha:

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Good defenses are always going to hold offenses to low scoring games. I don't think that this should be a discussion on net points accumulated through player acquisition. The key is to be able to execute a drive that is a counter punch to what the defense is doing to you. Balance. In the case of the Patriots, it's not a vertical threat, it's a horizontal threat who can compete in 7-15 yards and occasionally get one on busted coverage.

I see your point but I think we have tried that the past couple of years. One deep pass would have put the game away instead of 40 short passes and one drop that ruins it all. Its frustrating that we have to bust our ass to drive with two nonathletic skeletons while Eli chucks it 80+ yards in the final minute.

 

[DaBruinz]

i also dont understand why he needs to visit he already played there...

Because they have had a couple new coaches since he last played there..

 

[Wilfork#75]

At this point I suspect the Steelers would be happy getting the first and saving the money.

I have a feeling Wallace will be a Steeler this year, get his 2.7 million and get his big money next year as a UFA. With the salaries going out now teams are going to be very hesitant to give up a cap-friendly 1st rounder AND pay out a long-term $11-12 million-per-year contract.

I think the Steelers would absolutely be happy to get a 1st for Wallace because it will be very difficult for them to keep him long term. They also don't seem to have any trouble developing WR's from the draft and they always seem to hit in the 1st round. Get an extra 1st round pick and save cap space by not signing him to a big contract, which should allow you to re-sign his teammate Antonio Brown in a few years, who I believe is the better WR.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mike Wallace rivals Clay Matthews for OMFG IS HE OVERRATED!!! supremacy right now.

How can a 25 year old receiver who over the last two years has averaged 70 catches, 1200 yds, 9 TDs with a career per catch average of 18yds be overrated?

Hes gotten better every year he has been in the league. If the Pats landed him I'd be pretty pleased.

The larger question is can he be productive in this system, be a good locker room guy and not break the bank so other needs can't be addressed.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I think some of the lack of production was due Brady locking in on receivers he trusts, as he is prone to do. Ocho still has the physical skills to play at a high level and I'm just hoping that after an entire year in the system he's ready to become a much bigger part of the offense. No reason to believe he won't be better this year.

Edit: And I realize that he didn't get a lot of reps, but it doesn't change my point.

Honestly I think this is a bigger problem than people realize. I look at the safety in the Superbowl and Green Ellis was open underneath. In 03 Brady dumps it off and takes what BJGE gives us. Rodgers and Brees both dump it off today. Brady tends to lock in on guys now, and we know it was especially bad with Moss.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Because they have had a couple new coaches since he last played there..

yeah but still its not like he has never been to the facility...

like i said its all a negotiating ploy... and if san fran overpays for him.. it is what it is...

 

[JackBauer]

Man, people really fell hard for the troll thread.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Honestly I think this is a bigger problem than people realize. I look at the safety in the Superbowl and Green Ellis was open underneath. In 03 Brady dumps it off and takes what BJGE gives us. Rodgers and Brees both dump it off today. Brady tends to lock in on guys now, and we know it was especially bad with Moss.

That was the case with Moss and WW back in 08 and 09 because they did not have anyone else.

The Pats had 4 players with over 50 catches and three with over 79. He completed almost 66% of his passes.

Gronk, AH and WW aren't bad guys to lock in on.

 

[jays52]

How can a 25 year old receiver who over the last two years has averaged 70 catches, 1200 yds, 9 TDs with a career per catch average of 18yds be overrated?

Because he only does two things? He runs a streak and a hitch. It's a jab-cross. Corners are playing him with such a loose cushion he'll hitch off of that, and if they play him tighter he'll try to make it a foot race. Occasionally they'll run him on a skinny post between the corner and safety in a cover-2. That's it. His footwork and relative quickness is actually pretty poor and he isn't very good at handfighting when he plays a legit corner. He loses to really good corners and he can't run the really hard to defend routes that the Patriots love. He's got great statistics but compared to say an Andre Johnson it's apples and oranges.

 

[Deus Irae]

How can a 25 year old receiver who over the last two years has averaged 70 catches, 1200 yds, 9 TDs with a career per catch average of 18yds be overrated?

Hes gotten better every year he has been in the league. If the Pats landed him I'd be pretty pleased.

The larger question is can he be productive in this system, be a good locker room guy and not break the bank so other needs can't be addressed.

Wallace is an excellent receiving threat. He's a player who requires opponents to game plan for him, and requires opponents to defend the entire field. And, after the past two seasons, that's something that's definitely not overrated.

 

[Snake Eyes]

.......or just keep going to Super Bowls......

When was the last time we won one? Oh yeah, it's been a while.

 

[Steve102]

Wallace is an excellent receiving threat. He's a player who requires opponents to game plan for him, and requires opponents to defend the entire field. And, after the past two seasons, that's something that's definitely not overrated.

Because he only does two things? He runs a streak and a hitch. It's a jab-cross. Corners are playing him with such a loose cushion he'll hitch off of that, and if they play him tighter he'll try to make it a foot race. Occasionally they'll run him on a skinny post between the corner and safety in a cover-2. That's it. His footwork and relative quickness is actually pretty poor and he isn't very good at handfighting when he plays a legit corner. He loses to really good corners and he can't run the really hard to defend routes that the Patriots love. He's got great statistics but compared to say an Andre Johnson it's apples and oranges.

Talk about two sides to a coin.