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Brandon Lloyd meeting with 49ers: Patriots are gonna blow it

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Can you do me a favor and please read what follows very slowly, carefully and try to understand it.

Not signing a big money FA does not mean choosing not to improve the talent on your team. It means choosing to improve MORE spots on the roster incrementally than one more substantially.
This one player makes the difference because one play makes the difference crap ignores that if you spend 15 mill on one player, you have less players in 5-10 other positions, who are making the exact blown plays you are talking about and failing to make the one play you are talking about.

We all get that you think a big name is the only way to show you care about winning, but you are just wrong. We aren't winning the SB by winning the public opinion poll of who was most aggressive in throwing cash blindly at Free Agents. The Jets, Redskins and Eagles can do that and be disappointed when the team hits the field.
I would much rather 'lose March' and build a solid, deep, versatile, consistent, quality football team that lacks deficiencies. Those are the ones that win on the field.

Well said Andy, some of these guys think we can spend the money on a Mike Wallace and have the same 51 other guys if we didnt sign him. Spending 10-12 million on one player has a ripple effect on the rest of the roster.
 
Can we just let Lloyd go about his business? Maybe I'm the only person who isn't sipping his kool aid right now. I have a hard time believing he's 'that guy' that everyone wants him to be.
 
Can we just let Lloyd go about his business? Maybe I'm the only person who isn't sipping his kool aid right now. I have a hard time believing he's 'that guy' that everyone wants him to be.

You have a hard time believing Lloyd could be a #2 for the Patriots?

Sounds like you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
 
You have a hard time believing Lloyd could be a #2 for the Patriots?

Sounds like you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
I agree with you, I'm being a contrarian. It's not like I've been saying the same thing since his name first got brought up. I just want to be a contrarian.
 
I think Lloyd is a good WR and could perform well in NE.

However, I would only be happy with his signing here if it was 3-4 years 15-18 million.
 
I am getting Leigh Bodden flashbacks. Not that I think Lloyd will wash out like Bodden did in a new deal, but people on this board is reacting the same way.

When Bodden became a free agent, people freaked the first couple of days when Duante Robinson signed a huge deal (which he totally hasn't lived up to and good example why you shouldn't jump the first day of free agency to overpay top talent) because the Pats were "going to lose" Bodden or have to pay him $8-10 million a year because the Pats misjudged the market and his price has gone up and someone was going to offer him that much. The reality was that there wasn't much of a market for Bodden and the Pats got him for significantly less than what people thought. He ended up getting a four year, $22 million contract ($5.5 million a year). Yes, it turned out to be a bad deal for the Pats in a big way, but if the Pats got the 2009 Bodden the contract would have been a steal.

I see the same thing happening with Lloyd (hopefully without the post contract signing results). People on this board is overrating his market and how much he is going to get. The fact is while teams are chasing after back ups like Laurent Robinson, Eddie Royal, Mario Manningham, and Chaz Schiens; the market for Lloyd is non-existent except for a supposed visit to the 49ers who are having every WR under the sun in. Lloyd has scared away many potential suitors by publicly courting the Patriots. Lloyd may only make sense for the Pats because he has only performed consistently while being a team player for McDaniels.

I think Lloyd will end up signing with the Patriots. I also think he will get a lot less than a lot of people think he will. I think his deal will ultimately be similar or even less than Reggie Wayne got and nowhere near what Pierre Garcon got.
 
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Can we just let Lloyd go about his business? Maybe I'm the only person who isn't sipping his kool aid right now. I have a hard time believing he's 'that guy' that everyone wants him to be.

Lloyd got basically 1,000 yards last year with no QB throwing to him. I think he can repeat that kind of performance with the Pats. That is all the Pats need with Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez.
 
BTW, if the Pats are going to offer anything to Wallace, it won't be for a few weeks or even down to the wire. That is how making offers to tendered players work. The other team has seven days to match the offer so you don't want to be placed on hold while you are waiting for an answer. You also hope the other team start to commit whatever available cap space they have to other free agents so it makes it tougher for them to match their offer.

The only time a franchised or RFA gets an offer quickly is if the team who owns their rights are shopping him and want to free up the money they have reserved in a tender quickly. This isn't the case with Wallace.

So condemning the Pats for not making an offer to Wallace at this point is just plain ignorant. If the Pats plan to do it, there is no reason to even try for at least a week or two or longer.

RFA's cannot even be contacted or negotiated with until a full 5 days into the free agency period.

The first day that the Patriots (or anyone) could possibly even contact Wallace wouldn't even be until Saturday, which is what you basically said too.

A guy like Wallace (or Hoyer for other interested teams) wouldn't even be on the market until Saturday at the earliest.
 
offer him what Reggie Wayne got and let's get it over with!!
 
One thing has nothing to do with the other, the relevant questions should be: would the team have done as well without those free agents in 07, and would the team have done better this year with more/better free agents?

I wanted Lloyd then and I want him now, and I think it's a pretty safe bet that he would have been more effective than Ocho, which would have improved our chances.

That 07 Team was the most fun and exciting Team that I had ever seen. We were less than two minutes away from the best season ever and a circus catch by a second string yahoo did them in, Yep liked the 07 Team better than this last one. O7 was great O but a much better D.

The build-through-the-Draft Koolaiders, or "Lets see how low keyed FAs can make a difference so we can show the NFL how frugal we are" campers resent the fact that BB proved he could bring in top FAs and make the Team one of the best ever. Why the hate? Who the hell cares.

It was a pleasure watching how BB melted that group together. This years Team was agonizing to watch sometime.

As much as I can't stand Felger, he is correct. The CAP is crap and Brady has a window that grows short and we are screwing around bottom feeding and trading down every year to Pop Warner talent. Arrogance can croak you too.....But then we can get great value. Please if the Pats F.O. or Crazy Eye says that one more time I will puke.
DW Toys
 
offer him what Reggie Wayne got and let's get it over with!!

While I think that is a fair point myself, there are many others--some way more knowledgable than myself who think that may be too much.

I think it's going to take about 5 1/2--6 million per yr, but it may not.

We'll have to see if they are even interested, OR if the Condon situtaion holds it up, OR if Llyod signs with someone else first...lots of variables to the Llyod scenario.

I may actually would've rather had Wayne, to be completely honest; but I don't think that the NEP would have been interested in a 3 yr deal. To me, Wayne is the ultimate professional and a very polished route runner. I think he could've improved over Branch with no problem, and that he wouldn't have any of the potential 'issues' or baggage with him.

Llyod is probably the best choice left, and then there's plan B--which is wait for a team's cut + drafting a pick in the first 2-3 rounds should be a priority at this point too.
 
That 07 Team was the most fun and exciting Team that I had ever seen. We were less than two minutes away from the best season ever and a circus catch by a second string yahoo did them in, Yep liked the 07 Team better than this last one. O7 was great O but a much better D.

The build-through-the-Draft Koolaiders, or "Lets see how low keyed FAs can make a difference so we can show the NFL how frugal we are" campers resent the fact that BB proved he could bring in top FAs and make the Team one of the best ever. Why the hate? Who the hell cares.

It was a pleasure watching how BB melted that group together. This years Team was agonizing to watch sometime.

As much as I can't stand Felger, he is correct. The CAP is crap and Brady has a window that grows short and we are screwing around bottom feeding and trading down every year to Pop Warner talent. Arrogance can croak you too.....But then we can get great value. Please if the Pats F.O. or Crazy Eye says that one more time I will puke.
DW Toys

If the Patriots had done what you said in the early 2000's, they would have won zero Super Bowls to begin with. Then you would be still be whining.
 
That 07 Team was the most fun and exciting Team that I had ever seen. We were less than two minutes away from the best season ever and a circus catch by a second string yahoo did them in, Yep liked the 07 Team better than this last one. O7 was great O but a much better D.

The build-through-the-Draft Koolaiders, or "Lets see how low keyed FAs can make a difference so we can show the NFL how frugal we are" campers resent the fact that BB proved he could bring in top FAs and make the Team one of the best ever. Why the hate? Who the hell cares.

It was a pleasure watching how BB melted that group together. This years Team was agonizing to watch sometime.

As much as I can't stand Felger, he is correct. The CAP is crap and Brady has a window that grows short and we are screwing around bottom feeding and trading down every year to Pop Warner talent. Arrogance can croak you too.....But then we can get great value. Please if the Pats F.O. or Crazy Eye says that one more time I will puke.
DW Toys


They just practically rebuilt many positions through-- yep...the draft, practice squad signings or UDFA's, which are the 'Value moves' you're arguing against

Let's look at the positions in the past few years, and the positions that were built through this process in general:

On Offense:

--OL (Vollmer, Cannon, Connelly, Solder) as recent young additions/rebuilds, with Light, Koppen, and Mankins being the others who were drafted. The point is, the whole line has been built and re-built through this process.

--TE (Hernandez, Gronkowski) as recent and young additions in a rebuild

--RB (Ridley, Vereen Woodhead) as recent young additions/rebuilds with Faulk and BJGE already having gone through this process

--QB (Mallett) as a recent young addition, with Brady and Hoyer having gone through this process

--WR (Edelman, Slater) as young additions, and Branch having gone through this process


--------------

On defense:

DL--(Deaderick, Love,Pryor) as young additions/rebuilds with Wilfork having gone through this process

LB--(Mayo, Spikes, Ninkovich, Fletcher, M.Carter) as young additions/rebuilds

CB/S--(McCourty, Dowling, Moore, Chung, M.Williams, maybe even Edelman) as recent young additions/rebuilds

--------------

ST's--(Slater, Gostkowski, Mesko) all added as young, new additions via this process


So, basically, you're theory is so shot out of the window it isn't even remotely funny.

First off, there aren't many holes on this team. Secondly, the entire team has practically been made younger, faster, and better through a rebuilding process that few, if any teams have proven to do. Third, we have 5 of the top 100 picks in this yr's draft. Where do you even see 5 players added? Do you see all 5 making the team as of now? I'm sure they will, when you minus the potential losses from FA we will experience, but when you add those 5 players the entire team becomes quite loaded once again...and most of the picks were via those 3 'value choices' (draft, UFDA, practice squad) that you are arguing against.

That's not even taking into acct the possibility of more FA signings, trades, or cut players.

Where the hell do all of these players fit on a 53 man roster?
 
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to those who watched the superbowl........how can you not want to add some WRs after watching that final drive.

god I want Lloyd on this team
 
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to those who watched the superbowl........how can you not want to add some WRs after watching that final drive.

god I want Lloyd on this team

What makes you think that Belichick does not want to address/upgrade a position of need, Aurakilla?

What I saw on that final drive was our most important weapon hobbled to the point where he was completely ineffective. What I saw on that final drive were 2 dropped passes right in the hands of Hernandez and Branch. What I saw on that final drive was a bullsh!t 10 second run-off penalty by the Giants on purpose, taking the clock down from :19 seconds, all the way to :09 seconds. What I saw on that final drive was a Brady pass that was pretty close to being caught off of Gronkowski's hands. And remember, if it hadn't been for the early safety, there's a good shot that Gostkowski may get an attempt at a winning/tying FG off, since it would have only been a 2 or 3 pt game. (NYG would have not gone for 2 pt conversion at the end)

Yes, I get what you're saying. They need someone to open up the underneath routes and make more plays outside the numbers than Branch did. But there's only so many balls to go around. Welker, Gronkowski, and Hernandez are always going to be our top 3 targets while here and healthy. I think that there are several ways that we can upgrade the position (that was one of the most potent in the NFL in many yrs):

1. There will be plenty of cuts coming down from teams who want to shave off cap space. There will certainly be some quality players in there. There is even a likelihood of someone like Gaffney becoming available, amongst many others.

2. A high pick in the draft. Speedy, young, and a big target. Choose your favorite weapon in this case. They will come cheap, hungry, and ready to learn.

3. An entire offseason, mini's and a full TC from Chad Johnson. We all know that he still has talent, that is undisputed. What he did not have was a firm grasp of the playbook. There is a possibility that Johnson can improve enough to take up 30 catches.

4. (And maybe most importantly) Shane Vereen and the re-emergence of the RB catching some screens and flat passes. He was brought here for a reason, and to think that he too, cannot catch about 25-30 passes throughout the yr is short sighted. Look back to the 2006 and 2007 years when we used this more, particularly under Josh McDaniels.

5. If none of these are deemed as good enough from the HC and front office when the summer rolls around, there is always, always, always the possibility of a trade. We may even see one on or before draft day. Remember that we acquired BOTH Welker and Moss via trade in the 2007 off season.

A little production from Vereen alone + another 10-15 catches from Johnson and we're already talking about another 40-50 more catches.

I want a downfield threat too dude, believe me...we all do. But just remember, there's always multiple options at doing things. It's not always just a one trick fix like many of the fans think. With some different variables in the play calling, and possibly a better defense, we can easily shave off a loss or two and make the same kind of deep run.

Belichick does everything for a reason. He reads all the articles, he knows about the chatter. There's a method to the madness.

As Pats fans, draft day and the FA signings are pretty boring and uneventful for us. The rest of the NFL takes the glory with those days. But come December, we're always right there looking at a playoff berth. You'll get an improvement at WR over Deion Branch next yr, at least in some ways--maybe not in the stats, but in the ability to stretch the field more. You may not get Lloyd, and you may not get the WR in the way that you 'want' to, but you'll see some kind of change and addition.
 
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I am getting Leigh Bodden flashbacks. Not that I think Lloyd will wash out like Bodden did in a new deal, but people on this board is reacting the same way.

When Bodden became a free agent, people freaked the first couple of days when Duante Robinson signed a huge deal (which he totally hasn't lived up to and good example why you shouldn't jump the first day of free agency to overpay top talent) because the Pats were "going to lose" Bodden or have to pay him $8-10 million a year because the Pats misjudged the market and his price has gone up and someone was going to offer him that much. The reality was that there wasn't much of a market for Bodden and the Pats got him for significantly less than what people thought. He ended up getting a four year, $22 million contract ($5.5 million a year). Yes, it turned out to be a bad deal for the Pats in a big way, but if the Pats got the 2009 Bodden the contract would have been a steal.

I see the same thing happening with Lloyd (hopefully without the post contract signing results). People on this board is overrating his market and how much he is going to get. The fact is while teams are chasing after back ups like Laurent Robinson, Eddie Royal, Mario Manningham, and Chaz Schiens; the market for Lloyd is non-existent except for a supposed visit to the 49ers who are having every WR under the sun in. Lloyd has scared away many potential suitors by publicly courting the Patriots. Lloyd may only make sense for the Pats because he has only performed consistently while being a team player for McDaniels.

I think Lloyd will end up signing with the Patriots. I also think he will get a lot less than a lot of people think he will. I think his deal will ultimately be similar or even less than Reggie Wayne got and nowhere near what Pierre Garcon got.

People ARE, not people IS.
 
Bedard is suspicious if lloyd even went to visit the niners.

Bedard and I think a lot alike... That's the same organization and QB that his career got off to a lackjuster start with to the point he got traded to the Gibb's QB'less Redskins before landing with the Bears in transition from Rex to Orton (Romo's new backup).

Condon weilds a lot of influence in some FO's, especially where he reps the QB they are trying to get re-signed without doing something stupid... If Rosenhaus was repping Lloyd he'd have been rumored to several teams but signed here to an inventive laden deal by yesterday before all the FA silly money dries up as the week ends.
 
offer him what Reggie Wayne got and let's get it over with!!

Bill is not going to give Lloyd even aging #1 money to be a 4th receiving option here. I think if Lloyd really wants to be here he's going to have to prove it before he even gets offered a deal, and he's going to have to survive a sit down where the ground rules are made clear as has been the case in the past when receivers with questionable track records have been brought into the mix. The Ocho signing was clearly a miscalculation, but he did keep his mouth shut despite everyone's disappointment. I'm sure Bill has the best possible intel on Lloyd both from players who have shared locker rooms with him and from a guy who was his HC or OC for the last couple of seasons.
 
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