Brady vs. Bill, Perspective of a non-Pats Fan

[yukon cornelius]

Do you think less of Greg Popovich after Tim Duncan retired ?

.

hell, i like him better now

 

[yukon cornelius]

Yep. Pats can take their first big step forward on the path back in 2021. Hopefully.

i think we're looking at that 3 year window, though.....they didn't suck enough to get a QB to build around, imho, not in this draft......

 

[upstater1]

Hi all.

Brady vs. Bill seems to be a controversial topic here. Some insist it is a "thing," while others say it shouldn't even be discussed because nobody is even looking at things that way.

As an out-of-towner non-Pats fan, I can say that it definitely is a thing. I and many others have kept an eye on the developments of both Brady and the Pats this year, as it has always been known that there has been an unspoken "rivalry" between those two gentlemen. People have always wondered who was really responsible for the two-decade string of success the Pats have had. And I think this season we have been given the answer. Each's track record without the other seems to speak for itself. Many insist that Bill is a genius, but it is probably much easier to look like a genius when you have the all time GOAT holding down the most important position in sports for 20 years.

All I can do at this point is acknowledge Brady is the man. 10 Super Bowl appearances and counting. Mind blowing!

One year is not enough time to make an assessment. Case Keenum was an MVP candidate one year.

People act like Belichick started coaching in 2000. He didn't. He was the mastermind behind the Giants SB Defenses. He took Cleveland to the playoffs n his 3rd year but he next year ended in disaster when Art Modell kneecapped him and the team by announcing the move to Baltimore in the middle of the season. The Patriots were 5-11 in 1995 before Belichick showed up. With him we won the division and ended up going to a Super Bowl in '96. He and Parcells instantly turned around the Jets. In New England, he took a team with not much talent to a Super Bowl victory in 2001. That was all Belichick.

Before Brady came into his own in 2003, Belichick was the major force behind 3 Super Bowl victories, and 4 Super Bowls.

Brady deserves as much and even more credit than BB. So give Brady 60% of it if you want, though it's impossible to quantify.
What fans from other teams consistently underrate is how unbelievable the Patriot run was. 8 out of 9 CGs in the last 9 years of BB/Brady. 5 CG victories. 3 SB victories. And that totally ignores the previous decade when they went to 4 SBs, won 3, 5 CGs. Neither Brady nor Belichick achieve this without one another.

 

[luuked]

Brady vs. Bill seems to be a controversial topic here. Some insist it is a "thing," while others say it shouldn't even be discussed because nobody is even looking at things that way.

Yay another lazy and shallow attempt to kickoff the same pointless controversy.

Can we move this **** into the Brady section of the board where it belongs ?

 

[yukon cornelius]

One year is not enough time to make an assessment. Case Keenum was an MVP candidate one year.

People act like Belichick started coaching in 2000. He didn't. He was the mastermind behind the Giants SB Defenses. The Patriots were 5-11 in 1995 before Belichick showed up. With him we won the division and ended up going to a Super Bowl in '96. He and Parcells instantly turned around the Jets. In New England, he took a team with not much talent to a Super Bowl victory in 2001. That was all Belichick.

Before Brady came into his own in 2003, Belichick was the major force behind 3 Super Bowl victories, and 4 Super Bowls.

Brady deserves as much and even more credit than BB. So give Brady 60% of it if you want, though it's impossible to quantify.
What fans from other teams consistently underrate is how unbelievable the Patriot run was. 8 out of 9 CGs in the last 9 years of BB/Brady. 5 CG victories. 3 SB victories. And that totally ignores the previous decade when they went to 4 SBs, won 3, 5 CGs. Neither Brady nor Belichick achieve this without one another.

one could easily make the argument he was more vital to Parcells success as a HC than Parcells was himself.......

 

[yukon cornelius]

one could easily make the argument he was more vital to Parcells success as a HC than Parcells was himself.......

I'm one of those guys who thinks Parcells to be one of the more overrated HCs in the past 30 years......he had a GREAT staff with NYG, and they built an all time roster......he was an excellent judge of talent, but his coaching style did not lend itself to sustained success......he was really the ultimate carpet bagger, good for the quick build, but over time tended to lose players, especially as the game started to mature out of the mid to late 80s style (once players started to sober up and get off the juice haha)

 

[Gatekeeper]

The civil replies are much appreciated. I was worried I'd be crucified!

It's true that it will probably take a few more years to have a more clear answer, but I don't think the issue is all or nothing one way or the other. As if one guy carried the other. I think it's more of an issue of who was more responsible for the 20 year success. And I just think we're seeing a man doing something that will never be replicated in the future of sports. The success and high level of play that Tom continues to exhibit even into his mid 40's is superhuman. Not that he's a super "athlete" obviously, but to be this good and this successful in this sport for this long is not even conceivable. Just a born winner.

 

[SVN]

It's not controversial.

We have an entitled fan base which is mad at Bill for starting a rebuild job because they can't handle going 7-9 when it was this very kind of shrewdness which built the dynasty and benched Bledsoe in the first place

Bill Russell made Red Auerbach . So clearly logic doesnt apply here either

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill Russell made Red Auerbach . So clearly logic doesnt apply here either

Not sure your post fits my point but whatever.

 

[SVN]

Not sure your post fits my point but whatever.

Well I mean sarcastically, its as silly as saying russell was way more important than auerbach going all these debates about bill vs brady,

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well I mean sarcastically, its as silly as saying russell was way more important than auerbach going all these debates about bill vs brady,

Sorry man. Missed that.

Yea. This debate is maddening.

 

[SVN]

One year is not enough time to make an assessment. Case Keenum was an MVP candidate one year.

People act like Belichick started coaching in 2000. He didn't. He was the mastermind behind the Giants SB Defenses. He took Cleveland to the playoffs n his 3rd year but he next year ended in disaster when Art Modell kneecapped him and the team by announcing the move to Baltimore in the middle of the season. The Patriots were 5-11 in 1995 before Belichick showed up. With him we won the division and ended up going to a Super Bowl in '96. He and Parcells instantly turned around the Jets. In New England, he took a team with not much talent to a Super Bowl victory in 2001. That was all Belichick.

Before Brady came into his own in 2003, Belichick was the major force behind 3 Super Bowl victories, and 4 Super Bowls.

Brady deserves as much and even more credit than BB. So give Brady 60% of it if you want, though it's impossible to quantify.
What fans from other teams consistently underrate is how unbelievable the Patriot run was. 8 out of 9 CGs in the last 9 years of BB/Brady. 5 CG victories. 3 SB victories. And that totally ignores the previous decade when they went to 4 SBs, won 3, 5 CGs. Neither Brady nor Belichick achieve this without one another.

BB just needs to sit with Peter King and pour his heart out and appear in a few radio shows and give 1-1 to curran etc. All this narrative will change.
More people now supporting brady than BB because of who he is. Thats why this discussion is even going on. No one cared that dungy didnt win anything without manning. He barely won one with manning. But he is a HOF coach .

 

[Biffins]

belichick is the GOAT of coaching. Brady is the GOAT of the sports.


put those 2 together we have the GOAT of the GOAT.

BB is the goat of having Brady. Unless Brady plays 20 more years and win 7 more Championship with Arians. Then Arians will be the goat of having Brady.

 

[1960Pats]

I love Robert Weathers. He understands.

Get a room.

 

[1960Pats]

One year is not enough time to make an assessment. Case Keenum was an MVP candidate one year.

People act like Belichick started coaching in 2000. He didn't. He was the mastermind behind the Giants SB Defenses. He took Cleveland to the playoffs n his 3rd year but he next year ended in disaster when Art Modell kneecapped him and the team by announcing the move to Baltimore in the middle of the season. The Patriots were 5-11 in 1995 before Belichick showed up. With him we won the division and ended up going to a Super Bowl in '96. He and Parcells instantly turned around the Jets. In New England, he took a team with not much talent to a Super Bowl victory in 2001. That was all Belichick.

Before Brady came into his own in 2003, Belichick was the major force behind 3 Super Bowl victories, and 4 Super Bowls.

Brady deserves as much and even more credit than BB. So give Brady 60% of it if you want, though it's impossible to quantify.
What fans from other teams consistently underrate is how unbelievable the Patriot run was. 8 out of 9 CGs in the last 9 years of BB/Brady. 5 CG victories. 3 SB victories. And that totally ignores the previous decade when they went to 4 SBs, won 3, 5 CGs. Neither Brady nor Belichick achieve this without one another.

Bill has been able to put a good defense on the field for the Pats. Not so much for the offense without Brady.

In 2001 Bill added a lot of FAs but most were on defense. It wasn't until Drew got knocked out that the team took off.

Turning a team around is easy to do coming off of a 1-15 season. That has actually been Tuna Crap's MO his entire career.

Browns fans hate Bill because he let Bernie Kosar go and he hadn't won anything. Letting the GOAT walk may be considered worse.

I don't care what the record would be. I'm a players' guy and wanted to see Brady finish his career here. But I still love them both and would give them each a huge hug. No kisses though. Yuk.