Brady Second Circuit Judges: Parker, Katzmann, Chin

[Jimke]

They could also rule entirely for the NFL and not send it back to Berman.

They could also have Berman redo the entire case starting from scratch. This way the fans might get their due by having the psi readings refuted at last.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They could also have Berman redo the entire case starting from scratch. This way the fans might get their due by having the psi readings refuted at last.

Yea and in that instance Berman can pluck the other two infractions that he mentioned in his decsion but left alone. Some have called these "poison pills"

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

So to the legal experts on here, what are the chances this gets wrapped up quickly, before the draft, so that there's even more pressure for the pick to be returned?

Any whatsoever?

Best case scenario is a favorable decision and a denial of the NFL's motion for an en banc hearing before the draft rolls around. Even then, the NFL could ask the SCOTUS for Certiorari (cert for short; basically a request for permission to have them review a lower court order). Under those circumstances, NFL's chances of being granted cert. are dismal but they won't have a decision on that before the draft and can still claim that the matter hasn't finally resolved (even though they would simply be waiting for the final nail in the coffin).

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Actually, this whole thing has moved impressively fast for a federal case.

I take this as a VERY positive sign.

Judge Berman issued the decision about 2 weeks after oral argument. If the CA2 panel agrees that this whole thing is a stupid waste of time, I don't see why they couldn't issue a decision affirming the lower court decision within 2 weeks.

Now the NFL would have 14 days to request an en banc rehearing which will probably be promptly denied.

SO now we're in April with a favorable ruling and plenty of time before the draft. Just about any credible legal expert will agree that the NFL has longshot odds at cert by the SCOTUS. Maybe we still won't convince Goodell to give the picks back but we will be arguing from a position of strength.

 

[XLIX]

The ruling has a gigantic impact on the picks.

They're not returning the picks.

They're not returning the picks if they win in court.

They're not returning the picks if they lose in court.

They're not going to even get a ruling prior to the draft, let alone exhaust the appeals process.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They're not returning the picks.

They're not returning the picks if they win in court.

They're not returning the picks if they lose in court.

They're not going to even get a ruling prior to the draft, let alone exhaust the appeals process.

 

[Ring 6]

They could also have Berman redo the entire case starting from scratch. This way the fans might get their due by having the psi readings refuted at last.

Berman's case is only the arbitration process, he never had anything to do with the guilt or innocence.

 

[1960Pats]

Looking at the ridiculously poor record that the NYJFL has had in court vs the NFLPA, and their insistence on taking everything to the limit, is it possible that the NYJFL is merely trying to force the NFLPA to spend it's way into financial weakness?

The more I see of how the NYJFL really operates the more I look forward to the day that Tom Brady retires and I can dump this game.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

We should be getting some nice breakdowns of the oral arguments:

 

[Ring 6]

The ruling has a gigantic impact on the picks.

If the NFL's appeal dies, it gives Kraft the opportunity to finally make a move. Right now his hands are tied, considering there's no shot the NFL would return picks while an appeal is in place for Brady's suspension, which in turn is linked with the other flase penalties. Once the ruling is made, there will be nothing tied up and no circumstances of Deflategate left to ponder.

Brady's suspension was totally nullified by a district judge, but now, it's been further confirmed by an appeals court, (even though this entire court process was filed by the NFL themselves, originally), Jastermski and McNally were reinstated by the NFLs own doing and there was zero evidence of any wrong doing found, by any party.

So it basically says, there's nothing further to deliberate on, Deflategate is finally dead, clearly there's nothing to see here as we all knew, your suspension was garbage and the two other guys you dragged through the mud you reinstated and you never actually had them serve any sort of suspension themselves.....so....you took away the picks for what?

This decision has A LOT to do with the potential of draft picks being returned.

I don't agree with you here.
This case isn't about the incident. It isn't about deflating footballs, or even Tom Brady's guilt.
For the purposes of this case he is assumed guilty, and the case is about the discipline, and the appeal process.
If Berman is confirmed, it only means that Brady should not have been suspended for deflating footballs because the notice he was given is held in the published penalties for equipment violations and non-cooperation and the precedent in how the league penalized others.

Brady could have worn a needle on his wrist and deflated the balls himself, and a video could come out tomorrow showing it, and it would have no impact on the appeal.

 

[TomPatriot]

I might actually go to court to watch the argument. I have argued before all three but my argument before Judge Chin was when he was a District Court Judge. Parker didn't say much during my argument before him. Katzmann will fire questions at you if he is interested and he is wicked smart. Chin is slightly less intellectual but is street savvy and can pretty much figure out what's really going on. Chin really rewards you for a clear and concise argument. No way the NFL makes that in this case.

This is a pretty easy case. It will be affirmed unanimously and that has nothing to do with the panel. The NFL is going to file a cert petition with the Supreme Court. That's why Clement was retained as counsel. I suspect they will attempt to get the Court to overrule the law of the shop doctrine, though now that Scalia has passed away, they may rethink that strategy. Of course, even if that happened, there is the remainder of the decision which is almost as difficult to overcome.

 

[PP2]

Yea and in that instance Berman can pluck the other two infractions that he mentioned in his decsion but left alone. Some have called these "poison pills"

It is exactly that. Berman knew the NFL was going to appeal no matter what, so he left a few of those in.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

They're not returning the picks.

They're not returning the picks if they win in court.

They're not returning the picks if they lose in court.

They're not going to even get a ruling prior to the draft, let alone exhaust the appeals process.

You may be wrong about not getting a ruling before the draft. It only took Berman 14 days or so from oral argument to issue a decision. I don't see why a CA2 decision affirming that decision couldn't be done in that amount of time. Not saying it WILL happen but it's certainly not impossible.

NFL would then have 14 days to move for an en banc rehearing which should be promptly denied.

Kraft could then make a little more noise to try to shame/threaten Goodell to return the picks as the Brady court case would be essentially over unless the SCOTUS, in a moment of utter insanity, grants cert on this stinkbomb of a case.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I might actually go to court to watch the argument. I have argued before all three but my argument before Judge Chin was when he was a District Court Judge. Parker didn't say much during my argument before him. Katzmann will fire questions at you if he is interested and he is wicked smart. Chin is slightly less intellectual but is street savvy and can pretty much figure out what's really going on. Chin really rewards you for a clear and concise argument. No way the NFL makes that in this case.

This is a pretty easy case. It will be affirmed unanimously and that has nothing to do with the panel. The NFL is going to file a cert petition with the Supreme Court. That's why Clement was retained as counsel. I suspect they will attempt to get the Court to overrule the law of the shop doctrine, though now that Scalia has passed away, they may rethink that strategy. Of course, even if that happened, there is the remainder of the decision which is almost as difficult to overcome.

Clement better have some serious pull then.
The odds of the 76er's winning this year's NBA finals is higher than the SCOTUS granting cert on a unanimously affirmed lower court decision under normal circumstances.

How would you feel to be the wrongful convicted guy waiting on death row whose appeal was turned down so the SCOTUS could hear the case of the deflated footballs?

 

[Gronkowski123]

We should be getting some nice breakdowns of the oral arguments:

oh, espn/nfl network will have 24-7 coverage. look forward to listening to judy battista and adam schefter.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How would you feel to be the wrongful convicted guy waiting on death row whose appeal was turned down so the SCOTUS could hear the case of the deflated footballs?

The merits of the case are reasonable but its this as a shining example of why it is a complete embarrassment and a total misdirection of priorities and perspective that you have our federal judicial system dealing with this horse **** of a case.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I take this as a VERY positive sign.

Judge Berman issued the decision about 2 weeks after oral argument. If the CA2 panel agrees that this whole thing is a stupid waste of time, I don't see why they couldn't issue a decision affirming the lower court decision within 2 weeks.

Now the NFL would have 14 days to request an en banc rehearing which will probably be promptly denied.

SO now we're in April with a favorable ruling and plenty of time before the draft. Just about any credible legal expert will agree that the NFL has longshot odds at cert by the SCOTUS. Maybe we still won't convince Goodell to give the picks back but we will be arguing from a position of strength.

It takes time to write up a decision. The judges' will go back and forth on the particular language to be used. Also they have previous cases to write up as well.

 

[TomPatriot]

Clement better have some serious pull then.
The odds of the 76er's winning this year's NBA finals is higher than the SCOTUS granting cert on a unanimously affirmed lower court decision under normal circumstances.

How would you feel to be the wrongful convicted guy waiting on death row whose appeal was turned down so the SCOTUS could hear the case of the deflated footballs?

Not really. If there was a split in the Circuit Courts that they wanted to resolve or a prior SC decision they wanted to overrule, they would take the case regardless of the panel vote. I agree that they probably won't take this one, assuming there is a cert petition.

The Supreme Court routinely passes on death penalty habeas applications and cert petitions but takes securities or civil rights or other cases instead. The issue here wouldn't be deflated footballs. It would be how to apply federal labor arbitration procedures. It probably doesn't get four votes to grant cert, but who knows what the docket is like next year, who is on the Court, etc.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The ruling has a gigantic impact on the picks.

If the NFL's appeal dies, it gives Kraft the opportunity to finally make a move. Right now his hands are tied, considering there's no shot the NFL would return picks while an appeal is in place for Brady's suspension, which in turn is linked with the other flase penalties. Once the ruling is made, there will be nothing tied up and no circumstances of Deflategate left to ponder.

Brady's suspension was totally nullified by a district judge, but now, it's been further confirmed by an appeals court, (even though this entire court process was filed by the NFL themselves, originally), Jastermski and McNally were reinstated by the NFLs own doing and there was zero evidence of any wrong doing found, by any party.

So it basically says, there's nothing further to deliberate on, Deflategate is finally dead, clearly there's nothing to see here as we all knew, your suspension was garbage and the two other guys you dragged through the mud you reinstated and you never actually had them serve any sort of suspension themselves.....so....you took away the picks for what?

This decision has A LOT to do with the potential of draft picks being returned.

Sorry, the ruling has no impact on the loss of picks at all. While I don't believe the owners will let Goodell take it to the Supremes I do believe that Goodell will claim the courts got it wrong and there will be no change in the sanctions at all.

 

[Fencer]

Best case scenario is a favorable decision and a denial of the NFL's motion for an en banc hearing before the draft rolls around. Even then, the NFL could ask the SCOTUS for Certiorari (cert for short; basically a request for permission to have them review a lower court order). Under those circumstances, NFL's chances of being granted cert. are dismal but they won't have a decision on that before the draft and can still claim that the matter hasn't finally resolved (even though they would simply be waiting for the final nail in the coffin).

As I said earlier, there's another advantage to the NFL in asking for cert: When it's turned down, it will be minor news. The NFL would prefer that its final defeat in this matter be minor news.