Brady is NOT back, how do we fix the Patriots

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Sep 27th

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Deus Irae

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I generally champi0n the notion of full, or nearly full, legalization of drugs.











But then I see things like this O.P....
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

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1.) Paying Thuney 15M AAV won't look as bad in 2-3 seasons when the team gets better.
Honestly I have never understood this argument, which people seem to use to justify overpaying a player. The idea that the cap hit is front loaded and is more manageable down the road as the cap increases and others begin to make more does not make a lot of sense and would basically justify signing anyone at any price. The market is where it is right now.

I don’t see any way Thuney $15MM is a good move for the team. The internal pay scale has Gilmore at about that number, and the on-field impact between Gilmore and Thuney is not even close. I think there’s no way Bill “would do it again” with the Mankins situation and paying him huge bucks after the cringe-worthy failures of Mankins on the biggest stage. The offense was absolutely horrendous last year, and Thuney played at an all-pro level. That he didn’t even move the needle, IMO, shows just how valuable that position is compared to others.

If we want to talk about a move that sets them up for the future, then taking the high comp pick is the best move, IMO.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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I was told in a thread that he was back, so that’s where I’m choosing to stay.
 

TommyBrady12

Hall of Fame Poster
If Brady is not back, we don't fix the patriots...this year. Bill should blow up the team and start over. Stidham isn't winning us a SB next year anyway. I'd like to see a youth movement.
 

mgteich

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I hate tanking because you never know who the next guy is in that environment. You also never know how far from winning it all the team is.

An above average team can win it all if the cards fall right. Sometimes it's just a matter of being the healthiest team.

Also you'll never know if the guy you tanked for is the next big bust, the next average jag or worth the pick.

Go for it every year because otherwise you'll never know if it could have been your year.
A team that tanks deserves to draft a Ryan Leaf. They will them have gotten rid of several top players, played down, and then drafted a stiff. The kind of mistake CAN take 5 years to recover from.
 

Hyped

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Honestly I have never understood this argument, which people seem to use to justify overpaying a player. The idea that the cap hit is front loaded and is more manageable down the road as the cap increases and others begin to make more does not make a lot of sense and would basically justify signing anyone at any price. The market is where it is right now.

I don’t see any way Thuney $15MM is a good move for the team. The internal pay scale has Gilmore at about that number, and the on-field impact between Gilmore and Thuney is not even close. I think there’s no way Bill “would do it again” with the Mankins situation and paying him huge bucks after the cringe-worthy failures of Mankins on the biggest stage. The offense was absolutely horrendous last year, and Thuney played at an all-pro level. That he didn’t even move the needle, IMO, shows just how valuable that position is compared to others.

If we want to talk about a move that sets them up for the future, then taking the high comp pick is the best move, IMO.
They paid Mason didn't they?

And front loading money when the team is bad helps later when we need to add that one skill player to get over the hump down the road.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
If Brady is not back, we don't fix the patriots...this year. Bill should blow up the team and start over. Stidham isn't winning us a SB next year anyway. I'd like to see a youth movement.
Maybe call it a reload like the Sox are doing and gear up for next year and beyond.
 

Sciz

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If Brady is not back, we don't fix the patriots...this year. Bill should blow up the team and start over. Stidham isn't winning us a SB next year anyway. I'd like to see a youth movement.
But is Belichick going to be around long enough to take advantage of a blowup? I don’t think he’s interested in spending his age 68 and 69 seasons with 10 wins total. If the goal is to get the all time win record (43 to tie, 44 to pass), then even 9 wins per season has him coaching at age 72. If you throw a rough couple of seasons in there, and he could be looking at not getting the record until 74.
 

holyredeemer

In the Starting Line-Up
But is Belichick going to be around long enough to take advantage of a blowup? I don’t think he’s interested in spending his age 68 and 69 seasons with 10 wins total. If the goal is to get the all time win record (43 to tie, 44 to pass), then even 9 wins per season has him coaching at age 72. If you throw a rough couple of seasons in there, and he could be looking at not getting the record until 74.
Where else do you think he has options to go to keep that win total going? I know tone is hard to take on a forum, so I just want to clarify that this is a serious hypothetical question. I’m curious.
 

Sciz

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Where else do you think he has options to go to keep that win total going? I know tone is hard to take on a forum, so I just want to clarify that this is a serious hypothetical question. I’m curious.
I’m thinking in terms of a race against retirement, at least as a coach. Without Brady, the best chance at winning a Super Bowl in the next 5 years probably comes from the strategy of blowing things up, making a ton of draft picks in 2020, and drafting a QB top 5 in 2021, who then is in his second, third, and fourth years (not a rookie, but also still not expensive) in 2022-2024.

But I’m not sure Belichick would be willing to sacrifice two years getting to that point if he thinks he can instead put together five 10-11 win teams that each have a chance of getting hot in the playoffs.
 

PatsfanTN

In the Starting Line-Up
I guess I don’t understand why Stidham is a joke on this board, trash even. We really haven’t even seen him play. If he’s so terrible, why on earth did they waste a 4th round draft pick on him?
 

Ivan

Hall of Fame Poster
If Brady isn’t coming back then thinking about how to beat K.C. Is completely pointless. If Brady leaves they should blow up the older and more expensive parts of the team and look at how to build on their young players and create as much cap space as possible going forward. Cut Sanu, Cannon, and others, let McCourty, Collins, Van Noy etc leave via free agency and trade Gilmore. In other words, if Brady leaves then completely overhaul the team, keeping only the young players they really want to build around.
 

oceansizer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
If,I say if Brady leaves ( IMO it is not gonna happen ) no QB taken either via draft or FA will lead the Pats to SB in next few years. Sorry but only Brady is so familiar with the playbook and I cannot imagine a new QB being a part of Pats' organization who can handle the playbook immediately. Additionally the change of scenery in our offense will be an obstacle as well.
My bottom line is: if TB12 stays and given a legit weapons in offense he is able to get a ring. If he is out we have to think about rebuilding a team.
 

Ladypatsfan

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Brady is not coming back and none of those old players will be back either. Get ready for the youth movement that many yearn for. It might be fun but they would be fortunate to win 10 games.
 

mgteich

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I guess I don’t understand why Stidham is a joke on this board, trash even. We really haven’t even seen him play. If he’s so terrible, why on earth did they waste a 4th round draft pick on him?
I don't understand why you don't think that a 4th is reasonable for a backup QB. Yes, 4th rounders have become franchise QB's, but that is rare. There is no reason to believe that Stidham is starting material merely because he was drafted. As an aside, every Bleichick 4th has made the 53 man squad.
 

mgteich

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If,I say if Brady leaves ( IMO it is not gonna happen ) no QB taken either via draft or FA will lead the Pats to SB in next few years. Sorry but only Brady is so familiar with the playbook and I cannot imagine a new QB being a part of Pats' organization who can handle the playbook immediately. Additionally the change of scenery in our offense will be an obstacle as well.
My bottom line is: if TB12 stays and given a legit weapons in offense he is able to get a ring. If he is out we have to think about rebuilding a team.
I disagree with the idea that the team cannot develop a system for whatever QB we have in a couple of years.
 

oceansizer

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I disagree with the idea that the team cannot develop a system for whatever QB we have in a couple of years.
In a couple of years of course it can but I meant let's say next 2 years. If Brady signs 2 years deal and will be equipped with legit offensive weapons there is a chance we still be a contender. Without Brady the same 2 years are going to be sets of experiments with another QB IMO ( or Stidham who is familiar with the system can do some magic).
 

Sicilian

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
The interesting thing about tanking, or "blowing it up", etc, is that you don't need cap space to find the next franchise QB. If you find that guy, he's going to be cheap for the first 4 years. You've got that amount of time to surround that young QB with the best possible talent you can to A) Give the best possible evaluation of that QB you can by removing negative variables, and B) if he is THE GUY, you can take maximum advantage of having a young, cheap, GOOD QB.

If Tom isn't back, we don't fix the team by making it crappy. You fix it by investing in a supporting cast for whichever young QB you can get that you think could work out.
 

IllegalContact

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Honestly I have never understood this argument, which people seem to use to justify overpaying a player. The idea that the cap hit is front loaded and is more manageable down the road as the cap increases and others begin to make more does not make a lot of sense and would basically justify signing anyone at any price. The market is where it is right now.

I don’t see any way Thuney $15MM is a good move for the team. The internal pay scale has Gilmore at about that number, and the on-field impact between Gilmore and Thuney is not even close. I think there’s no way Bill “would do it again” with the Mankins situation and paying him huge bucks after the cringe-worthy failures of Mankins on the biggest stage. The offense was absolutely horrendous last year, and Thuney played at an all-pro level. That he didn’t even move the needle, IMO, shows just how valuable that position is compared to others.

If we want to talk about a move that sets them up for the future, then taking the high comp pick is the best move, IMO.

I like what the colts did the last couple of years.....if your star QB goes away, invest heavily in the line.......that way, you can have a scrub at QB and not be far from the recipe.....grab a decent QB and you'll be pretty damned good
 
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