Brady contract situation (Merged - UPDATED:Deal Done)

[Deus Irae]

When the history is the very beginning of his coaching career vs the 20 years that followed and includes the mess the owner made of the Cleveland situation, it's pretty relevant. Also relevant is that while he only got Cleveland to the playoffs once, he then proceeded to kick the Parcells coached Patriot's ass. The idea that Bill will suddenly revert to incompetent the second Brady leaves is pretty ridiculous.

First, I never called him incompetent, and I think he's developed himself into one of the very best head coaches in NFL history, right up there at the very top, along with the Lombardis and Browns of the world.

Second, you're noting the history, which is what it is, even as you try to spin it (nothing wrong with that, and I'm just noting what you're doing with your post), and which is my point. The past matters when it comes to analyzing for the future.

Third, Belichick was 0-2 with Bledsoe in Brady's first year as a starter, and then the team went on to go 14-3 the rest of the way (Including the playoffs) under Brady, so the "beginning of his coaching career" stuff and/or "but team building" arguments fail. Brady killed those arguments in his first year on the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

If the Patriots are without Brady in 2020, and Belichick stays, it will look a lot 2001 with a good running game and a very good defense. They'll also have $20 to $30 million in cap space to sign a signal caller. The team without Brady will compete in the AFC East. It's hard to say much more than that.

It's hard to even say that the team will compete in the AFCE. It's too soon to know what the other three teams have at QB.

I'm not trying to bag on the team, or the coach. I'm just referring to the notion that we can just blindly assume that BB will make everything fine, when he hasn't necessarily done that in the past.

 

[shmessy]

When the history is the very beginning of his coaching career vs the 20 years that followed and includes the mess the owner made of the Cleveland situation, it's pretty relevant. Also relevant is that while he only got Cleveland to the playoffs once, he then proceeded to kick the Parcells coached Patriot's ass. The idea that Bill will suddenly revert to incompetent the second Brady leaves is pretty ridiculous.

The arc/momentum of what he was doing in Cleveland is obvious. He was building a longterm powerhouse until his arsonist owner pulled the rug out from under Cleveland.

He entered a mess, had two rebuilding losing seasons then broke through going 11-5 and beating Parcell's Pats in the playoffs. They started the next year 3-1 and then Modell decided to move to beautiful Baltimore.

BTW, just stumbled upon this gem at the end of his first season in Cleveland.

 

[Deus Irae]

The arc/momentum of what he was doing in Cleveland is obvious. He was building a longterm powerhouse until his arsonist owner pulled the rug out from under Cleveland.

He entered a mess, had two rebuilding losing seasons then broke through going 11-5 and beating Parcell's Pats in the playoffs. They started the next year 3-1 and then Modell decided to move to beautiful Baltimore.

BTW, just stumbled upon this gem at the end of his first season in Cleveland.

Even leaving out the last year,

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5

Isn't an arc. It's a possible trend to high-level status, but nothing more. Middling teams with potential develop and then crap out all the time. As Patriots fans, we know that well. We saw that scenario play out with the Jets, under Mangini and Ryan, and two of those teams even got to the AFCCG.

The trend is worth noting when one is defending BB's early years, but it's not any sort of proof that he can lose Brady without that being a problem.

 

[goheels22002]

It's hard to even say that the team will compete in the AFCE. It's too soon to know what the other three teams have at QB.

I'm not trying to bag on the team, or the coach. I'm just referring to the notion that we can just blindly assume that BB will make everything fine, when he hasn't necessarily done that in the past.

I agree with your point about Belichick, but we do know he doesn't make mistakes with the clock, and his in-game misjudgments are few. The team will play sound, hard-nosed football and the players will master the fundamentals. None of that changes.

So many wins every year are because the other teams and coaches made mistakes, or screwed up the clock (Reid? Reid party of 22? Your table is ready....).

I think this team will be competitive as long as Belichick runs the operation. Dominant? Probably not.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with your point about Belichick, but we do know he doesn't make mistakes with the clock, and his in-game misjudgments are few. The team will play sound, hard-nosed football and the players will master the fundamentals. None of that changes.

So many wins every year are because the other teams and coaches made mistakes, or screwed up the clock (Reid? Reid party of 22? Your table is ready....).

I think this team will be competitive as long as Belichick runs the operation. Dominant? Probably not.

I appreciate your post, and I agree with at least most, if not all, of it. I just think that people here have developed the notion that what's happened here under Brady is normal and easily duplicated because of good coaching, when NFL history makes it clear that such is not usually how it works.

 

[shmessy]

Even leaving out the last year,

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5

Isn't an arc. It's a possible trend to high-level status, but nothing more. Middling teams with potential develop and then crap out all the time. As Patriots fans, we know that well. We saw that scenario play out with the Jets, under Mangini and Ryan, and two of those teams even got to the AFCCG.

The trend is worth noting when one is defending BB's early years, but it's not any sort of proof that he can lose Brady without that being a problem.

And the season before he got to Cleveland they were 3-13. I'd gladly take a young HC with that on his resume.

In the meantime, THIS iteration of Patriots is a team that closely resembles the early 2000's teams. Great defensive talent/depth, pound it out running game jag/inexperienced WR's (with one solid TroyBrown/Julian Edelman slot guy), questionable TE talent and a need for a careful game manager QB. 43 year old Tom Brady is PERFECT for this role and I hope they keep him here for 2-3 more years. Likewise, looking around the league, Tom probably realizes this situation is the best one that doesn't dictate having a QB fling it around too much. Self Preservation is a key. The match is perfect from both sides.

.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And the season before he got to Cleveland they were 3-13. I'd gladly take a young HC with that on his resume.

In the meantime, THIS iteration of Patriots is a team that closely resembles the early 2000's teams. Great defensive talent/depth, pound it out running game jag/inexperienced WR's (with one solid TroyBrown/Julian Edelman slot guy), questionable TE talent and a need for a careful game manager QB. 43 year old Tom Brady is PERFECT for this role and I hope they keep him here for 2-3 more years.

.

Deus is a master of saying BB w/o TB12 is an average coach without actually saying it. Been doing it for years.

 

[Clonamery]

LOL, you gotta love local media. Pretty much all I hear is how they doubt Brady is actually leaving then they spend the next 2 hours making every case for him leaving. Then they mock and challenge every caller that states a case that he's not leaving.

Feed the Birds (Sherman/Sherman from Mary Poppins, another musical comedy)

Early each day to the fields of Foxborough
The little sports world men come
In their own special way to the people that call
Come, buy my rags full of crumbs

Come need the little words, show them you care
And you'll be glad if you do
The fanatics are hungry
Our words are so bare
All it takes is Biffins and you

Feed the birds, Volin’s a drag,
Curran, Kyed, Volin’s the drag
Feed the birds that's what he cries
While overhead, stories fill the skies

All around the stadium media and reporters
Look down as they sell their words
Although you can't see it, you know they are smiling
Each time someone shows that they care

Though their words are simple and few
Listen, listen, he's calling to you
Feed the birds, Volin’s a drag
Volin, Volin, Felger and Mazz

Though his words are simple, many
Google, Google, they're stories for you
Feed the birds, Volin’s a drag
Volin, Volin, Felger and Mazz.

 

[Deus Irae]

And the season before he got to Cleveland they were 3-13. I'd gladly take a young HC with that on his resume.

Nobody said they wouldn't, and nobody is denigrating Belichick as a coach. You seem to be arguing something that is completely irrelevant to the discussion that you jumped into, so let's just end this right here.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

 

[Uptown]

Just because it’s “Winsday”

 

[Biffins]

Folks way that Brady is happy with the current deal.

Brady himself said it best, "it is what it is".

The team had no acceptable deal to offer with guaranteed 2020 money. The patriots chose free agency for Brady instead.

Yeah that’s also what I called my crap bonus last year at my job to my wife “it is what it is”. She wasn’t happy either.

Look, the Patriots did this in the context of putting together a roster for 2019 with some very competitive position groups and a couple of holes at receiver, TE and LT. This deal locks in Brady at $23 for this year and sets up 20 and 21 while they sift through the rest of the players.

The Patriots' leverage is that they can decide to walk away, too. If Brady and Don Yee get little or no interest above the $30-32M for 20 and 21 from a team that makes sense for Tom Brady, they'll get the hometown premium in this case at or near the level in this contract.

I think they'll sort out the guaranteed, bonus and incentive money in Brady's promised $62 million for 20 and 21 at some point during the season.

Except Brady was already locked in for this year before this contract.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Belchick hasn't done **** without Brady under center. In his head coaching history, he's only made the playoffs once without Brady, and only missed them once with Brady. He's also had losing seasons in 4 of his 6 seasons without Brady as his main starting QB, and never had a losing season with Brady as his main starting QB.

Maybe things will be different this time, and BB will thrive without Brady, but to say that you "doubt it" is you pretty much believing that history doesn't count.

But...but...but...the 2008 team only lost five more games than the 2007 team. A mere five game difference proves that anyone can just be plugged in with the same success.

 

[farn]

Deus is a master of saying BB w/o TB12 is an average coach without actually saying it. Been doing it for years.

While Deus’ argument does hold quite a bit of logic Brady v BB, I would venture that in early years, BB didn’t have the same liberty he enjoys today. He has had so much success that an owner would be crazy to limit or doubt him. I suspect he didn’t enjoy the same amount of “rope” when he was starting out.

Further : I need to think that with the coaches and personnel he had in Cleveland, that a stable ownership situation would have allowed him to flourish and greatly improve his W-L record.

BB today, with his knowledge and his success would likely allow him to “do it his way” and win in any city of the League. Eventually.

 

[RobertWeathers]

While Deus’ argument does hold quite a bit of logic Brady v BB, I would venture that in early years, BB didn’t have the same liberty he enjoys today. He has had so much success that an owner would be crazy to limit or doubt him. I suspect he didn’t enjoy the same amount of “rope” when he was starting out.

Further : I need to think that with the coaches and personnel he had in Cleveland, that a stable ownership situation would have allowed him to flourish and greatly improve his W-L record.

BB today, with his knowledge and his success would likely allow him to “do it his way” and win in any city of the League. Eventually.

My position is it goes both ways. No question Tom is an elite talent and his exploits have taken the NEP to heights no one else has reached. However there is ample evidence that BB has created the culture, implemented the player and financial system and provided an environment which allowed Tom to not only flourish but reach his absolute potential.

Don't let him fool you. Deus is in the, "BB sucks without Tom camp".

 

[Biffins]

Just because it’s “Winsday”

Apparently not good enough to be extended even 1 year with a guarantee.

 

[VectorPrime]

Apparently not good enough to be extended even 1 year with a guarantee.

It’s infuriating isn’t it.

 

[rochrist]

Apparently not good enough to be extended even 1 year with a guarantee.

Considering not even ONE QB has been the regular starting QB for an NFL team at age 43, it's hard to blame them.

 

[VectorPrime]

Considering not even ONE QB has been the regular starting QB for an NFL team at age 43, it's hard to blame them.

He’s earned the benefit of the doubt.