Boutte available for trade?

[Rob0729]

I seriously doubt this will last beyond the first week of June. Roseman absolutely has to pull the trigger quickly. No one is going to give as much as the Patriots are later than June 1. And if he waits, he may not even have the Patriots to trade with.

Roseman had months to shop around Brown. He knows what the market is. If the Jags are going to jump in, there has already been discussions between the two teams. The Jags aren't going to wait to June 1st to start negotiating because Brown could be a Patriot at 12:01 AM on June 1st. If there are other suitors waiting in the wings, they are jumping in now to pull the trigger on June 1 because there is no guarantee Brown will be available until June 2. There is no league rule that states that teams have to wait until June 1 to start negotiating.

And the Patriots are not going to be jerked around. They are going to try to look elsewhere if Roseman decides to wait longer than June 1 to see if a market appears over the summer.

People have turned Howie Roseman into this god that is always holding all of the cards and can manufacturer amazing deals out of the air. The Eagles have some leverage, the Pats do too. The longer Roseman waits after June 1st, his leverage goes down just like he lost leverage by waiting to post June 1 rather than trading Brown before the draft.

I assume most of this talk is wishcasting to generate a story that has gone boring. If it is a forgone conclusion that Brown is a Patriot for a 2028 draft pick, the story is dead until June 1st and then it is anticlimactic. If they can talk about the Jags or someone else jumping in, then they have click bait. It is also the media's fanboy worship of Roseman that has them thinking that Roseman has to have something up his sleeve to wow everyone with a surprise twist.

 

[rkarp1]

I seriously doubt this will last beyond the first week of June. Roseman absolutely has to pull the trigger quickly. No one is going to give as much as the Patriots are later than June 1. And if he waits, he may not even have the Patriots to trade with.

Roseman had months to shop around Brown. He knows what the market is. If the Jags are going to jump in, there has already been discussions between the two teams. The Jags aren't going to wait to June 1st to start negotiating because Brown could be a Patriot at 12:01 AM on June 1st. If there are other suitors waiting in the wings, they are jumping in now to pull the trigger on June 1 because there is no guarantee Brown will be available until June 2. There is no league rule that states that teams have to wait until June 1 to start negotiating.

And the Patriots are not going to be jerked around. They are going to try to look elsewhere if Roseman decides to wait longer than June 1 to see if a market appears over the summer.

People have turned Howie Roseman into this god that is always holding all of the cards and can manufacturer amazing deals out of the air. The Eagles have some leverage, the Pats do too. The longer Roseman waits after June 1st, his leverage goes down just like he lost leverage by waiting to post June 1 rather than trading Brown before the draft.

I assume most of this talk is wishcasting to generate a story that has gone boring. If it is a forgone conclusion that Brown is a Patriot for a 2028 draft pick, the story is dead until June 1st and then it is anticlimactic. If they can talk about the Jags or someone else jumping in, then they have click bait. It is also the media's fanboy worship of Roseman that has them thinking that Roseman has to have something up his sleeve to wow everyone with a surprise twist.

Rashee Rice going to jail for 30 days
does KC cut bait on him, and jump into the AJB trade?

Diggs Commanders for 1/$10m (seems like)

 

[Rob0729]

Rashee Rice going to jail for 30 days
does KC cut bait on him, and jump into the AJB trade?

Diggs Commanders for 1/$10m (seems like)

The Chiefs are cash strapped. Sportrac has them just under $7 million and Over the Cap has them at $6.1 million. They cannot afford Brown without cuts or restructures. And that is beyond Rice.

AJ Brown would take a $7 million cap hit (but also cost the team $29 million in total cash this year and we do not know if they have depleted their actual spending budget for the year). But the Chiefs need about $5-10 million to go into the season. And cutting Rice would save them about $1-1.6 million against the cap.

Rice will likely be suspended for 4-8 games. If Mahomes is on the PUP, then the Chiefs will likely be willing to endure that.

But I don't know if AJ Brown is a scheme fit for KC. They like smaller, WRs with quick bursts.

My guess is if they move on from Rice (which I tend to doubt), they will wait to see what Tyreek Hill can do or wait for Brandon Aiyuk to be cut. Those guys are far more suited for the Chiefs' offense than Brown.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

You hold camp where 90 players are invited and let competition do the job. But if Boutte is making a stink and doesn’t want to compete then let him go.

Also in a vacuum Alabama will create more pro players in a given draft class. That being said there’s close to 800 college programs out there. The talent comes from all corners of the country and even from some other continents.

Mainly in this case because his contract is ending and the he possibility to get younger, cheaper, better exists.

The price for Brown is unknown. My guess is a 4th and a player, or maybe a third at most. But who knows what the Patriots think.

Diggs will be 33, they might be better with Doubs alone. But add Brown and go with the youth movement elsewhere… we don’t need a geriatric WR corps.

This team is built to win now. Drake on his rookie contract is a cheat code. They can afford to spend and should do what’s necessary to field a SB contender.

Once you pay Drake, it gets much harder…

Compared with what everybody says it will cost us for brown, a 4th is dirt cheap. From your keyboard to God’s monitor.

We’ll know a lot in June.

As for suitors for Diggs, they all know when he was born. It’s not like blazing speed is his super power, route running is. That got him to 1000 yards at 32. If he gets no suitors, might he be game to take reduced money and a reduced role? Nobody’s first choice, but maybe it’s everybody’s “good enough” at the end of the day.
No, it doesn’t fit “younger cheaper faster” but it enables that approach. And yes, it’s unlikely.

Our difference might be you’re loving the stUDFAs. To me they’re unknowns. If you’re at a lesser program, why? Yes, yes, many reasons. Yes, yes, you could be good at an unknown program. It just really less likely.

I realize that this team expecially loves the non powerhouse picks.

 

[rkarp1]

The Chiefs are cash strapped. Sportrac has them just under $7 million and Over the Cap has them at $6.1 million. They cannot afford Brown without cuts or restructures. And that is beyond Rice.

AJ Brown would take a $7 million cap hit (but also cost the team $29 million in total cash this year and we do not know if they have depleted their actual spending budget for the year). But the Chiefs need about $5-10 million to go into the season. And cutting Rice would save them about $1-1.6 million against the cap.

Rice will likely be suspended for 4-8 games. If Mahomes is on the PUP, then the Chiefs will likely be willing to endure that.

But I don't know if AJ Brown is a scheme fit for KC. They like smaller, WRs with quick bursts.

My guess is if they move on from Rice (which I tend to doubt), they will wait to see what Tyreek Hill can do or wait for Brandon Aiyuk to be cut. Those guys are far more suited for the Chiefs' offense than Brown.

the cap is crap
teams can do whatever they want

 

[Rob0729]

the cap is crap
teams can do whatever they want

The cap is not totally crap and it is one thing to manipulate money at the start of free agency and another to do so in June. And they already did a major restructure of Mahomes' contract in February that pushed like $53 million into future years. His cap # in 2027 is $85 million. At some point, restructures come back to bite you. See the Saints who continue to restructure just to field a crappy team because they cannot do anything else major.

 

[Thelonious]

I find myself wondering what the arguments might be for keeping Pop over Boutte, aside from the irrelevant general view that Pop is a "nice guy," as if that is relevant. Pop is a proven mediocrity; Boutte is an apparent mediocrity. I guess we are desperate for something to talk about, eh?

 

[Thelonious]

The cap is not totally crap, ...

Exactly.

 

[TommyD4207]

the cap is crap
teams can do whatever they want

That's why the Chiefs and Bills rosters look like they do, currently.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I can already see the headlines if AJ Brown winds up in NE that the rumor is Boutte “demands” to be traded as if he’s earned the right to do so.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Somewhere in between.

You don't keep every present player. You don't fire them all. You don't only get them from Alabama. But Ala. is way more likely than Lenoir Rhine. We just like the story about the latter because it's an unlikely provenance.

One place where I'll meet you in the middle is that whenever you get a new staff in, the old staff's decisions are systematically discounted; translation, a pre-Vrabel hire s automatically a little sus, a Vrabel-era hire is "developmental."

I understand that the price for Brown, according to the Internet, is a first, plus some other stuff. They better be real sure about Brown. I honestly like adding that piece, but would love to see Philly standing there with their eagle pecker in their hands, you know, the beak... trying to figure out what to do with all that disgruntled receiver. Nobody else wants to pull that trigger.

With Doubs, without Diggs, we're not improved. But what are we with both, while Kyle Williams works into the outside rotation? Asking for a friend.

We want to get better everywhere. The question is, is there a cost ceiling on this "getting better"?

Dudes a loser, and folks here are bending over and spreading their legs for him, even giving those ****ies a 1st to take him off their hands.
They don't want him, anything we give them for the clown is a fkn bonus.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

seriously
Boutte straight up for Brown
who says no?

I do.
Brown is a fkn expensive problem child, saw it in both places he's been.

I don't want that loser anywhere near Foxboro.

 

[Thelonious]

Dudes a loser, and folks here are bending over and spreading their legs for him, even giving those ****ies a 1st to take him off their hands.
They don't want him, anything we give them for the clown is a fkn bonus.

You have a real way with words. "Dudes" needs an apostrophe in this construction: "Dude's," meaning "The dude is..." Other than that, downright Shakespearean.

I think I agree with your point, insofar as I can discern it.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

the cap is crap
teams can do whatever they want

Ok Felger....

 

[upstater1]

Boutte had 33 receptions vs. Diggs' 85. Boutte was used as the X down the field WR. Diggs was used quite a bit in the slot as a short yardage WR. That would explain the disparity in yards.

The thing is that Boutte will be moved to the Z this year with Brown coming in. Odds are if he stays, he won't be the deep threat WR that he was used at last year. Which means his average yards per catch will most likely come down.

But saying Pickens has a similar catch rate isn't relevant because Pickens did it on three times as many catches as Boutte (93 receptions). It is a far more impressive feat for Pickens than Boutte.

I did not compare Pickens to Boutte.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.

I said the only guy in the NFL who has a similar ratio is Pickens.

The fact of the matter is that it is much harder having a huge success rate 20+ yards downfield than on short passes either WR screens or 10 yard dinks from the slot.

This is why normally you'd see a much higher success rate for players like Welker (60%) than Randy Moss (50%)

 

[upstater1]

Up.. while I tend to agree with you. The WR position had been so pathetic the last few seasons that we finally get some production out of the position and it has us as fans wowed. Even with Boutte Diggs and an a solid WR corps last season Vrabel still was looking to upgrade there..

I'm just saying you're not going to see numbers like that with any upgrade. It's rare in the NFL.

And by the way, for everyone saying Boutte disappeared in the playoffs, you guys haven't looked at the actual stats. Against Seattle he did little (only a 21 yd catch) but against the Jags and Texans he was stellar: 9 targets, 7 catches, 136 yards. Now, if we didn't have a crumbling OL against seattle, you might have seen the same thing.

 

[Rob0729]

I did not compare Pickens to Boutte.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.

I said the only guy in the NFL who has a similar ratio is Pickens.

The fact of the matter is that it is much harder having a huge success rate 20+ yards downfield than on short passes either WR screens or 10 yard dinks from the slot.

This is why normally you'd see a much higher success rate for players like Welker (60%) than Randy Moss (50%)

You just compared Pickens to Boutte again.

Boutte caught 33 balls in 14 games last year. That is a little over 2 catches a game average. In the regular season, he had three games with more than 3 receptions and two more with three receptions. That accounts for his high success rate.

Short distance receivers like Welker and Moss have three or four times and targets that many receptions which brings down the success rate.

Maye had a near historicly good completion percentage in the regular season. That accounted for a lot of Boutte's success rate. Both and Diggs and Hollins had similar success rates. If Boutte had his success rate and Diggs and Hollins had significantly worse success rates, then you would have more of a point. And Maye's deep ball accuracy is elite. Probably the best in the league. He can throw it into tight coverage even 20-30 or even 40 yards down the field.

I like Boutte, but he is way overrated by fans here. He is a good receiver. He isn't anything special though. If he was, the Pats would be looking for a first or second round pick, not a fifth or sixth round pick as reported. And they would get it.

 

[rkarp1]

You just compared Pickens to Boutte again.

Boutte caught 33 balls in 14 games last year. That is a little over 2 catches a game average. In the regular season, he had three games with more than 3 receptions and two more with three receptions. That accounts for his high success rate.

Short distance receivers like Welker and Moss have three or four times and targets that many receptions which brings down the success rate.

Maye had a near historicly good completion percentage in the regular season. That accounted for a lot of Boutte's success rate. Both and Diggs and Hollins had similar success rates. If Boutte had his success rate and Diggs and Hollins had significantly worse success rates, then you would have more of a point. And Maye's deep ball accuracy is elite. Probably the best in the league. He can throw it into tight coverage even 20-30 or even 40 yards down the field.

I like Boutte, but he is way overrated by fans here. He is a good receiver. He isn't anything special though. If he was, the Pats would be looking for a first or second round pick, not a fifth or sixth round pick as reported. And they would get it.

look at you trying to **** on 70% catch % and 16+ yards per catch
learn the game
please

 

[Rob0729]

look at you trying to **** on 70% catch % and 16+ yards per catch
learn the game
please

I am not ****ting on anything. The Patriots had three receivers with close to 70% catch rate. Drake Maye completed 72% of his passes in the regular season. I look at the catch rate of all the receivers on this team as a product of Drake Maye.

You learn the game.

Again, if Boutte is as good as you say he is, why are the Pats trading him in the first place, only looking for a 5th or 6th round, and there doesn't seem to be any team even willing to pay give up that much to trade for him for so little? If Boutte was as good as you say he is, half the leagues would be fall over themselves to trade for him for only a fifth rounder.

Again, Boutte is a good receiver, but nothing special.

 

[dliverey44]

Me.. me... Me... Plan B.

Your mom should've went with plan B.

Sorry that was rude but my 5th grade **** talk came back