Bob Kraft on Team Mac - no trade

[One-If-By-Sea]

Let's see, what's difficult about understanding that Mac Jones REGRESSED in brutal fashion in year two compared to his rookie season?

What's difficult to understand about Mac Jones making poor decisions and throwing a much higher rate of interceptions than before?

What's difficult to understand about him being lead footed, lacking pocket awareness, and eating sacks instead of throwing the ball away?

It's PLAIN to SEE for anyone who isn't invested in polishing his ball sacks that Mac Jones was a much WORSE QB than the guy we saw in 2021 and that a certain backup Quarterback displayed much better pocket presence and ability to make plays on the run.

This is also called common sense and otherwise known as taking off the 'homer glasses' to make objective judgments of players based on their performance on the field rather than based on blind optimism.

If life had no nuance, you would fit in so well.

 

[Triumph]

An actual quote from Charlie Weiss. "Whatever you hear thats attributed to a team source from now to draft day is a lie." Teams are doing whatever they can to improve themselves. So, If the story is that Kraft loves Mac Jones, it just might be the organization is trying to increase his value for their own gain.

Cmac went crying to Bob Kraft - among others outside of the Pats organization - during this last season.

It was a little Beech move from a guy who has achieved nothing in NE. I did not like not like it when Brady pulled the same stunt, but Tom Brady had the street cred and could get away circumventing the chain of command by going over Belichicks head to Kraft. If you ask me BB is in the dog house and on the clock. GM duties are on the line if this season does not produce a post season win because I believe Cmac will whine that he does not have the Jamar Chases or the Stephon Diggs like the other QBs do.

Kraft back shopping for groceries and picking the next Terry Glenn for his boy Cmac.

 

[Triumph]

After 2 years, still waiting for “Mac being the reason why Patriot’s won a game”. No evidence so far of pre-draft hype about the Mac being a cerebral QB. Too many interception.

Yeah, but the 2021 season and the Pro Bowl.

Plus, Patricia kept calling that INT play that never works.

 

[Tunescribe]

Let's see, what's difficult about understanding that Mac Jones REGRESSED in brutal fashion in year two compared to his rookie season?

What's difficult to understand about Mac Jones making poor decisions and throwing a much higher rate of interceptions than before?

What's difficult to understand about him being lead footed, lacking pocket awareness, and eating sacks instead of throwing the ball away?

It's PLAIN to SEE for anyone who isn't invested in polishing his ball sacks that Mac Jones was a much WORSE QB than the guy we saw in 2021 and that a certain backup Quarterback displayed much better pocket presence and ability to make plays on the run.

This is also called common sense and otherwise known as taking off the 'homer glasses' to make objective judgments of players based on their performance on the field rather than based on blind optimism.

You know what's brutal? Doubling down on ignorance after all the time and effort people here have spent trying to educate folks like you how things work on a professional football team. Your embarrassing attempt to assess the performance of a second-year quarterback in a vacuum is telltale. This has nothing to do with others "polishing ball sacks" or someone else's "blind optimism," it involves a world where competent coaching (or lack thereof) and the play/coordination of 10 other moving parts around him are critical.

If you won't pause to consider the no-win situation Mac was placed in last year precipitating said regression, there is no hope for you and you will continue misinterpreting what you've concluded is "plain to see."

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, but the 2021 season and the Pro Bowl.

Plus, Patricia kept calling that INT play that never works.

Jones had INT issues early in the season, but he finished the season with fewer INTs than Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen.

 

[RodThePat]

Jones had INT issues early in the season, but he finished the season with fewer INTs than Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen.

Yeah, on 150-200 fewer attempts, though. His INT% was the same as Allen's and higher than Mahomes' and Burrow's. The full list of QBs that threw INTs a a higher rate than Mac last year reads Stafford, Ryan, Carr, Zach Wilson, Mariota, Mills, Wentz, Fields, Prescott.

 

[Sicilian]

Jones had INT issues early in the season, but he finished the season with fewer INTs than Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen.

I see the point you're trying to make, but as @RodThePat pointed out, he wasn't being asked to carry nearly as much of the offensive load as those guys. He definitely improved as the year went on, and the situation he was in coaching wise was terrible. But his lower Int numbers were more about reigning in the offense and getting him back to basics. The hope is that, with a better offensive structure under O'Brien in 2023, that he can keep the Ints low while also being more productive overall.

 

[Triumph]

Jones had INT issues early in the season, but he finished the season with fewer INTs than Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen.

And fewer TDs.

The 2022 NE offense was one of THE worst in the NFL. Cmac (Patricia) added 3 more INTs in game 17 and 2 more INTs were called back vs the Jets. One was a PICK 6 called back from roughing the Bambino. Many more Cmac (Joe Judge) INTs were dropped like the one down by the goal line vs the Ravens. Cmac ( I mean Patricia) stared down the WR and the Ravens DB had another PICK 6 but could not haul it in.

Anyway, lets get back to that 2021 season with the playoffs and pro bowl. Awesome stuff.

 

[Tunescribe]

Cmac went crying to Bob Kraft - among others outside of the Pats organization - during this last season.

It was a little Beech move from a guy who has achieved nothing in NE. I did not like not like it when Brady pulled the same stunt, but Tom Brady had the street cred and could get away circumventing the chain of command by going over Belichicks head to Kraft. If you ask me BB is in the dog house and on the clock. GM duties are on the line if this season does not produce a post season win because I believe Cmac will whine that he does not have the Jamar Chases or the Stephon Diggs like the other QBs do.

Kraft back shopping for groceries and picking the next Terry Glenn for his boy Cmac.

Yeah, but the 2021 season and the Pro Bowl.

Plus, Patricia kept calling that INT play that never works.

And fewer TDs.

The 2022 NE offense was one of THE worst in the NFL. Cmac (Patricia) added 3 more INTs in game 17 and 2 more INTs were called back vs the Jets. One was a PICK 6 called back from roughing the Bambino. Many more Cmac (Joe Judge) INTs were dropped like the one down by the goal line vs the Ravens. Cmac ( I mean Patricia) stared down the WR and the Ravens DB had another PICK 6 but could not haul it in.

Anyway, lets get back to that 2021 season with the playoffs and pro bowl. Awesome stuff.

 

[Sicilian]

And fewer TDs.

The 2022 NE offense was one of THE worst in the NFL. Cmac (Patricia) added 3 more INTs in game 17 and 2 more INTs were called back vs the Jets. One was a PICK 6 called back from roughing the Bambino. Many more Cmac (Joe Judge) INTs were dropped like the one down by the goal line vs the Ravens. Cmac ( I mean Patricia) stared down the WR and the Ravens DB had another PICK 6 but could not haul it in.

Anyway, lets get back to that 2021 season with the playoffs and pro bowl. Awesome stuff.

I wish you'd stop calling him Cmac, because that's Christian McCaffrey's nickname. Just call him Mac or Mac Jones, you know... as if he's a human with a name perhaps?

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, on 150-200 fewer attempts, though. His INT% was the same as Allen's and higher than Mahomes' and Burrow's. The full list of QBs that threw INTs a a higher rate than Mac last year reads Stafford, Ryan, Carr, Zach Wilson, Mariota, Mills, Wentz, Fields, Prescott.

I didn’t take that in effect, but he went eight straight games the second half of the season with only one INT. The turnover problems were a first half of the season where they had Jones throwing a lot of 50-50 passes.

 

[Rob0729]

And fewer TDs.

The 2022 NE offense was one of THE worst in the NFL. Cmac (Patricia) added 3 more INTs in game 17 and 2 more INTs were called back vs the Jets. One was a PICK 6 called back from roughing the Bambino. Many more Cmac (Joe Judge) INTs were dropped like the one down by the goal line vs the Ravens. Cmac ( I mean Patricia) stared down the WR and the Ravens DB had another PICK 6 but could not haul it in.

Anyway, lets get back to that 2021 season with the playoffs and pro bowl. Awesome stuff.

You are making an excellent argument that Patricia and Judge were the problem and not Jones. I knew you would get there. We agree that the Pats went from a top 10 offense Mac’s rookie year to the worst offense his second year. And we can agree that the biggest change on this team was play caller. So we agree that Patricia was calling INT plays with all those 50-50 passes with receivers running routes that put a lot of defenders grouped around Jones’ primary receiver.

 

[Rob0729]

I see the point you're trying to make, but as @RodThePat pointed out, he wasn't being asked to carry nearly as much of the offensive load as those guys. He definitely improved as the year went on, and the situation he was in coaching wise was terrible. But his lower Int numbers were more about reigning in the offense and getting him back to basics. The hope is that, with a better offensive structure under O'Brien in 2023, that he can keep the Ints low while also being more productive overall.

But that really wasn’t the case. Jones in the second half of the season was top five in big time plays. If he was going back to basics, he would have been lining up under center and throwing a lot of short passes. That wasn’t the case. They revised the offense, but they didn’t make the offense any easier for Jones.

 

[sb1]

And fewer TDs.

The 2022 NE offense was one of THE worst in the NFL. Cmac (Patricia) added 3 more INTs in game 17 and 2 more INTs were called back vs the Jets. One was a PICK 6 called back from roughing the Bambino. Many more Cmac (Joe Judge) INTs were dropped like the one down by the goal line vs the Ravens. Cmac ( I mean Patricia) stared down the WR and the Ravens DB had another PICK 6 but could not haul it in.

Anyway, lets get back to that 2021 season with the playoffs and pro bowl. Awesome stuff.

Zappe was clowned by the 32nd ranked defense in football and showed nothing in his 4 game stint that any other backup QB in the league wouldn't have done.

Might as well cheer for Mac to be the guy because if he's not then the Patriots are back to the drawing board to look for the guy. QB purgatory sucks.

 

[Sicilian]

But that really wasn’t the case. Jones in the second half of the season was top five in big time plays. If he was going back to basics, he would have been lining up under center and throwing a lot of short passes. That wasn’t the case. They revised the offense, but they didn’t make the offense any easier for Jones.

I think that stat might be a bit misleading, depending on how they define big plays. He had a number of them yes, but I remember seeing a lot of short screens and underneath stuff, to the point where at one point Mac even blew up on the sideline because it wasn't working. I don't doubt that they got some big chunks (often because they had to because the short stuff wasn't producing and they were in a lot of 3rd and longs), but what they lacked was the intermediate stuff, which is what you need to consistently move the ball.

 

[RodThePat]

I didn’t take that in effect, but he went eight straight games the second half of the season with only one INT. The turnover problems were a first half of the season where they had Jones throwing a lot of 50-50 passes.

Sure, and during the streak in which he was throwing a ton of picks he was at the top of the league in average depth of target. After the injury, he had one of the lowest air yards per attempt in football. At this point in his career Mac hasn't shown the ability to be aggressive and make plays without turning the ball over a ton. It's been an either/or proposition with him, if you ask him to take care of the ball and limit mistakes he can do that at the cost of being unable to climb out of holes and erase deficits, if you ask him to take more risks and be more of a driver of the offense he'll make some plays at the cost of interceptions. That's the next step in his development, to try to marry the playmaking with an acceptable turnover rate.

 

[Triumph]

I wish you'd stop calling him Cmac, because that's Christian McCaffrey's nickname. Just call him Mac or Mac Jones, you know... as if he's a human with a name perhaps?

My apologies for insulting Christian Mcaffrey.

Bmac it is then.

 

[Rob0729]

Sure, and during the streak in which he was throwing a ton of picks he was at the top of the league in average depth of target. After the injury, he had one of the lowest air yards per attempt in football. At this point in his career Mac hasn't shown the ability to be aggressive and make plays without turning the ball over a ton. It's been an either/or proposition with him, if you ask him to take care of the ball and limit mistakes he can do that at the cost of being unable to climb out of holes and erase deficits, if you ask him to take more risks and be more of a driver of the offense he'll make some plays at the cost of interceptions. That's the next step in his development, to try to marry the playmaking with an acceptable turnover rate.

That isn’t remotely true. Evan Lazar tracked it. According to PFF (I know not the best source), Jones was fifth in the league in big time throws since Thanksgiving. PFF defines big time throws as throws with great timing and placement down the field.

 

[Triumph]

You are making an excellent argument that Patricia and Judge were the problem and not Jones.

Nope.

Because year 2 is where a QB proves if he is real or a fraud. 32 NFL teams have had all off season to break down all your film. They know a lot more when it comes time to defend against you. Strengths, tendencies, weaknesses. Eventually some DC cracks the code and the other NFL teams follow suit if they have the personnel.

Brady struggled in year 2 and the Pat's missed the playoffs.

I knew you would get there. We agree that the Pats went from a top 10 offense Mac’s rookie year to the worst offense his second year. And we can agree that the biggest change on this team was play caller. So we agree that Patricia was calling INT plays with all those 50-50 passes with receivers running routes that put a lot of defenders grouped around Jones’ primary receiver.

Patricia and Judge did not tell Bmac to throw stupid passes into coverage. Nobody told Bmac to short arm TDs that other QBs would make.

The blame game is full on just like it was with Bledsoe. His loyal followers blamed everyone else too. Then Brady stepped in and won with the exact same people that weren't good enough for Bledsoe.

Bledsoe left and went on to be like he always was and Bmac will be the same exact way. Nobody will fix him because he is not good enough.

 

[sb1]

Brady struggled in year 2 and the Pat's missed the playoffs.

The league figuring out that the Patriots couldn't stop the run was a much bigger reason why they missed the playoffs. Brady was better in year 2 in a lot of ways than he was in year 1.