BJGE - if he walks, how confident are we in Ridley and Vereen at RB?

[Ring 6]

That depends on what stats you define as being critical. Obviously Morris's YPC is better, but BJGE is far better in ball security and in TD's. Which factor would you rather have?

Come on.
Morris fumbled once.
Morris had 7 TDs with Matt Cassell at QB, BJGE had 11 with Tom Brady.
That difference is opportunity not performance.

25 fewer carries and 60 more yards.

It seems you are just trying to find ways not to answer the question. Its blatantly obvious.

 

[Patspsycho]

Come on.
Morris fumbled once.
Morris had 7 TDs with Matt Cassell at QB, BJGE had 11 with Tom Brady.
That difference is opportunity not performance.

25 fewer carries and 60 more yards.

It seems you are just trying to find ways not to answer the question. Its blatantly obvious.

Ok so you're asking me to compare the one season where BJGE had a turf toe, with Morris's best season with the Patriots ever?

On top of that, in '08, Morris was pretty much the sole starting RB after Maroney went on IR, and in '11, BJGE was in a RBBC with Ridley and Faulk.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok so you're asking me to compare the one season where BJGE had a turf toe, with Morris's best season with the Patriots ever?

On top of that, in '08, Morris was pretty much the sole starting RB after Maroney went on IR, and in '11, BJGE was in a RBBC with Ridley and Faulk.

I am asking you to discuss the point at hand. I said 2011 BJGE had the worst season of the lead back of the Pats since Dillon years.
You said Maroney was worse in 2008, when he played 3 games.
I said Morris was better.

You are now making excuses.
First you said Morris only started 7 games so BJGE is more reliable. When I pointed out that BJGE stated 6 now your argument appears to be that Morris was the only starter but BJGE shared the job.
In fact Faulk had 83 carries in 2008 and Lamont Jordan had 80. Which is just about what Ridley and Woodhead had this year. That is simply a non factor.

Now you are trying to argue his season was better than it was because there was an injury?

The question was very simple, who had a better year.

 

[Ring 6]

I haven't "assigned" these personality traits, I've seen them as has most of the posters on this board who know that he runs hard, isn't scared of contact and always goes for that extra yard. That's being a hard-nosed player to me.

And as for the rest.. maybe his thinking is different than what comes out of his mouth, but what comes out of his mouth hasn't been the least bit derogatory, according to the press, and that's just fine by me.

Once again, I'm not saying he isn't a great guy, but we really don't know, and my point was if we have to rely on that in discussing his play, we are reaching.

 

[Patspsycho]

I am asking you to discuss the point at hand. I said 2011 BJGE had the worst season of the lead back of the Pats since Dillon years.

Ok, let's get back to the question at hand.. Did BJGE in 2011 have the worst season of all the RB's since Dillon?

My question to you is, in terms of what? Certainly not YPC, because Maroney had 3.3 in 08, as the LEAD back until he was put on IR, and Morris had 2.8 in 2010, despite being available all 16 games.

Definitely not the worst in TDs.

In total yards? No, far from it.

In 2010 he was a lead back, but in 2011, he was in a RBBC. So it would be a stretch to call him a lead back for 2011.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok, let's get back to the question at hand.. Did BJGE in 2011 have the worst season of all the RB's since Dillon?

My question to you is, in terms of what? Certainly not YPC, because Maroney had 3.3 in 08, as the LEAD back until he was put on IR, and Morris had 2.8 in 2010, despite being available all 16 games.

Then define it correctly.
We are talking about 2007 Maroney
2008 Morris
2009 Maroney
2010 BJGE
2011 BJGE

We are not talking about what other backs did in other years.
We are not writing a epitath on BJGE, but discussing the play of the primary RB in those 5 years.

Definitely not the worst in TDs.

In total yards? No, far from it.

How is he far from it? He DID have the least yards.

In 2010 he was a lead back, but in 2011, he was in a RBBC. So it would be a stretch to call him a lead back for 2011.

Your RBBC argument is weaker than weak. He was the #1 RB, there is no doubt. He had about twice as many carries as Ridley. Every one of those years we had backups who shared carries.

Again, I really didn't want to argue with you over this, but you are coming up with awful excuses.
It is what it is, he went out on the field and did what he did, I don't know why you insist on not accepting that.

 

[patsinthesnow]

BJGE before turftoe, 27 carries 132 yards 2 TDs vs Jets, that's the game he got it. Id say he was healthy for the playoffs and started to play well.

I just feel the 11 season is moot since he has a career 4.0 and he even got 3.7 as a rookie. (When he had no vision and would just run straight ahead"

BJGE is good to get you 4.1-4.4 ypc.

 

[Ring 6]

BJGE before turftoe, 27 carries 132 yards 2 TDs vs Jets, that's the game he got it. Id say he was healthy for the playoffs and started to play well.

I just feel the 11 season is moot since he has a career 4.0 and he even got 3.7 as a rookie. (When he had no vision and would just run straight ahead"

BJGE is good to get you 4.1-4.4 ypc.

Well you can't reduce his season to one game.
Your argument that 2011 is uncharacteristic is based on one other season. It is equally arguable that 2010 was uncharacteristic, but I'm not making that argument.
The argument is and was about my statement that BJGEs 2011 was the worst season we had from a leading rusher since Dillion, in response to a claim the BJGE is the best RB we have had since Dillon.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Well you can't reduce his season to one game.
Your argument that 2011 is uncharacteristic is based on one other season. It is equally arguable that 2010 was uncharacteristic, but I'm not making that argument.
The argument is and was about my statement that BJGEs 2011 was the worst season we had from a leading rusher since Dillion, in response to a claim the BJGE is the best RB we have had since Dillon.

This is tough, I agree he had the worst season leading rusher since Dillon. However, I do think he is the best main back since Dillon, when referring to 2010 BJGE. He looked less explosive and didn't churn for an extra yards,he was just bad.....

He looked like his old self vs. the Ravens and that game wouldn't of been a hearttack if he got the ball more, he did good with his limited use in the superbowl.

There are really only two seasons to look him at (rookie season thrown out), did he regres due to injury, or is just mediocre and 2010 was an outlier? But to the argument at hand its not really debateable, he was very bad most of this year.

 

[Patspsycho]

Then define it correctly.
We are talking about 2007 Maroney
2008 Morris
2009 Maroney
2010 BJGE
2011 BJGE

We are not talking about what other backs did in other years.
We are not writing a epitath on BJGE, but discussing the play of the primary RB in those 5 years.




How is he far from it? He DID have the least yards.


Your RBBC argument is weaker than weak. He was the #1 RB, there is no doubt. He had about twice as many carries as Ridley. Every one of those years we had backups who shared carries.

Again, I really didn't want to argue with you over this, but you are coming up with awful excuses.
It is what it is, he went out on the field and did what he did, I don't know why you insist on not accepting that.

Once again, if you really want to nominate the RB who had "the worst season as the LEAD back since Dillon" (now, that's a mouthful) then I nominate Laurence Maroney in '08 who had 3.3 YPC before he was forcibly put on IR, after three atrocious games.

If BJGE had a season like that, don't you think he would have been yanked and put on IR instantly? How come the Pats kept playing him with a healthy Ridley, Vereen, and Faulk on the bench?

 

[Ring 6]

Once again, if you really want to nominate the RB who had "the worst season as the LEAD back since Dillon" (now, that's a mouthful) then I nominate Laurence Maroney in '08 who had 3.3 YPC before he was forcibly put on IR, after three atrocious games.

If BJGE had a season like that, don't you think he would have been yanked and put on IR instantly? How come the Pats kept playing him with a healthy Ridley, Vereen, and Faulk on the bench?

Maroney was not the lead back, he played 3 games. Morris lead the team in rushes and yards. When we played football games he was the running back that got the ball most.
Maroney BROKE HIS SHOULDER BONE he wasn't IRd because of his play.

You have a real blind spot here my friend.

 

[Ring 6]

Once again, if you really want to nominate the RB who had "the worst season as the LEAD back since Dillon" (now, that's a mouthful) then I nominate Laurence Maroney in '08 who had 3.3 YPC before he was forcibly put on IR, after three atrocious games.

If BJGE had a season like that, don't you think he would have been yanked and put on IR instantly? How come the Pats kept playing him with a healthy Ridley, Vereen, and Faulk on the bench?

BJGE 2011 1st 3 games 34 carries 122 yards 3.6 ypc
Maroney 2008 1st 3 games 28 93 3.3

I dont see a huge difference there.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If Ridley makes a stop at the Kevin Faulk school of "learn to stop ******* fumbling", and Vereen is healthy--admittedly two pretty big ifs--then I expect the RB stable to be improved this year even if BJGE walks.

 

[Patspsycho]

Maroney was not the lead back, he played 3 games. Morris lead the team in rushes and yards. When we played football games he was the running back that got the ball most.
Maroney BROKE HIS SHOULDER BONE he wasn't IRd because of his play.

You have a real blind spot here my friend.

Doesn't matter if Maroney didn't go on IR as the lead back, he started the season as the lead back. He was the lead back in 2007, and so started the '08 season likewise, until the team obviously saw fit to demote him.

Bones take a month to heal, unlike ligament injuries (such as turf toe) and so don't justify a trip to IR, especially in the beginning of the season. Koppen broke his ankle but didn't go straight to IR until doctors told the team that 6-8 weeks wasn't going to be long enough.

 

[Patspsycho]

BJGE 2011 1st 3 games 34 carries 122 yards 3.6 ypc
Maroney 2008 1st 3 games 28 93 3.3

I dont see a huge difference there.

But you nominated BJGE as having the worst season.

 

[Ring 6]

But you nominated BJGE as having the worst season.

Come on your are much too intelligent to play that game.
Maroney was not the #1 RB on the 2008 team, because he was on IR.
I even listed by year who the #1 RB was.
You on the other hand have avoided the straight forward question by dancing around it in every different way you can think of.
You already discussed a comparision between 08 Morris and 11 BJGE, and when your weak argument was exposed you turned your focus to what Morris did 2 years later and pretending that the #1 RB in 2008 was Maroney from the trainers room.

 

[Ring 6]

Doesn't matter if Maroney didn't go on IR as the lead back, he started the season as the lead back. He was the lead back in 2007, and so started the '08 season likewise, until the team obviously saw fit to demote him.

He wasnt demoted, he was injured.
Regardless we have already been discussing Morris 08 vs BJGE 11, and this appears to be your escape from that comparison.

Bones take a month to heal, unlike ligament injuries (such as turf toe) and so don't justify a trip to IR, especially in the beginning of the season.

What? A RB with a broken shoulder bone is going to come back in a month? Yeah sure. Just curious, if IR was a way of BB saying Maroney you suck we don't want you here, why was he the started in 2009?

Koppen broke his ankle but didn't go straight to IR until doctors told the team that 6-8 weeks wasn't going to be long enough.

Different injury, different position, same weak argument.

 

[Ring 6]

But you nominated BJGE as having the worst season.

No I didn't but you said if BJGE played like that he would have gone on IR.
What that extra 2 carries for 10 yards a game is the difference between stud and dud?

 

[TheComeback]

I'd have a pretty hard time ripping Green-Ellis for scoring 11 touchdowns and playing in a lot of short yardage situations.

 

[Ring 6]

I'd have a pretty hard time ripping Green-Ellis for scoring 11 touchdowns and playing in a lot of short yardage situations.

I don't see anyone doing that here.