Bill's walking a dangerous line with DT, DB depth

[RodThePat]

Ridiculous Fears!!!

You sound like one of the Greenie Doomsters screaming how if the temperature goes up half a degree, the Earth will be uninhabitable. Even though it does ten times that, every day, between sunrise and Noon.

Don't you realize that is EXACTLY what we did the last two years? Love our UDFA, couldn't even make the Jaguars, and he was the "regular" UDFA scrub who started. Deadrick was the lesser scrub, who came into give each of them a blow. It was't for 2 games, it was for 16 plus.

In the secondary, rookie Tavon beat out Chung; Cole played... and he did so a lot. The Patriots still went 12-4 or better. If Tavon is so bad, how poor was Chung? or Moore? Ryan and Duron seem miles ahead of whoever occupied those slots last season.

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what we did the last two years, and it resulted in bad DB play leading to a game-losing drive in the final minutes of the Superbowl, and in Joe Flacco torching us after Talib got hurt in the Baltimore game. As long as this team has Tom Brady, they'll make the playoffs, if Belichick is putting together a roster to merely win the division, he's severely lacking perspective.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Love lost like 80 pounds this offseason. He is not the same player anymore.

Deaderick was a fourth string backup who lost playing time to Francis and Cunningham.

Rookie Tavon was terrible, even more terrible than Chung.

Cole played and he did not play a lot.


You apparently have not watched the Patriots much.

Sorry tony, it is you, who hasn't watched the Pats with a discerning eye.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Right now we have 2 quality DTs.

Right now we have 3 quality CBs, 1 one of which may miss time.

Right now we have 1 quality S, and complete garbage behind him.

Any of those guys go down and we're looking at JAGs starting for us. I for one don't want to have to relive 2011 and seeing the defense give up 40 yard bombs every three plays.

Moves incoming? Or is the roster more or less set?

I have to think that there are moves coming, but the one other possibility, at least at CB and S, is that Belichick is really encouraged by what he sees from Ryan and Harmon. FWIW, Ryan looked really good to me over the past couple of preseason games. I didn't like the pick at all when it was made, but my opinion on him has done a 180 over the past month or so.

Granted, even if this is the case, the depth at CB and S is still bad.

 

[Oswlek]

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what we did the last two years, and it resulted in bad DB play leading to a game-losing drive in the final minutes of the Superbowl, and in Joe Flacco torching us after Talib got hurt in the Baltimore game. As long as this team has Tom Brady, they'll make the playoffs, if Belichick is putting together a roster to merely win the division, he's severely lacking perspective.

It might be helpful to know that the 2001, 2003 and 2007 secondaries all allowed TDs on two of their opponent's final drives, not just one. For 2003 and 2007, it was the last two drives, in 2001 they were sandwiched around a big Willie Mac sack.

The point being that letting up a final drive score is hardly a sign of a bad defense. It is time to put that rhetoric to bed, unless you want to say that those other teams had bad defenses, too.

It is pretty safe to say that fans are the ones who lack perspective, not Belichick.

 

[Deus Irae]

...It is pretty safe to say that fans are the ones who lack perspective, not Belichick.

You can call it whatever you want but, since about 2005, BB has frequently been screwing the pooch in specific areas (LBs for years, WR for years, DBs for years) that the fans have been noting and talking about. Labeling it perspective, or simply failure, isn't really significant.

 

[Oswlek]

You can call it whatever you want but, since about 2005, BB has frequently been screwing the pooch in specific areas (LBs for years, WR for years, DBs for years) that the fans have been noting and talking about. Labeling it perspective, or simply failure, isn't really significant.

Hey, I was one of the first people on any football message board that I frequent to point out how terrible the 2004 draft class was in retrospect. I have been reasonable with my commentary, pointing out plenty of areas that weren't up to snuff. I can defend NE's 2011 draft as being excellent while still lobbying the team to learn from the Ras-I mistake.

If you want to say that NE's drafting was poor from 2004-2009 and downright terrible 2006-2008, I'd be right there with you. But many act as if NE's is still in that slump, which they are clearly out of and have been for years.

The funny thing is, you are taking my comment from one context and stretching it into a totally different one that isn't even the point I was making. :confused2:

 

[Deus Irae]

Case in point.

Hey, I was one of the first people on any football message board that I frequent to point out how terrible the 2004 draft class was in retrospect. I have been reasonable with my commentary, pointing out plenty of areas that weren't up to snuff. I can defend NE's 2011 draft as being excellent while still lobbying the team to learn from the Ras-I mistake.

If you want to say that NE's drafting was poor from 2004-2009 and downright terrible 2006-2008, I'd be right there with you. But many act as if NE's is still in that slump, which they are clearly out of and have been for years.

The funny thing is, you are taking my comment from one context and stretching it into a totally different one that isn't even the point I was making. :confused2:

Ummm..... no

The Patriots hit a huge draft lull in the 2006-2009 seasons. It was a general lull, with many positions affected. Some positions (DB) have continued to have failures since then.

That's where many of the problems have come from. Belittling the person who wrote the article, or the site it was on, doesn't change the underlying premise, which is that BB's poor DB drafting has had a strong negative impact upon the team. Not only should that be understood as a given, however, his FA work in the defensive secondary has also been a huge part of the problem. Defending the Patriots based upon successes in the 2001-2005 era doesn't do anything to change the reality of the failures since then.

The LB replacement struggles began in 2005 (and began mostly with attempting to bring in veteran replacements) and it took until 2012 to get it mostly fixed.
The DB replacement struggles began in 2007 and are ongoing.

The failures in those two areas alone may already have cost the team multiple SB championships. It is what it is. Killing the messenger(s) isn't going to change that.

What happened in this thread is that you responded to one of my posts with a poor rebuttal. Then, instead of just acknowledging that, you've continually doubled down.

For crying out loud, the moment you wrote

I think the backup DTs were awful in the preseason, but Vellano did look passable when subbed into the starting group. And I have to admit that I'm intrigued by Francis...

you should have known that your post wasn't a good one in response to what I'd written, which was

You're welcome to disagree. That won't change what is, though. The backup depth at those spots is either untried or canned retread. Claiming there's definite improvement over last year is just pretending you can project a bunch of rookies before they play a single meaningful game.

 

[Oswlek]

Ummm..... no

{Snip}

You should have known that your post wasn't a good one in response to what I'd written, which was

Honestly, this is so jumbled and convoluted that I can't make heads or tails of it. :confused4:

 

[Deus Irae]

Honestly, this is so jumbled and convoluted that I can't make heads or tails of it. :confused4:

Then let's just call it a dead issue, for this thread, and leave it without further comment. Fair enough?