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Bills release Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by BadMoFo, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. TommyD4207

    TommyD4207 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Really? I can't imagine teams knocking down Benjamin's door to add 2 million to their cap for a fat WR.
     

  2. Dexter

    Dexter Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    That would be the cap had he been claimed but he's a free agent now and can be signed for lower than that.
     
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  3. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    I gave up trying to understand the Dorsett situation.

    Whenever he gets on the field its either a giveaway for a run (setting up that huge play action to Dorsett in Miami/Pittsburgh we all know is coming) or he gets to run either a comeback on the sideline or a short WR screen.

    I don't understand why he is not used on more deep routes to clear some space as he has the speed. Or on inside routes where he can use his elusiveness. It must be his hands or something. Josh obviously knows what he is doing.
     
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  4. UptownPatsFan

    UptownPatsFan Standin' Pat

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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Pro Bowl Player

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    With hands of granite.

    Nope
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Pro Bowl Player

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    And those numbers still stink.

    His prior trending is a job at Footlocker.
     
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Andre Holmes was claimed by Denver because they lost Sanders to an Achilles injury today..
     
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  8. rochrist

    rochrist Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Dorsett BTW has a 73% catch rate.
     
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  9. TBR

    TBR Pro Bowl Player

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    Worth considering on a 2 year deal so that he'd get a full off-season for 2019 (and hopefully loses weight).
     
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  10. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Does anybody have a clue what buffalo is doing?
     
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  11. primetime

    primetime Pro Bowl Player

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    Catch rate isn't an indication of hands, for what it's worth.
     
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  12. Ras-IR Dowling

    Ras-IR Dowling In the Starting Line-Up

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    Maybe these 2 weren’t in their long term plans and they want to give WRs like zay jones more opportunity to build rapport with Allen.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  13. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How is it not? It must have some indication. 0% vs 100%?
     
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  14. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't know. If you assume that bad throws and drops somewhat cancel each other out it is maybe the best approximation to evaluating hands that I can think of. You don't think so ?

    Also I guess you can let PFF and all their cohorts adjust the targets for uncatchable passes (and type of pass) to make it a bit more representative.
     
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  15. primetime

    primetime Pro Bowl Player

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    Because it's just targets/receptions. The official stats don't take into account whether a ball was catchable or how difficult the catch would have been. Downfield receivers tend to have the lowest catch rates simply because deep passes are completed at lower rates as a matter of course - it's highly correlated with average depth of target, and team catch rates tend to be highly correlated with one another as well since they're all from the same quarterback(s).

    The problem with catch rate is it's nearly impossible to parse whether it's a representation of receiver hands or receiver separation or quarterback accuracy or whatever. Benjamin's average depth of target is 17 yards downfield, in the very top percentiles of the league, which has a lot to do with the lower catch rate (Josh Gordon, who I think we can all agree has tremendous hands, has a catch rate around 50% and an average depth of target of 13 yards. We know that's a result of a lot of throws where Brady and Gordon weren't on the same page after being traded midseason, but the official stats don't take that into account.)

    All of this is not to defend Benjamin. His hands are terrible. His drop rate (a better stat) is among the worst in the NFL too and always has been, and the tape of his drops have always been awful.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  16. Taco

    Taco Practice Squad Player

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    If Kelvin is incredibly lucky he could be this years Michael Floyd and Kenny Britt.
     
  17. Tony2046

    Tony2046 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great explanation. Thanks.

    Would it be fair to say a high catch rate is indicative of a good receiver but a low catch rate does not necessarily mean a receiver is bad?
     
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  18. primetime

    primetime Pro Bowl Player

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    High catch rates are usually an indication that a receiver is a running back, tight end, or slot receiver who runs short routes more than anything. The ten highest wide receiver catch rates this year are Michael Thomas, Ryan Switzer, Danny Amendola, DJ Moore, Albert Wilson, Doug Baldwin, Cole Beasley, Jarius Wright, Keenan Allen, and Amari Cooper. Leaving aside Thomas, whose absurd catch rate despite being a downfield receiver is an indication of a remarkable player who's on the same page as a remarkable quarterback, almost all of those are slot receivers with short depths of target. There are some good, very good, great, and mediocre receivers in that group.

    Tyreek Hill's catch rate is more or less the same as Hogan's and Edelman's, but his ADOT is much higher. Antonio Brown's catch rate is 60%. There are probably conclusions you could draw from each of these stats, but I'm not sure you could get the full scale of Antonio Brown's value by looking at that rate.

    That said, Benjamin's was the lowest among qualified receivers with thirty or more targets by like 4 percentage points. His is remarkably low. It's a combination of being a bad, downfield receiver who can't separate or catch with quarterbacks who either have a cannon arm and no touch or no arm to speak of.
     
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  19. robertweathers

    robertweathers PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm wondering if Benjamin might be more effective if he spent more time running short/intermediate routes and not the down-the-field variety routes?
     
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  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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