BGC 2021 IOL/PTP Thread

2020 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: vs 49ers
Pick Results: SF: 35.1% at NE: 64.9%
Sun
Oct 25th

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BaconGrundleCandy

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IOL thread.

Too tired to get into detail but some guys I've had my eye on bc of versatility ... Connor Olson (R/L Guard & Center), Landon Dickerson (RG), Kevin Jarvis (LT), Trey Hill (RG)

M Menet. He's great in pass pro. Quick quick, mover and thinker. Very rarely beat or fooled. ++Balance & anchor. Not a mailer or someone who will bully you in the run game. Positional blocker who'll you'll need to help a bit there. Takes good angles tho.
Some teams will love him (KC, TB, NO, LAR, NE) Others will like him a lot and others might not have him highly at all.

If he really improves in the run game at the poa expect to hear top 50-60 buzz. If not again he could be a top 50 - 100 or 200 guys depending on who you talk with.

W Davis is impressive in a phonebooth. Impressive upper body and grip strength. Has to get quicker. Same with K Jarvis. Noticeable on pulls and in open space. At times steps are efficient and clean when climbing but too inconsistent imo. Has a little burst coming off the ball but again not consistent enough. Angles are good at times too but it's still an area that needs improvement. Too front loaded at times. Recognition on twist could be better.

Mentioned Jarvis. Like him but he needs to work on balance and quicks as well. I watch some of these guys and just see a line in the sand with certain teams regarding athletic ability. If you can't move, pull, climb nowadays and do it wel. It's' tough sledding. Teams want guys that can move. Guys that are athletic, tough & smart. You need to be able to sell fakes, have clean/efficient feet and able to move off the line to disrupt multiple defenders on a stretch.

Trey Smith is pretty intriguing. Has trouble staying balanced when he has to move laterally. Feet look a bit slow. Too front loaded at times. Like Davis he's a mauler close up and straight forward. Very powerful and + grip strength. When both get ahold of you they can shake you. ++ combo, drive. When both play with leverage on power plays its pretty fun to watch.

Really liking Laufenberg, Menet, Brown & Vera-Tucker so far. Laufenberg is super intriguing. Hoping he can put on 10-12 lbs of muscle. He looks like he has some long arms. Could be wrong but learned how to estimate over the years and he's pretty interesting coming from that offense.


How I've graded the position(s) ... Every once and a while I get reminded how hard this is. For w/e reason looking back at IOL lmk how hard this can be :rofl::eek::rofl:.
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Guard


Tier 1

Trey Smith - Tennessee - 6'6/320


Tommy Kraemer - Notre Dame - 6'6/315


Alijah Vera-Tucker - USC - 6'4/310


Jack Anderson - Texas Tech - 6'5/320


Cade Mays - Tennessee - 6'6/315


Wyatt Davis - OSU - 6'4/310


Ben Brown - Ole Miss - 6'5/320


Clark Barrington - BYU - 6'6/305


Ben Cleveland - Georgia - 6'6/335



Deonte Brown - Alabama - 6'4/345


Joshua Fedd-Jackson - NC State - 6'3/325



Tier 1B
Sadarius Hutcherson - South Carolina - 6'4/320

Tristen Hoge - BYU - 6'4/305


Kevin Jarvis - Michigan St - 6'4/305


Connor Olson - Minnesota - 6'5/305


Jaxson Kirkland - Washington - 6'7/325


Josh Rivas - Kansas St - 6'6/325


Aaron Banks - Notre Dame - 6'6/325



Tier 2
Nolan Laufenberg - Air Force - 6'3/295


Luke Fortner - Kentucky - 6'6/305


Navaughn Donaldson - Miami - 6'6/340



Center

Tier 1

Michal Menet - PSU - 6'4/315


James Empey - BYU - 6'4/300


Josh Meyers - OSU - 6'5/310


Creed Humphrey - OK - 6'5/325


Landon Dickerson - Alabama - 6'6/310


Drake Jackson - Kentucky - 6'2/305


Tyler Linderbaum - Iowa - 6'3/285



Matt Allen - Michigan St - 6'3/305


Trey Hill - Georgia - 6'4/330




Tier 2
Jarrett Patterson - Notre Dame - 6'5/300

John Michael Schmitz - Minnesota - 6'4/315

Doug Kramer - Illinois - 6'2/300
 
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BaconGrundleCandy

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BYU OL was dominate the other night. They put on a zone clinic. We're extremely physical from the first snap and didn't stop. Just a beat down. Navy didn't practice tackling leading up to this game as I understand it! It couldn't have been more evident. Navy was getting washed all night.

The whole OL was great but the IOL really stood out. I thought Empey might have been the best player on the field. He's was reaching one guy while keeping an eye on another gap. ID exchanged all night. So physical at the poa, he was moving people and was an excellent mover himself all night. Climbing and clearing the 2nd level. Running almost stride for stride down field just wanting to get involved. He was the first guy to greet whoever scored on almost every TD I believe! He was smiling all night. I thought he really showed off his footwork among other things. His/Their ability to sell misdirection was so pretty. He was very smooth moving laterally. I was so impressed!

How about Barrington!! He was fantastic himself doing work on the 2nd level. BYU had him and Empey emptying bodies and clearing space while the rest of the line just walled off ARMY'S DL. I think the first play of the game Barrington tossed a DB/LB 5 feet and just AI'd him walking over him.

Barrington & Empey we're just tremendous

Hoge had one play down on the GL where he was practically on one knee and still able to get some push for the TD almost dragging in the ball carrier. So physical all night.

 
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BaconGrundleCandy

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Aaron Banks doesn't get his name called a lot but hes been borderline great so far. Was very good in pass pro last year but has been a straight mover in the run game this year. Just a bulldozer on the GL vs Duke/USF. He moved a pile by turning his man almost completely around and was a missile vs USF. The ran directly behind him.

ND asked him to do a lot. Pull, work against quicker guys on the 2nd level, bomb guys in space, combo. He showed he belonged and could play last year but has been just as good, better in some areas this year.

That's significant bc he was dinged up a bit over the summer with a foot injury. One practice I believe? Put on some bad weight. You can tell he's carrying a bit too much around 330. Probably would be a monster at 315-320.

He has serious potential on maybe the best OL in the country. Love his potential.

Plays a bit too high at times. Has to be more accurate with his strikes. Placement could be better. Too often is outside the shoulders instead of under the armpit or inside. Let's rushers get too close too often. Has to learn how to use his length and hands more effectively. Footwork could be better.

Has real potential though. There's not a lot he can't do pretty well. Tough, smart & always working. He's a worker that is always trying to stay busy/looking for work.

I'd love to see him fall under the radar. He has to get in better shape. Maintain, show he can be that guy you can depend on. Improve pad level, hand strikes-accuracy, using/extending arms-striking first, dont let the rush get into your chest. Footwork.

He's been so good so far though.

#69 & C just moved bodies here. This is one of the plays I was talking about.
 
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BaconGrundleCandy

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Tommy Kraemer is a nice player. Good job using/extending his arms, accurate placement when striking at times. Definition of a phonebooth player but can move in a small area. Powerful mover and quick off the ball. He's on you in no time and is a bully. Wants to maul you into the ground. Big time attitude. Powerful effective puller. G/T experience (Remember NEP usually favor T experience first three rounds)

Probably not the best athlete in space but that's something you can work with, cover up. Can get to the 2nd level but doesn't have the movements of a zone linemen. Pulling, climbing is there but laterally he's not your guy.

He's been excellent in pass pro but next level could be a different story when 1 on 1 against elite comp. Don't see the mirror ability to hang with the top tier guys but he's improved every year imo and has made it work so far. Lost some weight this year. He is who he is from an athletic pov. Refrigerator type build but if his footwork improves he could be a top 64 pick. That will be his biggest issue imo or thing that holds him back. Feet have to get quicker to really come full circle. He's a bender at times but again if his footwork improved he could be a real player. That whole line has been great so far.
 

JerseyShore99

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Tommy Kraemer is a nice player. Good job using/extending his arms, accurate placement when striking at times. Definition of a phonebooth player but can move in a small area. Powerful mover and quick off the ball. He's on you in no time and is a bully. Wants to maul you into the ground. Big time attitude. Powerful effective puller. G/T experience (Remember NEP usually favor T experience first three rounds)

Probably not the best athlete in space but that's something you can work with, cover up. Can get to the 2nd level but doesn't have the movements of a zone linemen. Pulling, climbing is there but laterally he's not your guy.

He's been excellent in pass pro but next level could be a different story when 1 on 1 against elite comp. Don't see the mirror ability to hang with the top tier guys but he's improved every year imo and has made it work so far. Lost some weight this year. He is who he is from an athletic pov. Refrigerator type build but if his footwork improves he could be a top 64 pick. That will be his biggest issue imo or thing that holds him back. Feet have to get quicker to really come full circle. He's a bender at times but again if his footwork improved he could be a real player. That whole line has been great so far.
One of my favorite OL prospects for '21...good class it's shaping up to be
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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One of my favorite OL prospects for '21...good class it's shaping up to be
Who else you like? Not as athletic as I'd like but checks a lot of boxes for us.

If we stay healthy. Sign Thuney we're in good shape. We can wait until the 3rd/4th when we have multiple comp picks.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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@BaconGrundleCandy what do you think of Trey Hill and Trey Smith? Like those guys
Love both. Smith is one of the top 10 - 15 players in the draft if he stays on his current trajectory. I wouldn't be surprised to see his name come up in Tackle talk. He's that big, smooth and looks to have enough length. He could be a great G if all his medicals check out. Like 90% of OL'm footwork will separate him or not.
 

patsfanfromoversea

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Love both. Smith is one of the top 10 - 15 players in the draft if he stays on his current trajectory. I wouldn't be surprised to see his name come up in Tackle talk. He's that big, smooth and looks to have enough length. He could be a great G if all his medicals check out. Like 90% of OL'm footwork will separate him or not.
If we had to replace Thuney, who would be right now your favorites to replace him?
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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If we had to replace Thuney, who would be right now your favorites to replace him?
Good question and I took some time to think it over. Wasn't ignoring it. It's a tough one though.

Clark Barrington has been dynamite this year. He's taken his game to another level compared to the player he was last year. He looks like a complete player. Every game this year is so important so I'll hold judgement but he's fun.
Athletic, he's quick, balance & looks pretty efficient to me. They send him to the second level a lot. Coming off a combo like below. I'm seen reach in zone like we saw Thuney do the other day to 3T who outweighed him by 40lbs. He can definitely move some people. Clear a hole or set the line. I need to see more but he's a young player who took a nice jump. Taller than we normally go at G at 6'6. Big boy. Redshirt SO.


I like that whole OL tbh. Hoge is very good as well, the other G.

How about Alijah Vera Tucker from USC. I like his potential. Might not "Wow" you with anything but can be a really good all-around player. Very good feel, presence in pass pro. Always looking for who's coming next. Head is always moving. Hands are pretty good. Pretty consistent. Not a powerful run blocker but more than good enough. Good in space though. Can climb to the next level and carry his man elsewhere. Kinda fits our mold from size pov. Around 6'3/310 give or take.

Remember we like guys with tackle experience when talking rounds one - three so I'm always looking at those guys. But some other names in general from both positions T & G

Syrus Tuitele Fresno St, David Moore Grambling St, Jake Curhan Wash, Dan Moore LSU, Nolan Laufenberg, Sadarius Hutcherson.

Another name and prospect I really like is Josh Meyers. Plays C but he's great prospect. The general of that line. Outside the box.

Thuney is a tough replace. There's replacing the position - pretty easy. Replacing Thuney - very tough after what he brings on/off the field. Durable, Quiet, Smart, Tough, Athletic-enough. I always keep that Dante quote in my head when looking at linemen.
 
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patsfanfromoversea

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Good question and I took some time to think it over. Wasn't ignoring it. It's a tough one though.

Clark Barrington has been dynamite this year. He's taken his game to another level compared to the player he was last year. He looks like a complete player. Every game this year is so important so I'll hold judgement but he's fun.
Athletic, he's quick, balance & looks pretty efficient to me. They send him to the second level a lot. Coming off a combo like below. I'm seen reach in zone like we saw Thuney do the other day to 3T who outweighed him by 40lbs. He can definitely move some people. Clear a hole or set the line. I need to see more but he's a young player who took a nice jump. Taller than we normally go at G at 6'6. Big boy. Redshirt SO.


I like that whole OL tbh. Hoge is very good as well, the other G.

How about Alijah Vera Tucker from USC. I like his potential. Might not "Wow" you with anything but can be a really good all-around player. Very good feel, presence in pass pro. Always looking for who's coming next. Head is always moving. Hands are pretty good. Pretty consistent. Not a powerful run blocker but more than good enough. Good in space though. Can climb to the next level and carry his man elsewhere. Kinda fits our mold from size pov. Around 6'3/310 give or take.

Remember we like guys with tackle experience when talking rounds one - three so I'm always looking at those guys. But some other names in general from both positions T & G

Syrus Tuitele Fresno St, David Moore Grambling St, Jake Curhan Wash, Dan Moore LSU, Nolan Laufenberg, Sadarius Hutcherson.

Another name and prospect I really like is Josh Meyers. Plays C but he's great prospect. The general of that line. Outside the box.

Thuney is a tough replace. There's replacing the position - pretty easy. Replacing Thuney - very tough after what he brings on/off the field. Durable, Quiet, Smart, Tough, Athletic-enough. I always keep that Dante quote in my head when looking at linemen.
I'm not really deep into next years draft class right now, but started looking into some guys I've seen in several draft boards. I use them to get an overview who might declare and who could be an early rounder..

It's a tough one to answer yeah..i personally don't expect an O-Line early pick if we can keep everyone together except from Thuney but wouldn't mind it either..still Onwenu looked pretty good there so we could look at maybe some late round prospects as Backup/ Competition..

Thanks for your Overview..did not know Barrington, but I agree with you he is looking good esp. his second level jump....I would welcome his size to be honest..it seems to me that there are a lot of solid O-Line Prospects maybe more than last years class maybe not so high in the draft but a deeper class..just at C you got Humphrey, Myers, Hill.. I have the feeling that there are a lot of big Mauler coming out like Mays, Smith, Deonte Brown as well with great size and weight..Do you think one of Myers or Humphrey could play at LG? I was thinking maybe Eichenberg could make the transition to LG or move Wynn inside..
 

JerseyShore99

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Who else you like? Not as athletic as I'd like but checks a lot of boxes for us.

If we stay healthy. Sign Thuney we're in good shape. We can wait until the 3rd/4th when we have multiple comp picks.
I can't wait for NE to pay Thuney, so good, has to happen...Andrews a FA too that could get paid...can never have enough OL, but not sure how big a need it'll be for NE this Spring

Kraemer would be an excellent fit for NE, I feel

Alex Leatherwood (Alabama), Cade Mays (Tennessee), Jalen Mayfield (Michigan), and Dillon Radunz (NDSU) are all Day 1/early Day 2 OTs

Trey Smith is probably the top OG, but I also like Dickerson a lot as well from Alabama (and Kraemer)
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I'm not really deep into next years draft class right now, but started looking into some guys I've seen in several draft boards. I use them to get an overview who might declare and who could be an early rounder..

It's a tough one to answer yeah..i personally don't expect an O-Line early pick if we can keep everyone together except from Thuney but wouldn't mind it either..still Onwenu looked pretty good there so we could look at maybe some late round prospects as Backup/ Competition..

Thanks for your Overview..did not know Barrington, but I agree with you he is looking good esp. his second level jump....I would welcome his size to be honest..it seems to me that there are a lot of solid O-Line Prospects maybe more than last years class maybe not so high in the draft but a deeper class..just at C you got Humphrey, Myers, Hill.. I have the feeling that there are a lot of big Mauler coming out like Mays, Smith, Deonte Brown as well with great size and weight..Do you think one of Myers or Humphrey could play at LG? I was thinking maybe Eichenberg could make the transition to LG or move Wynn inside..
I haven't watched Humphrey close enough to say if he can make the jump to G. I'd lean no from what I've seen. Yes for Myers on certain teams. He's just a beast. I've only heard anyone say great things about him. I really like him.

Everything he does is sound. From his stance to finish. Plays with great technique, pad level and attitude. Everything is concentrated, focused and fundamentally on point. He's low, quick & strong. Can handle power. Strong hands/grip. Can move, a little tight but he move. Pick up rushers and beat LB's at the second level. Talker, always talking and making calls on the line. Comes from athletic family. Idk I could see him making a jump to G but not for everyone. I think he could be a great C though.

Definitely have my eye on Davis next to him. Miller is a SO I believe.

Id only consider moving Wynn for a potential big upgrade in every sense. Like a Becton-maybe. Anything to upgrade the OL but make it worth it.

Looking at AVT, Barrington, Trey Smith, Jack Anderson, Ben Cleveland and a few others though
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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I can't wait for NE to pay Thuney, so good, has to happen...Andrews a FA too that could get paid...can never have enough OL, but not sure how big a need it'll be for NE this Spring

Kraemer would be an excellent fit for NE, I feel

Alex Leatherwood (Alabama), Cade Mays (Tennessee), Jalen Mayfield (Michigan), and Dillon Radunz (NDSU) are all Day 1/early Day 2 OTs

Trey Smith is probably the top OG, but I also like Dickerson a lot as well from Alabama (and Kraemer)
Andrews was playing great this year. Pay Thuney!
 

patsfanfromoversea

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I haven't watched Humphrey close enough to say if he can make the jump to G. I'd lean no from what I've seen. Yes for Myers on certain teams. He's just a beast. I've only heard anyone say great things about him. I really like him.

Everything he does is sound. From his stance to finish. Plays with great technique, pad level and attitude. Everything is concentrated, focused and fundamentally on point. He's low, quick & strong. Can handle power. Strong hands/grip. Can move, a little tight but he move. Pick up rushers and beat LB's at the second level. Talker, always talking and making calls on the line. Comes from athletic family. Idk I could see him making a jump to G but not for everyone. I think he could be a great C though.

Definitely have my eye on Davis next to him. Miller is a SO I believe.

Id only consider moving Wynn for a potential big upgrade in every sense. Like a Becton-maybe. Anything to upgrade the OL but make it worth it.

Looking at AVT, Barrington, Trey Smith, Jack Anderson, Ben Cleveland and a few others though
Yeah..obv need to see what our rookies are capable of..maybe even Herron can make a jump and be a solid OT/OG BU..but i like the idea of keeping one of the best O-Line's in the league..a little bit more important for me anyway would be boosting the trenches on the other side of the ball..

Yeah Wynn does a great job there..hopefully he can stay healthy
Becton is a great OT for the jets isn't he..
 

BaconGrundleCandy

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Yeah..obv need to see what our rookies are capable of..maybe even Herron can make a jump and be a solid OT/OG BU..but i like the idea of keeping one of the best O-Line's in the league..a little bit more important for me anyway would be boosting the trenches on the other side of the ball..

Yeah Wynn does a great job there..hopefully he can stay healthy
Becton is a great OT for the jets isn't he..
Becton has looked very good! Rookie seasons don't matter in terms of production or we. You absolutely want to see it but it's a lot more about how the react to the speed of the game. How much bigger everyone is. New scheme/system. What the team wants from you. Really looking to see how the react to everything more than #'s even though that matters.
Becton looked really good in pass pro, a supposed weakness of his. He's been great. Haven't heard much off the field but on it he looks like a leader. Hope the NYJ don't ruin him!
 

patsfanfromoversea

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Becton has looked very good! Rookie seasons don't matter in terms of production or we. You absolutely want to see it but it's a lot more about how the react to the speed of the game. How much bigger everyone is. New scheme/system. What the team wants from you. Really looking to see how the react to everything more than #'s even though that matters.
Becton looked really good in pass pro, a supposed weakness of his. He's been great. Haven't heard much off the field but on it he looks like a leader. Hope the NYJ don't ruin him!
Yes i had him behind Wills and Thomas because i thought he might struggle with speed rushers but he seems to have better foot work and quickness than i expecte. Smart pick
 

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