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Belichick's record without Brady since the Brady era began

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1960Pats

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PatsFans.com Supporter
Glad we could have a thread where the Toompa fans could leave their forum and come over and crap on BB for a bit. Hi 1971, Am and Rain. Glad you could say hi and are all doing well! Probably time for you to go back to your "special place" where you can talk about your team some more, so the rest of us can chat about the Patriots.
How exactly does it help things by calling those fans out?
 

TB12TheGoat

In the Starting Line-Up
Glad we could have a thread where the Toompa fans could leave their forum and come over and crap on BB for a bit. Hi 1971, Am and Rain. Glad you could say hi and are all doing well! Probably time for you to go back to your "special place" where you can talk about your team some more, so the rest of us can chat about the Patriots.
then the people who keep coming in the Tampa thread can stay in the main board. works both ways
 

MAC10

Big Mac Jones fan
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Again. They won 11 games. That is good enough to get into the playoffs almost every year. It was a fluke. All with a QB who last started a game in high school. I guarantee you most coaches wouldn’t have gotten to .500 in that situation.

I get you anti-Belichick agenda. Stop going to ridiculous lengths to disparage him.

They have an agenda and that is obviously "Belichick can't win without Brady!" For whatever reason, these folks have put Brady on a pedestal like he's their god. Whenever he makes a mistake, it someone else's fault. Pick 6? Receiver ran the wrong route since Brady doesn't make errors! @sb1 , who wouldn't post it in the main boards, has come out and said Tampa is going to win the super bowl again...this is despite the fact that NE (his team) is the 1 seed in the AFC.
 
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TB12TheGoat

In the Starting Line-Up
This is a New England Patriot fan board isn't it....we're not going to be bashing Pat fans for being passionate about their team are we?
I’m not bashing them. but they’re constantly complaining when “Tampa fans” post anything positive about Brady on the main board. but free reign to come in the Tampa thread and talk crap? when most who post in there mind their own business? just doesn’t make sense
 

ashley1992

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
I’m not bashing them. but they’re constantly complaining when “Tampa fans” post anything positive about Brady on the main board. but free reign to come in the Tampa thread and talk crap? when most who post in there mind their own business? just doesn’t make sense
I can certainly understand Tampa fans getting annoyed at the trolling...I've never understood the bashing of BB or TB though...both GOATS and both having great seasons.
 

TB12TheGoat

In the Starting Line-Up
I can certainly understand Tampa fans getting annoyed at the trolling...I've never understood the bashing of BB or TB though...both GOATS and both having great seasons.
yes it can be quite annoying that some of the same posters who complained about it still come in there just to troll. I may be more of a Brady person but that doesn’t mean I dislike Bill. don’t understand why it’s mainly one or the other on here lately

yes I agree about them both having great seasons. hopefully they can both make the super bowl.
 

jdlboot14

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The stupid part of this argument that no one considers is that Brady was the starting QB since wk 3 2001 until the end of 2019.
So, just like any team, you have the best player as the starting QB. That guy gets all the support, training, OC-time, practice time... and you fashion your scheme around him, and so on. So, saying BB isn't as good without Brady is like saying any coach would be the same with the backup QB playing. It's a stupid argument!
2008 shows that. Cassel was the backup and did reasonably well, but obviously not as well as Brady could.
2020 doesn't even count. It was a break-glass year. Cam was a stop gap, because for some reason BB was really caught off guard when Brady left. Cam is not a starting caliber QB. Neither was Stid. This is the first year since BB's first year with the Pats that he has another legit starting QB that isn't Brady.
Am I saying Brady isn't also better than almost all other starters? No. He's a generational player.
But, BB could have won about as much with the other "upper echelon" QB's of his generation (ie: Manning, Rivers, Brees, Ben, Rogers) and I'm betting he could have even won consistently with guys like (Pennington, Ryan, Hasselbeck, Palmer, Romo, Eli) Maybe not as much, or for as long, but the people who say it was "all Brady" don't know anything.
 

MAC10

Big Mac Jones fan
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
We were all fine as a fanbase when TB/BB were together. Once TB bolted and the Pats started floundering in 2020, you had some posters literally whining every week about BB letting TB go and saying Bill was nothing without Tom and the 7-9 record was proof. Really, they (the Bradyites) are the ones who started the civil war.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
They have an agenda and that is obviously "Belichick can't win without Brady!" For whatever reason, these folks have put Brady on a pedestal like he's their god. Whenever he makes a mistake, it someone else's fault. Pick 6? Receiver ran the wrong route since Brady doesn't make errors! @sb1 , who wouldn't post it in the main boards, has come out and said Tampa is going to win the super bowl again...this is despite the fact that NE (his team) is the 1 seed in the AFC.
Bucs are the best team in the league with few if any weaknesses. Not exactly the hottest of takes that someone thinks they're going all the way.

this is despite the fact that NE (his team) is the 1 seed in the AFC.
How many rookie QB's have ever won or even played in a Super Bowl?
 
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TheRainMaker

Scored 4 touchdowns in one game
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Glad we could have a thread where the Toompa fans could leave their forum and come over and crap on BB for a bit. Hi 1971, Am and Rain
Before lumping me in this crowd, you may want to do your research and see that I’ve rarely posted in the Tampa thread. In fact, I’ve posted a grand total of 9 times out of 6,000 posts.

Yeah, I sure love that thread.
 
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sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
2008 shows that. Cassel was the backup and did reasonably well, but obviously not as well as Brady could.
To be fair the schedule was very easy and the skill players on offense other than the QB were still great. I think the downgrade in QB that year hurt a lot and so did the defense especially the secondary which quite honestly was kinda bad.

I think BB coaching the 2020 Pats to 7 wins looks a lot more impressive now. The 2020 Pats were not a weak team or a middling team - they were actually bad and only were going to get worse as the season went on... which they did.
 

ashley1992

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Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Bucs are the best team in the league with few if any weaknesses.
I'm wondering how many pro bowlers they have this year...It's almost like a pro bowl team...I don't watch them every week, but saw that game against Buffalo and was surprised at the talent, especially on the Offensive side of the ball....defensively, they have a lot of talent as well...not always the teams with the best talent wins, but their talent is definitely second to none. It's going to be like the old Seahawks though, they aren't going to be able to keep everyone for long....players are going to want to get paid. We could have/should have won that game against them. It was that game and the game against the Cowboys when I realized that we are pretty good ourselves.
 
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sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
I'm wondering how many pro bowlers they have this year...It's almost like a pro bowl team...I don't watch them every week, but saw that game against Buffalo and was surprised at the talent, especially on the Offensive side of the ball....defensively, they have a lot of talent as well...not always the teams with the best talent wins, but their talent is definitely second to none. It's going to be like the old Seahawks though, they aren't going to be able to keep everyone for long....players are going to want to get paid. We could have/should have won that game against them. It was that game and the game against the Cowboys when I realized that we are pretty good ourselves.
Really wish they gave Mac a chance to show what he's got on 4th and 3 instead of kicking a high risk questionable reward FG. If he converted they probably win. If not oh well same result as it was. He was doing more than all right up to that point in a game where he was under the spotlight. To be fair the Bucs secondary was crippled but all the more reason to let Mac try.
 

ashley1992

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Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Really wish they gave Mac a chance to show what he's got on 4th and 3 instead of kicking a high risk questionable reward FG. If he converted they probably win. If not oh well same result as it was. He was doing more than all right up to that point in a game where he was under the spotlight. To be fair the Bucs secondary was crippled but all the more reason to let Mac try.
I got into an argument with my family....I would have went for it...my brothers wanted to kick the fg...can understand either way, but thought with all the success Mac was having and the length of the fg, we should go for it....oh well, maybe we get some revenge in the SB...against either Tampa or Dallas.....both would be fun. lol
 

borg

Pro Bowl Player
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Much chatter this week regarding BB's path to surpass Shula's "wins" record now that NE is cranking out wins again.
And of course, certain local narrative engineers remain entrenched in their take that BB must win a Super Bowl without Brady to justify his greatness to them.

No surprise how the local bloviators completely disregard Shula's failures during the Dolphins' era with Dan Marino, the NFL's greatest passer during that time period.
As a reminder of how devastating a passer Marino was in an era when defenses mauled WRs and QBs.....
1983...Marino 5,084 passing yards....48 TDs......UNHEARD OF

Given Shula's complete control of the Dolphin organization during all those decades, I view any Shula vs Belichick comparisons as "apples to apples" despite one coach operating in the 'no salary cap' era.
So let's look at the Marino era under Shula (1983-1995)
7 playoff appearances in 13 seasons
6-7 playoff record
1 SB appearance (loss to SF in '84) followed by 11 seasons failing to get to the Big Game with the best passer in the NFL
Note: Dolphins won SBs in '72 & '73......followed by 22 years of Shula coming up short despite the gift of an arm he had on his roster for 13 seasons

To me, that's the big picture narrative of Shula....Couldn't get it done despite possessing the best arm of that generation.

My distant memories of that Marino era include:
Dolphins becoming fully reliant on Marino's arm at the expense of the running game and defenses that declined as Shula went all in with the passing game.
And I'm going to repeat: Shula ran the show in Miami...personnel and strategy...just like BB

Let's take a quick peak at those Dolphins defensive rankings during the Shula/Marino era using "Points Against" ranking to measure the quality of Shula's work on one side of the ball.
Note: 28 team NFL thru '94....30 teams in '95
'83.....1st....250 pts
'84......7th.....298..........SB loss
'85......12th....320
'86.....26th....405
'87....16th....335
'88....24th......380
'89....22nd....379
'90....4th......242
'91....24th....349
'92....11th.....281
'93....24th....351
'94....17th.....327
'95.....10th.....332

BB's "Points Against" ranking during Brady era ('01-'19)
'01.....6th....SB win
'02....17th
'03.....1st....SB win
'04....2nd....SB win
'05....17th
'06....2nd
'07....4th SB loss
'08....8th
'09....5th
'10....8th
'11....15th...SB loss
'12....9th
'13....10th
'14....8th...SB win
'15....10th
'16....1st...SB win
'17....5th
'18.....7th...SB win
'19....1st

Rankings be damned!
Superior defense is overrated and Bill is nothing without Brady ....and Shula epitomizes what a great coach truly is and his regular season wins and career longevity trump all else. Trophies are a silly measuring stick.
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Much chatter this week regarding BB's path to surpass Shula's "wins" record now that NE is cranking out wins again.
And of course, certain local narrative engineers remain entrenched in their take that BB must win a Super Bowl without Brady to justify his greatness to them.

No surprise how the local bloviators completely disregard Shula's failures during the Dolphins' era with Dan Marino, the NFL's greatest passer during that time period.
As a reminder of how devastating a passer Marino was in an era when defenses mauled WRs and QBs.....
1983...Marino 5,084 passing yards....48 TDs......UNHEARD OF

Given Shula's complete control of the Dolphin organization during all those decades, I view any Shula vs Belichick comparisons as "apples to apples" despite one coach operating in the 'no salary cap' era.
So let's look at the Marino era under Shula (1983-1995)
7 playoff appearances in 13 seasons
6-7 playoff record
1 SB appearance (loss to SF in '84) followed by 11 seasons failing to get to the Big Game with the best passer in the NFL
Note: Dolphins won SBs in '72 & '73......followed by 22 years of Shula coming up short despite the gift of an arm he had on his roster for 13 seasons

To me, that's the big picture narrative of Shula....Couldn't get it done despite possessing the best arm of that generation.

My distant memories of that Marino era include:
Dolphins becoming fully reliant on Marino's arm at the expense of the running game and defenses that declined as Shula went all in with the passing game.
And I'm going to repeat: Shula ran the show in Miami...personnel and strategy...just like BB

Let's take a quick peak at those Dolphins defensive rankings during the Shula/Marino era using "Points Against" ranking to measure the quality of Shula's work on one side of the ball.
Note: 28 team NFL thru '94....30 teams in '95
'83.....1st....250 pts
'84......7th.....298..........SB loss
'85......12th....320
'86.....26th....405
'87....16th....335
'88....24th......380
'89....22nd....379
'90....4th......242
'91....24th....349
'92....11th.....281
'93....24th....351
'94....17th.....327
'95.....10th.....332

BB's "Points Against" ranking during Brady era ('01-'19)
'01.....6th....SB win
'02....17th
'03.....1st....SB win
'04....2nd....SB win
'05....17th
'06....2nd
'07....4th SB loss
'08....8th
'09....5th
'10....8th
'11....15th...SB loss
'12....9th
'13....10th
'14....8th...SB win
'15....10th
'16....1st...SB win
'17....5th
'18.....7th...SB win
'19....1st

Rankings be damned!
Superior defense is overrated and Bill is nothing without Brady ....and Shula epitomizes what a great coach truly is and his regular season wins and career longevity trump all else. Trophies are a silly measuring stick.
IMO, the wins record is a significant feather in Bill's cap. I really hope he gets it as it does look promising right now with Mac that he can rack up some wins over the next few seasons and catch Shula.
 

moosekill

In the Starting Line-Up
Really wish they gave Mac a chance to show what he's got on 4th and 3 instead of kicking a high risk questionable reward FG. If he converted they probably win. If not oh well same result as it was. He was doing more than all right up to that point in a game where he was under the spotlight. To be fair the Bucs secondary was crippled but all the more reason to let Mac try.
Bill didn’t want to put the game on Mac at that point. If he didn’t convert every media outlet would have blasted, rookie no match for the Goat, Mac chokes etc. instead we sit here arguing as to why Bill did it. This entire year has been about developing Mac while still trying to win. So far it’s pretty tough to argue the results.
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Bill didn’t want to put the game on Mac at that point. If he didn’t convert every media outlet would have blasted, rookie no match for the Goat, Mac chokes etc. instead we sit here arguing as to why Bill did it. This entire year has been about developing Mac while still trying to win. So far it’s pretty tough to argue the results.
Plus, the TB game will not matter if we win out and get the #1 seed.
 

FCB02062

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Much chatter this week regarding BB's path to surpass Shula's "wins" record now that NE is cranking out wins again.
And of course, certain local narrative engineers remain entrenched in their take that BB must win a Super Bowl without Brady to justify his greatness to them.

No surprise how the local bloviators completely disregard Shula's failures during the Dolphins' era with Dan Marino, the NFL's greatest passer during that time period.
As a reminder of how devastating a passer Marino was in an era when defenses mauled WRs and QBs.....
1983...Marino 5,084 passing yards....48 TDs......UNHEARD OF

Given Shula's complete control of the Dolphin organization during all those decades, I view any Shula vs Belichick comparisons as "apples to apples" despite one coach operating in the 'no salary cap' era.
So let's look at the Marino era under Shula (1983-1995)
7 playoff appearances in 13 seasons
6-7 playoff record
1 SB appearance (loss to SF in '84) followed by 11 seasons failing to get to the Big Game with the best passer in the NFL
Note: Dolphins won SBs in '72 & '73......followed by 22 years of Shula coming up short despite the gift of an arm he had on his roster for 13 seasons

To me, that's the big picture narrative of Shula....Couldn't get it done despite possessing the best arm of that generation.

My distant memories of that Marino era include:
Dolphins becoming fully reliant on Marino's arm at the expense of the running game and defenses that declined as Shula went all in with the passing game.
And I'm going to repeat: Shula ran the show in Miami...personnel and strategy...just like BB

Let's take a quick peak at those Dolphins defensive rankings during the Shula/Marino era using "Points Against" ranking to measure the quality of Shula's work on one side of the ball.
Note: 28 team NFL thru '94....30 teams in '95
'83.....1st....250 pts
'84......7th.....298..........SB loss
'85......12th....320
'86.....26th....405
'87....16th....335
'88....24th......380
'89....22nd....379
'90....4th......242
'91....24th....349
'92....11th.....281
'93....24th....351
'94....17th.....327
'95.....10th.....332

BB's "Points Against" ranking during Brady era ('01-'19)
'01.....6th....SB win
'02....17th
'03.....1st....SB win
'04....2nd....SB win
'05....17th
'06....2nd
'07....4th SB loss
'08....8th
'09....5th
'10....8th
'11....15th...SB loss
'12....9th
'13....10th
'14....8th...SB win
'15....10th
'16....1st...SB win
'17....5th
'18.....7th...SB win
'19....1st

Rankings be damned!
Superior defense is overrated and Bill is nothing without Brady ....and Shula epitomizes what a great coach truly is and his regular season wins and career longevity trump all else. Trophies are a silly measuring stick.
The "Belichick wants to catch Shula" narrative is 100% a media creation. He has never said it, and no one on his staff has said it. A well-known/loathed afternoon drive time duo promulgate this non-stop after every Pats victory this season. "We know Bill wants to catch Shula...." do you, tell me how you know you fkctard. It's just like now all of a sudden that same duo, and several of their on air and print doppelgangers, parrot the idea that EVERYTHING Bill says is a slight at Brady....
These same afternoon azzzhats have placed ridiculous expectations on Mac Jones - "I EXPECT Jones to get them to AT LEAST the conference championship....anything else and the season is a failure." -Felger in September
 

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