Cool Link Bedard’s magnum opus

[Ray Ray 717]

Quarterback aside, we are the worst team in the league. Think about that: the worst coaches, the worst roster, the worst front office, and - it just might be - the worst owners.

Yeah, I mean great post. There is the underlining question we all want answered. How can we get out of this mess? 6 years without a playoff win. We stink out there!

 

[50-yard-line]

Brady took a Tampa bay franchise that went 5-11 the year before and won a Super Bowl! Try harder next time, you’re digging yourself deeper.

I'm not digging myself anywhere - I don't have an agenda or a "side" here.

Tampa Bay was a loaded 5-11 team. Look at the roster. Offense with Evans (1000+ every year, 1500 in 2018), Godwin (1333 yards the year before Brady arrivd), Brate, Howard, Donovan Smith at LT, Ali Marpet, Jensen...then add Gronk, Brown and Fournette for good measure.

The had Vita Vea, Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, Devon White and Lavonte David in their front seven

Compare that to the Patriots roster going into 2020.

When I heard Brady was signing there, I scratched my, head, then looked at the roster (and WHY they had gone 5-11...Winston <61% completion rate with that cast and 30 - THIRTY! - picks). And I understood and said, "Super Bowl."

 

[50-yard-line]

And then you play the game again. Almost 5 years later. I have no idea why posters love to repost the same thing over and over for 5 years. Repost the same obvious historical stuff we all know already. But multiple posters keep doing it so there must be some value I don't understand.

I post in response. Myth-making is a stupid exercise.

 

[Ring 6]

What happened to good players.

Change your mind

A team needs good coaching and good players.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not digging myself anywhere - I don't have an agenda or a "side" here.

Tampa Bay was a loaded 5-11 team. Look at the roster. Offense with Evans (1000+ every year, 1500 in 2018), Godwin (1333 yards the year before Brady arrivd), Brate, Howard, Donovan Smith at LT, Ali Marpet, Jensen...then add Gronk, Brown and Fournette for good measure.

The had Vita Vea, Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, Devon White and Lavonte David in their front seven

Compare that to the Patriots roster going into 2020.

When I heard Brady was signing there, I scratched my, head, then looked at the roster (and WHY they had gone 5-11...Winston <61% completion rate with that cast and 30 - THIRTY! - picks). And I understood and said, "Super Bowl."

They weren’t 5-11 I don’t know why people keep saying that. They were 7-9.
They also lost 4 games with a combined 20 turnovers. They were a good team held back by a int machine at qb. With Brady they were 11-5 one game worse that the 2019 Patriots were with Brady.

 

[signbabybrady]

My narrative is pretty clear

- Brady’s play covered up a lot of Belichick’s GM mistakes
- Brady was the primary reason we won those super bowls
- Belichick the coach is great. Belichick the GM no so great.
- Belichick post 2017 made some of the biggest GM blunders and worst draft day decisions which led to our demise

Any other GM find enough talent to win 6 Superbowls with?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Then you should have drafted Alabama Star Calvin Ridley instead of roly poly plodder, Isiah Wynn.

In any case, you had a disgruntled 41 year old QB on the last year of his contract. You had two first round picks. A super stud QB incredulously fell to you at 31. It was time to rebuild for life after Brady. Taking a backup college running back over Lamar is inexcusable and borderline negligence

Many in the media/analysts/fans mocked Ridley to the Pats and posters here wanted Chubb. Michel and Wynn were WTF? picks.

My narrative is pretty clear

- Brady’s play covered up a lot of Belichick’s GM mistakes
- Brady was the primary reason we won those super bowls
- Belichick the coach is great. Belichick the GM no so great.
- Belichick post 2017 made some of the biggest GM blunders and worst draft day decisions which led to our demise

Bill struggled badly after the 2012 draft when Floyd Reese left and had to rely on available trades like Talib and Revis to fill holes at DB for starters. The team was carried by the 2010-2012 drafts and the late returns on Edelman/Chung for 2009, but Gronk was the most important draft pick of them all being the catalyst of the offense. Hernandez would’ve been right there with him, but he went down another path. Had Bill not taken Gronk, they don’t win anything as I believe as the lack of firepower on offense would’ve shown up during the playoffs. Their relationship would’ve ended a lot sooner than it did.

 

[signbabybrady]

Bill struggled badly after the 2012 draft when Floyd Reese left and had to rely on available trades like Talib and Revis to fill holes at DB for starters.

To me this a bit of a chicken or egg debate. Did he trade for the vets because his drafts sucked or did his drafts struggle because used several high end pics in trade instead.

Talib and revis were early in this process so I'd say they probably fall more into the latter. Where Sanu or some of the later moves might be the former.

 

[Triumph]

A team needs good coaching and good players.

Cant coach good players not on the team.

 

[The Gr8est]

... and that is quite a fall from the days where we were the envy of the league - so much so that everyone hated us. Now we are basement dwellers keeping company with the Jete... quite a plummet...

On the bright side since we no longer need to be brought back to the pack, they stopped stealing our draft picks.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Kraft, I remind you, wanted to fire Belichick after that season, and in particular it was about expending resources on a non-starting position.

Calvin Ridley? Would not call that guy a success, given what we've seen from him over the years.

Lastly, that backup RB did this...

71 runs, 336 yards, 4.73 avg., 6 TDs in 3 playoff games against the Chargers, Chiefs, and Rams which contributed to a Super Bowl victory.

Worth it for that alone!

I agree with this. In retrospect Nich Chubb would have been a better pick but Michel was critical to their Lombardi run, and picking in retrospect is always better.

 

[TheRainMaker]

To me this a bit of a chicken or egg debate. Did he trade for the vets because his drafts sucked or did his drafts struggle because used several high end pics in trade instead.

Talib and revis were early in this process so I'd say they probably fall more into the latter. Where Sanu or some of the later moves might be the former.

He acquired Talib because Wheatley (2nd round pick), Wilhite (4th round pick) and Butler (2nd round pick) didn't play well. McCourty (1st round pick) was getting toasted at an alarming rate at CB and Ras IR Dowling (1st pick of the 2nd round in 2011) barely played. The secondary was a massive liability and Bill moved McCourty to FS after Chung got injured and Talib was available via trade.

I thought Revis was a trade, but I forgot he was signed as FA.

 

[Ring 6]

Cant coach good players not on the team.

Huh? You can coach whoever you have. Good or bad coaching is not dependent upon the quality of the roster. Wins and losses are, but we aren’t talking about results in the scoreboard we are talking about coaching.

 

[Ring 6]

To me this a bit of a chicken or egg debate. Did he trade for the vets because his drafts sucked or did his drafts struggle because used several high end pics in trade instead.

Talib and revis were early in this process so I'd say they probably fall more into the latter. Where Sanu or some of the later moves might be the former.

Draft picks are less likely to hit in a good team because they have good players in front of them.

 

[signbabybrady]

He acquired Talib because Wheatley (2nd round pick), Wilhite (4th round pick) and Butler (2nd round pick) didn't play well. McCourty (1st round pick) was getting toasted at an alarming rate at CB and Ras IR Dowling (1st pick of the 2nd round in 2011) barely played. The secondary was a massive liability and Bill moved McCourty to FS after Chung got injured and Talib was available via trade.

I thought Revis was a trade, but I forgot he was signed as FA.

I guess I was thinking more of 16 & 17 when we were missing some first and second Rd picks. You brought up guys selected between 08-10 and some really good players were drafted those years but if course there are still going to be some misses.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

He acquired Talib because Wheatley (2nd round pick), Wilhite (4th round pick) and Butler (2nd round pick) didn't play well. McCourty (1st round pick) was getting toasted at an alarming rate at CB and Ras IR Dowling (1st pick of the 2nd round in 2011) barely played. The secondary was a massive liability and Bill moved McCourty to FS after Chung got injured and Talib was available via trade.

I thought Revis was a trade, but I forgot he was signed as FA.

There are always going to be draft misses. The point for any NFL management team is to be honest, admit the mistake, and correct the misses the best way possible. As you note, that is what the team did.

Something changed later when the misses happened, the team did not correct for the misses in the 2020s. The 2024 draft, with the exception of Maye, might be a complete miss. Do you think they will try to correct for that in FA?

 

[TheRainMaker]

I guess I was thinking more of 16 & 17 when we were missing some first and second Rd picks. You brought up guys selected between 08-10 and some really good players were drafted those years but if course there are still going to be some misses.

I brought them up because it led to the events of trading for Talib and Revis. 2016 first round pick was forfeited (which we all know was ridiculous) and 2017's 1st round pick was traded for Cooks (solid move). While they flipped him for a 1st round pick in 2018 (solid move), not many thought they were going to use the pick on a short armed OL (bad move). We are lucky the blocking from the OL/TE's/FB was the best of the dynasties to squeeze out what they could from Michel in 2018.

For 2nd round picks, Cyrus Jones was a weird pick because they already had Butler and Ryan on the outside with Jon Jones on the inside. However, I think he was taken to be a Devin Hester type player as he was pretty electric in college returning punts and kicks. 2017 they traded out of the 2nd round pick.

Something changed later when the misses happened, the team did not correct for the misses in the 2020s. The 2024 draft, with the exception of Maye, might be a complete miss. Do you think they will try to correct for that in FA?

That depends on how much money Bob wants to spend. If he does, then expect Higgens to be offered money like Aiyuk and they may overpay for OL.

 

[Koma]

Any other GM find enough talent to win 6 Superbowls with?

The GMs who drafted Ridley, Chubb, and L. Jackson should have combined for a few Super Bowls between them, right?

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm not digging myself anywhere - I don't have an agenda or a "side" here.

Tampa Bay was a loaded 5-11 team. Look at the roster. Offense with Evans (1000+ every year, 1500 in 2018), Godwin (1333 yards the year before Brady arrivd), Brate, Howard, Donovan Smith at LT, Ali Marpet, Jensen...then add Gronk, Brown and Fournette for good measure.

The had Vita Vea, Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, Devon White and Lavonte David in their front seven

Compare that to the Patriots roster going into 2020.

When I heard Brady was signing there, I scratched my, head, then looked at the roster (and WHY they had gone 5-11...Winston <61% completion rate with that cast and 30 - THIRTY! - picks). And I understood and said, "Super Bowl."

Agree. That was a really smart decision by Brady, and my first reaction was WTF as well.

 

[Ray Ray 717]

I agree with this. In retrospect Nich Chubb would have been a better pick but Michel was critical to their Lombardi run, and picking in retrospect is always better.

Whose to say Chubb wouldn’t have run through those gigantic holes created by the o line in the 2018 playoffs?