BB: Our passing game isn't as efficient as it needs to be

[scott99]

Coach Belichick talking about the Patriot’s receivers.

 

[archstanton543]

Coach Belichick talking about the Patriot’s receivers.

He should sit down with the GM and put him on notice because he's really been screwing him at that position the last 5 years.

 

[Triumph]

Its the QB

Brady had 12 wins last year with a worse cast of players.

James White has 0 TDs to date. One of the best WR options the Pats have has been skunked by somebody. Cam has 10 rushing TDs though because he wants to be the star of the show. Rushing is always in the back of his head whereas Brady wants to pass and running is a last ditch option.

If BB brings Cam back for round 2 he is truly gone crazy.

 

[PScottman]

You need to throw contested balls to Harry.

On a team where turnover prevention is job one "contested balls" are not a "thing" in the Pats offense until it's desperation time. That is one area I will indeed offer critique of the Harry drafting - if you draft a big, physical receiver, but are anathema to the risks inherent in utilizing that skillset in your offense...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Toofy]

On a team where turnover prevention is job one "contested balls" are not a "thing" in the Pats offense until it's desperation time. That is one area I will indeed offer critique of the Harry drafting - if you draft a big, physical receiver, but are anathema to the risks inherent in utilizing that skillset in your offense...that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Agreed. But thats his skill set.if we don't align to that then we have a problem with our evaluation.

 

[50-yard-line]

Based on what? Tell me a wideout we drafted that went on to do better things elsewhere after he struggled here.

Based on the first two games and the last two games. Based on Seattle - clutch in Q4, including a beauty at the goal line. Based on a high-point touchdown that shows me a corner is going to have a miserable time with him in the red zone. Based on the last couple of weeks, the adjustment to the long ball and the strong hands.

When they throw it to him and it's not in the dirt, he catches it. Cam laid him out to get killed over the middle, he caught it, he held it, and then he missed some time with a concussion.

I don't know how anyone here could have watched Brady at the end of last year or Cam this year, and still be thinking it's all on the receivers. Brady very clearly wanted nothing to do with anyone who didn't know the system cold (how was any rookie who missed most of camp be anywhere near that?) and Newton, and the offense McDaniels wants to run, has little to do with WRs.

I don't think Harry was a good pick in Round 1, particularly for this offensive philosophy, and he wasn't my first choice, but he's not without the tools to be a good, very good, NFL receiver.

You ask what other picks have gone on elsewhere...they picked
0 WRs in 2020
1 in 2019 (Harry in Round 1)
1 in 2018 (Berrios in 6th Round)
0 in 2017
2 in 2016 (Mitchell in Round 4, who helped win a SB before his injuries ended his career, and Lucien in Round 7)
0 in 2015
1 in 2014 (Gallon in Round 7)
2 in 2013 (Dobson in Round 2 (519 yards as a rookie, before getting riddled with injuries and Boyce in Round 4 - I don't even know what happened there, to be honest. Loved him in PS and thought he had the chops, but wow, what a fall-off)
1 in 2012 (Ebert in Round 7)
0 in 2011

There's ten years of WR drafting, 8 picks:
1 in Round 1
1 in Round 2
0 in Round 3
2 in Round 4
0 in Round 5
1 in Round 6
3 in Round 7

What the hell do you expect? If I had been picking in 2019, by the way, the Pats would have had either AJ Brown or Deebo Samuel in Round 1, and when Metcalf was still on the board in Round 2, he'd be wearing the Flying Elvis. Would have traded up in Round 5 to get Hunter Renfrow, as well.

That's not hindsight - I was shouting at the TV. We would have lost JJ Williams and Froholdt.

 

[moosekill]

Wow. Some fans can't even accept a rebuild done properly, even though we have 2 dynasties as evidence in 20 years.

The team needs some infusion at 3-4 DE, MLB and WR/TE. Other than that, the last drafts have them in really nice shape for the youth movement he's been doing now for the last 2-3 drafts. They have a top OL, RBs, some nice looking players on defense, another possible undrafted gem in Myles Bryant, and with time, all these younger players getting experience now, will benefit.

Harry/Meyers are a 2 and 3 WR, Gunner maybe can be groomed to be an Amendola, and so forth. With the cap tumbling in the spring, numerous FAs will be squeezed and BB has money to fill in the gaps strategically, possibly at TE and even WR. They do need a #1 and maybe they do that in the mid part of Rd 1 this year, to build around someone like a Stidham.

But, some of you must watch different games. I see young players making plays every week.

This impatience and immaturity with entitlement happened back in 2009/2010, too, where fans didn't want to see a proper rebuilding happen here. I am glad we have the greatest GM in cap era history, because when that cap drops next year, a lot of teams will get worse, while this team's youth base is already being built.

I have to believe BB knows he's not there yet with the building, so he's not looking to get Stidham hurt or have him develop any bad habits during a pandemic and without a proper offseason, which I get, but Newton is so awful, it makes one wonder why you wouldn't give Stidham the chance to move forward for next year.

Very strange to see Belichick and Josh publicly gush over a horrible QB like this, one who represents the complete anthesis of what BB looks for in a QB. It doesn't quite make sense other than they couldn't see Stidham's offseason work and the progress in time and just put all the time into Newton, except McDaniels is trying to put a square peg into a round hole. It's why Tebow got invited to camp in 2013 when McDaniels came back. He wanted a toy. Well, no thanks. Those toys don't work, as we see with Lamar Jackson already regressing.

Why there isn't Pony packages more so with more Newton designed runs, like earlier in the year, is beyond me. And, the play-calling has been atrocious. What happened to that play-action play to Jakob Johnson vs the Raiders?

Cam isn't the antithesis of what Bill looks for in a qb. I think BIll would love to build a team that could run the ball down the opponents throat with a qb that makes enough throws to keep the defense honest, and doesn't commit turnovers. Look at the early Brady years and the New York Giant years. I think the problem is Cam isn't good enough at this point to keep the defense honest, and when he tries, he makes turnovers.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Based on the first two games and the last two games. Based on Seattle - clutch in Q4, including a beauty at the goal line. Based on a high-point touchdown that shows me a corner is going to have a miserable time with him in the red zone. Based on the last couple of weeks, the adjustment to the long ball and the strong hands.

When they throw it to him and it's not in the dirt, he catches it. Cam laid him out to get killed over the middle, he caught it, he held it, and then he missed some time with a concussion.

I don't know how anyone here could have watched Brady at the end of last year or Cam this year, and still be thinking it's all on the receivers. Brady very clearly wanted nothing to do with anyone who didn't know the system cold (how was any rookie who missed most of camp be anywhere near that?) and Newton, and the offense McDaniels wants to run, has little to do with WRs.

I don't think Harry was a good pick in Round 1, particularly for this offensive philosophy, and he wasn't my first choice, but he's not without the tools to be a good, very good, NFL receiver.

You ask what other picks have gone on elsewhere...they picked
0 WRs in 2020
1 in 2019 (Harry in Round 1)
1 in 2018 (Berrios in 6th Round)
0 in 2017
2 in 2016 (Mitchell in Round 4, who helped win a SB before his injuries ended his career, and Lucien in Round 7)
0 in 2015
1 in 2014 (Gallon in Round 7)
2 in 2013 (Dobson in Round 2 (519 yards as a rookie, before getting riddled with injuries and Boyce in Round 4 - I don't even know what happened there, to be honest. Loved him in PS and thought he had the chops, but wow, what a fall-off)
1 in 2012 (Ebert in Round 7)
0 in 2011

There's ten years of WR drafting, 8 picks:
1 in Round 1
1 in Round 2
0 in Round 3
2 in Round 4
0 in Round 5
1 in Round 6
3 in Round 7

What the hell do you expect? If I had been picking in 2019, by the way, the Pats would have had either AJ Brown or Deebo Samuel in Round 1, and when Metcalf was still on the board in Round 2, he'd be wearing the Flying Elvis. Would have traded up in Round 5 to get Hunter Renfrow, as well.

That's not hindsight - I was shouting at the TV. We would have lost JJ Williams and Froholdt.

Again that’s nothing new. We know they need help when it comes to scouting wrs in college. My point is you are what you are. I don’t see harry going elsewhere and being a successful player.

 

[50-yard-line]

Again that’s nothing new. We know they need help when it comes to scouting wrs in college. My point is you are what you are. I don’t see harry going elsewhere and being a successful player.

You could be right and I don't know if we'll get the chance to see him elsewhere, but I'll tell you what, if the Pats are way down on him and I'm coaching, say, Atlanta, I make a trade and grab him. Ryan would throw him the ball and he'd catch it - a lot.

 

[ashley]

4 draft picks from the past 5 years? Bill's dog could've done better than that...

It's not like we're picking in the top 10 any year though...and you can't forget, Bill made the greatest draft pick in the history of the NFL...you have to give him credit Captain for that...He picked the GOAT...Tom Fricken Brady in the 6th round!!!!To me, that buys him a lot of forgiveness...and the 6 rings doesn't hurt either. lol

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Its the QB

Brady had 12 wins last year with a worse cast of players.

James White has 0 TDs to date. One of the best WR options the Pats have has been skunked by somebody. Cam has 10 rushing TDs though because he wants to be the star of the show. Rushing is always in the back of his head whereas Brady wants to pass and running is a last ditch option.

If BB brings Cam back for round 2 he is truly gone crazy.

Back in the late 90s I was critical of The Statue who could not consistently throw a simple screen or outlet pass to a RB or a WR at the LOS.
I thought Bledsoe was the worst.
I was SO wrong.
R.I.P. James White

 

[sb1]

Its the QB

Brady had 12 wins last year with a worse cast of players.

James White has 0 TDs to date. One of the best WR options the Pats have has been skunked by somebody. Cam has 10 rushing TDs though because he wants to be the star of the show. Rushing is always in the back of his head whereas Brady wants to pass and running is a last ditch option.

If BB brings Cam back for round 2 he is truly gone crazy.

I don't know if we can upgrade in FA. Dak will be a major upgrade but he will blow our cap space and I doubt Jerruh will let him walk.

I expect there will be definitely be an upgrade with the offensive weapons, I think Bill saying what he said yesterday is a tell to what's going to happen. For QB there will be a bridge whether it's Cam or someone else + I think we will move up to grab a QB. The opportunity that they have with this draft and the need at QB is too good to pass up.

Would be nice if they could move up to Lawrence but I don't see it. There's no chance the Jets will trade Lawrence to us but if it's the Jags we're probably looking at coughing up at least 2 firsts and 2 seconds to move that far up. At least, since other teams will probably want to do the same. We have too many needs to do that.

 

[PatsRebuild]

Cam isn't the antithesis of what Bill looks for in a qb. I think BIll would love to build a team that could run the ball down the opponents throat with a qb that makes enough throws to keep the defense honest, and doesn't commit turnovers. Look at the early Brady years and the New York Giant years. I think the problem is Cam isn't good enough at this point to keep the defense honest, and when he tries, he makes turnovers.

When you have a dumb QB who can't throw, get the ball out, read Ds, etc., yes, it's not a QB skill set that shows what he's looking for. If Brady didn't jump on a fumble in a SB, I am not sure many of our fans would forgive it. This isn't Carolina. I agree that Cam is cooked which is why Carolina walked. The guy has 5 billion miles on those legs and a bad shoulder. He's literally nothing like the QB prototype BB essentially invented when he was in Cleveland, looking for a solution to slow footed Kosar....And then Bledsoe....It's the feet that are the key. Brady is slower now with his feet as well. He's not as good. He's still good, but nowhere near what he was 3 or 4 years ago.

Lastly, the D and STs won all the games last year except for the Brown debut game vs Miami. Once NE was forced to cut the lunatic, Brady pouted and sucked.

 

[Triumph]

Back in the late 90s I was critical of The Statue who could not consistently throw a simple screen or outlet pass to a RB or a WR at the LOS.
I thought Bledsoe was the worst.
I was SO wrong.
R.I.P. James White

Remember the Bledsoe apologists?

Remember the KFFL and AOL boards? The Bledsoe love was sickening.

 

[sb1]

Remember the Bledsoe apologists?

Remember the KFFL and AOL boards? The Bledsoe love was sickening.

ESPN Pats board was mostly on board with Brady but IIRC there were a couple that followed Bledsoe to Buffalo and became Bills fans.

 

[PatsRebuild]

It's not like we're picking in the top 10 any year though...and you can't forget, Bill made the greatest draft pick in the history of the NFL...you have to give him credit Captain for that...He picked the GOAT...Tom Fricken Brady in the 6th round!!!!To me, that buys him a lot of forgiveness...and the 6 rings doesn't hurt either. lol

He also is responsible for developing Brady and JimmyG. He didn't just draft him, he made him who he is today. That's what is so funny about this whole thing. When you have the greatest football mind ever giving you the answers to the test, that's why Brady evolved into who he is. People forget his really bumpy first year playing leading into the SB and the idea Bledsoe helped get them there vs Pitt. HIs 2002 season was poor, he didn't progress, but once he got more experience and some improved weapons who were younger, he started to grow. Apparently, some younger fans weren't around to see what actually happened, and have been conditioned to think Brady never made a mistake.

 

[Triumph]

It's not like we're picking in the top 10 any year though...and you can't forget, Bill made the greatest draft pick in the history of the NFL...you have to give him credit Captain for that...He picked the GOAT...Tom Fricken Brady in the 6th round!!!!To me, that buys him a lot of forgiveness...and the 6 rings doesn't hurt either. lol

Yup

Belichick knew the GOAT was sitting there round 1,2,3,4,5,6. **** Rebien. Remember him? He was begging Belichick to draft Brady until Belichick finally relented in the 6th round.

Brady was a fluke that will never happen again. Belichick had no clue that Brady would be this good. If Belichick did know he would not have risked losing Brady 199 picks into the draft.

**** Rebein who passed on deserves 100% of the credit for Brady.

 

[amfootball]

He also is responsible for developing Brady and JimmyG. He didn't just draft him, he made him who he is today. That's what is so funny about this whole thing. When you have the greatest football mind ever giving you the answers to the test, that's why Brady evolved into who he is. People forget his really bumpy first year playing leading into the SB and the idea Bledsoe helped get them there vs Pitt. HIs 2002 season was poor, he didn't progress, but once he got more experience and some improved weapons who were younger, he started to grow. Apparently, some younger fans weren't around to see what actually happened, and have been conditioned to think Brady never made a mistake.

How come Bill could not give those answers to the test to Bledsoe?

 

[sb1]

It's not like we're picking in the top 10 any year though...and you can't forget, Bill made the greatest draft pick in the history of the NFL...you have to give him credit Captain for that...He picked the GOAT...Tom Fricken Brady in the 6th round!!!!To me, that buys him a lot of forgiveness...and the 6 rings doesn't hurt either. lol

Was Brady a really a "great" draft pick if he went at 199? If he went in the first round then yes that was the greatest pick. Probably would have gotten the Pats GM fired at the time though.

I think giving Brady a chance over Bledsoe was the greatest decision in the history of the NFL and credit to Bill for that. Only one coach would have done that and we have him.

 

[ashley]

Yup

Belichick knew the GOAT was sitting there round 1,2,3,4,5,6. **** Rebien. Remember him? He was begging Belichick to draft Brady until Belichick finally relented in the 6th round.

Brady was a fluke that will never happen again. Belichick had no clue that Brady would be this good. If Belichick did know he would not have risked losing Brady 199 picks into the draft.

**** Rebein who passed on deserves 100% of the credit for Brady.

In the end though it's Bill's call and wow, what a call that was...the greatest draft pick ever by the GOAT of coaches. Can't beat it!!!!