BB in damage control mode regarding Brady's departure

[RobertWeathers]

Why would we assume that changing the model to spend more resources on receivers would have made the team better?
I always saw the plan as spending more heavily on players not impacted by Brady because Brady allowed you to spend less and elevate those players. It’s a zero sum gain. To give Brady more weapons would mean a different part of the team would be weaker.
In hindsight it was very smart.

Clearly Tom didn't have that perspective.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Clearly Tom didn't have that perspective.

I agree that Bill had the right strategy with receivers/skill players…and I’ve argued for years this is why the Patriots had a big edge, and this why teams like the Packers, Chiefs, Colts have been stupid. Brady makes linemen and receivers better, so don’t overpay. However, it isn’t that black and white either. You still need at least a minimal level of talent to make the train go around the track, and that quote being from 2006 makes sense. 2006 and 2013 were seasons where no QB could spin that into gold, though Brady spun them into bronze.

It happened in 2019 as well, though Bill did try to bring in players…they just didn’t work out, and the offensive line was bad too, unlike 2006/13. I think Tom was pissed about Kraft cutting AB more than anything, since that’s when his attitude changed and the first we heard about personnel input. That, and seeing the team fail to placate Gronk. I think losing AB and Gronk to what he perceived as stubborn team decisions were what led to his “demands” and frustration…not the desire to build a fantasy team of expensive receivers.

Tom was right about 2006. That was a joke squad of WRs and Caldwell dropped a likely championship. To say Tom didn’t have that perspective misses most of the history of the dynasty. He always played well with what he had. In 2019 things soured on multiple levels…it’s not to say Tom was always *****ing about not having expensive skill players.

I don’t even think the Patriots deprived him of that talent. This seems to be a lot recency bias…I always thought their offense was built in a brilliant, efficient way in regards to the salary cap. Inexpensive, drafted 3rd down backs like Faulk, Vereen, White, Lewis. Market cheap “slot receivers” who kicked ass. One dominating stud like Gronk/Moss, then whatever luxuries were left over for guys like LaFell, Bennett, Hogan, etc. #1 offense in the league from 2001-19…why throw all this money at it for shrinking ROI? That’s what other teams do and a big reason Manning and Rodgers often face plant in the end.

 

[gobesmug]

I agree that Bill had the right strategy with receivers/skill players…and I’ve argued for years this is why the Patriots had a big edge, and this why teams like the Packers, Chiefs, Colts have been stupid. Brady makes linemen and receivers better, so don’t overpay. However, it isn’t that black and white either. You still need at least a minimal level of talent to make the train go around the track, and that quote being from 2006 makes sense. 2006 and 2013 were seasons where no QB could spin that into gold, though Brady spun them into bronze.

It happened in 2019 as well, though Bill did try to bring in players…they just didn’t work out, and the offensive line was bad too, unlike 2006/13. I think Tom was pissed about Kraft cutting AB more than anything, since that’s when his attitude changed and the first we heard about personnel input. That, and seeing the team fail to placate Gronk. I think losing AB and Gronk to what he perceived as stubborn team decisions were what led to his “demands” and frustration…not the desire to build a fantasy team of expensive receivers.

Tom was right about 2006. That was a joke squad of WRs and Caldwell dropped a likely championship. To say Tom didn’t have that perspective misses most of the history of the dynasty. He always played well with what he had. In 2019 things soured on multiple levels…it’s not to say Tom was always *****ing about not having expensive skill players.

I don’t even think the Patriots deprived him of that talent. This seems to be a lot recency bias…I always thought their offense was built in a brilliant, efficient way in regards to the salary cap. Inexpensive, drafted 3rd down backs like Faulk, Vereen, White, Lewis. Market cheap “slot receivers” who kicked ass. One dominating stud like Gronk/Moss, then whatever luxuries were left over for guys like LaFell, Bennett, Hogan, etc. #1 offense in the league from 2001-19…why throw all this money at it for shrinking ROI? That’s what other teams do and a big reason Manning and Rodgers often face plant in the end.

I think it had more to do with wanting more guarantees in the contract, 2 years at 50 vs the 1 year at 21.

And wanting some say in the WRs and TEs they pursued.

Brady was probably pissed when Branch didn't get resigned, when Moss was traded, not giving Welker the contract he required to stay, trying to Trade Gronk, and finally by cutting AB.

Brady also trained with TO for a couple years, so it's possible he was internally lobbying for him but got shutdown. Admittedly that's pure speculation

I'm not arguing any of those moves just that Brady was probably pissed when they happened.

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly Tom didn't have that perspective.

Not sure about that since he stayed 19 years.

 

[Ring 6]

Typical mediots, though I knew it was probably hearsay. I heard the lines a couple of times from different sources and had the impression that Bob got a little tipsy out in Denver and was talking to someone, possibly jokingly, when he said it. You think it's all made up?

Who knows. All I know is it came from an unnamed source, just like the stories about what was said in private conversations between people who were not interviewed.
Could be true, could be made up, could be someone with an agenda feeding him lies. Doesn’t really matter, if the person saying it is anonymous, it isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
Unfortunately it is what happens now because 8,000,000 media outlets pas along the salacious headlines.
I saw Rich Eisen ask Wickersham how belichick and Brady will act this Sunday since he is an expert on how they think and feel. Based upon writing book about then without speaking to them. Crazy ****.

 

[IllegalContact]

Belichick doesn’t need damage control. Each person wanted their own terms and BB had the power.

BBs deal with Kraft undoubtedly has stipulations that aren’t allowed in a player contract that given him ultimate say.

In the ‘eyes of the franchise’, Brady wanted to be an equal to BB……he was never going to get that

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree that Bill had the right strategy with receivers/skill players…and I’ve argued for years this is why the Patriots had a big edge, and this why teams like the Packers, Chiefs, Colts have been stupid. Brady makes linemen and receivers better, so don’t overpay. However, it isn’t that black and white either. You still need at least a minimal level of talent to make the train go around the track, and that quote being from 2006 makes sense. 2006 and 2013 were seasons where no QB could spin that into gold, though Brady spun them into bronze.

It happened in 2019 as well, though Bill did try to bring in players…they just didn’t work out, and the offensive line was bad too, unlike 2006/13. I think Tom was pissed about Kraft cutting AB more than anything, since that’s when his attitude changed and the first we heard about personnel input. That, and seeing the team fail to placate Gronk. I think losing AB and Gronk to what he perceived as stubborn team decisions were what led to his “demands” and frustration…not the desire to build a fantasy team of expensive receivers.

Tom was right about 2006. That was a joke squad of WRs and Caldwell dropped a likely championship. To say Tom didn’t have that perspective misses most of the history of the dynasty. He always played well with what he had. In 2019 things soured on multiple levels…it’s not to say Tom was always *****ing about not having expensive skill players.

I don’t even think the Patriots deprived him of that talent. This seems to be a lot recency bias…I always thought their offense was built in a brilliant, efficient way in regards to the salary cap. Inexpensive, drafted 3rd down backs like Faulk, Vereen, White, Lewis. Market cheap “slot receivers” who kicked ass. One dominating stud like Gronk/Moss, then whatever luxuries were left over for guys like LaFell, Bennett, Hogan, etc. #1 offense in the league from 2001-19…why throw all this money at it for shrinking ROI? That’s what other teams do and a big reason Manning and Rodgers often face plant in the end.

To clarify, I meant specific to 2005 as he was a younger player and still perhaps a little green but Tom absolutely lobbied for skill players which is fine.

What he may have purposely overlooked was the cap/team composition philosophy Bill had in place....and because it was cap/cash friendly Bob went along.

I think Tom grew tired of that constraint and certainly didn't appreciate the patchwork effort of the offense in the 2018 and 2019 seasons.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not sure about that since he stayed 19 years.

In the early years I don't think he did.

In his later years here agree.

 

[1960Pats]

Who knows. All I know is it came from an unnamed source, just like the stories about what was said in private conversations between people who were not interviewed.
Could be true, could be made up, could be someone with an agenda feeding him lies. Doesn’t really matter, if the person saying it is anonymous, it isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
Unfortunately it is what happens now because 8,000,000 media outlets pas along the salacious headlines.
I saw Rich Eisen ask Wickersham how belichick and Brady will act this Sunday since he is an expert on how they think and feel. Based upon writing book about then without speaking to them. Crazy ****.

Crazy **** for crazy times.

 

[amfootball]

Who knows. All I know is it came from an unnamed source, just like the stories about what was said in private conversations between people who were not interviewed.
Could be true, could be made up, could be someone with an agenda feeding him lies. Doesn’t really matter, if the person saying it is anonymous, it isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
Unfortunately it is what happens now because 8,000,000 media outlets pas along the salacious headlines.
I saw Rich Eisen ask Wickersham how belichick and Brady will act this Sunday since he is an expert on how they think and feel. Based upon writing book about then without speaking to them. Crazy ****.

Wickersham has spoken to all of them many times. He has covered them going back to 2001. They just didn't provide any direct quotes for this book. It does not mean that he does not know them well. He does.

 

[Ring 6]

Wickersham has spoken to all of them many times. He has covered them going back to 2001. They just didn't provide any direct quotes for this book. It does not mean that he does not know them well. He does.

No he does not.

 

[Biffins]

Belichick doesn’t need damage control. Each person wanted their own terms and BB had the power.

BBs deal with Kraft undoubtedly has stipulations that aren’t allowed in a player contract that given him ultimate say.

In the ‘eyes of the franchise’, Brady wanted to be an equal to BB……he was never going to get that

It's not that simple. BB is sticking to a model (chucking players out at a certain time/age, treating any player no different than others) that he believes has worked for him and makes sense to him and should continue working for him................. except the only time this model worked for him is when he always had Brady.

BB's modus operandi is unproven sans Brady. We have no out of sample results to encourage us.

Infact we have in-sample bungling of the situation when he wanted to replace Brady with Jimmy G and in effect stick to his model and chuck Brady out a year earlier rather than later blah blah. Except it would have been a colossal error had he done that in 2016. Brady went on to take Patriots to the next 3 SuperBowls, 2016-2018. And would have won 2017 as well was it not for the Butler benching.

So BB was just verifiably wrong. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to claim that Jimmy G would have done as well as Brady 2016-2018 as Patriots QB had BB followed through on his plan (although I clearly don't have the counterfactual on this).

Also when BB finally did get his away, ultimately following through on his assessment of anticipated decline in Brady's production (for which he already know he was wrong before via the Jimmy G substitution attempt), the results and data so far are not looking good for BB's assessment of the QB position. Brady is clearly performing well, not deteriorating, and outperforming any contract we could have given him. We are losers out of the situation to release Brady so far on merit. And whether Mac Jones works is irrelevent. We could have always picked up an heir apparent when Brady eventually retired. We're just discussing BB's assessment (or lack thereof) of Brady's skills.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's not that simple. BB is sticking to a model (chucking players out at a certain time/age, treating any player no different than others) that he believes has worked for him and makes sense to him and should continue working for him................. except the only time this model worked for him is when he always had Brady.

BB's modus operandi is unproven sans Brady. We have no out of sample results to encourage us.

Infact we have in-sample bungling of the situation when he wanted to replace Brady with Jimmy G and in effect stick to his model and chuck Brady out a year earlier rather than later blah blah. Except it would have been a colossal error had he done that in 2016. Brady went on to take Patriots to the next 3 SuperBowls, 2016-2018. And would have won 2017 as well was it not for the Butler benching.

So BB was just verifiably wrong. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to claim that Jimmy G would have done as well as Brady 2016-2018 as Patriots QB had BB followed through on his plan (although I clearly don't have the counterfactual on this).

Also when BB finally did get his away, ultimately following through on his assessment of anticipated decline in Brady's production (for which he already know he was wrong before via the Jimmy G substitution attempt), the results and data so far are not looking good for BB's assessment of the QB position. Brady is clearly performing well, not deteriorating, and outperforming any contract we could have given him. We are losers out of the situation to release Brady so far on merit. And whether Mac Jones works is irrelevent. We could have always picked up an heir apparent when Brady eventually retired. We're just discussing BB's assessment (or lack thereof) of Brady's skills.

it is completely that simple….BB calls the shots ….. until he doesn’t

 

[1960Pats]

It's not that simple. BB is sticking to a model (chucking players out at a certain time/age, treating any player no different than others) that he believes has worked for him and makes sense to him and should continue working for him................. except the only time this model worked for him is when he always had Brady.

BB's modus operandi is unproven sans Brady. We have no out of sample results to encourage us.

Infact we have in-sample bungling of the situation when he wanted to replace Brady with Jimmy G and in effect stick to his model and chuck Brady out a year earlier rather than later blah blah. Except it would have been a colossal error had he done that in 2016. Brady went on to take Patriots to the next 3 SuperBowls, 2016-2018. And would have won 2017 as well was it not for the Butler benching.

So BB was just verifiably wrong. It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to claim that Jimmy G would have done as well as Brady 2016-2018 as Patriots QB had BB followed through on his plan (although I clearly don't have the counterfactual on this).

Also when BB finally did get his away, ultimately following through on his assessment of anticipated decline in Brady's production (for which he already know he was wrong before via the Jimmy G substitution attempt), the results and data so far are not looking good for BB's assessment of the QB position. Brady is clearly performing well, not deteriorating, and outperforming any contract we could have given him. We are losers out of the situation to release Brady so far on merit. And whether Mac Jones works is irrelevent. We could have always picked up an heir apparent when Brady eventually retired. We're just discussing BB's assessment (or lack thereof) of Brady's skills.

Letting Brady walk for nothing is Bob & Bill's Biggest Blunder.

 

[amfootball]

Letting Brady walk for nothing is Bob & Bill's Biggest Blunder.

It looks worse by the day. There was a report today that the Bucs and Brady will discuss another extension after this season. I think it is entirely possible that Brady does outlast Bill.

 

[1960Pats]

It looks worse by the day. There was a report today that the Bucs and Brady will discuss another extension after this season. I think it is entirely possible that Brady does outlast Bill.

Better to let a player go five years early than a year too late.

 

[Biffins]

Better to let a player go five years early than a year too late.

Considering we drafted Jimmy G in 2014, and Brady might be playing in 2024, more like 10 years early than a year too late..................

 

[venecol]

I was afraid of JJ on AB

 

[PittPatriot]

Considering we drafted Jimmy G in 2014, and Brady might be playing in 2024, more like 10 years early than a year too late..................

Jimmy G was there. I think they really liked him then...and would've liked him now.

 

[tom444]

Because Branch never gets traded if did so. Givens maybe re-signs as well who was an underrated clutch WR Brady leaned on. Moss is never traded in 2010. Welker is re-signed and not let go for peanuts in 2013. Gronk was completely off limits. The only reason he returned to the team in 2018 was because he found a loophole after getting traded and said to Bill he "retired". Lions then rescinded the trade. The draft would've been used for more offensive help throughout the years rather than wasted on defensive players that weren't needed and never made any impact on the team. AB doesn't get cut. If Tom truly wanted something, he could've gotten it. I just don't think he was very aggressive.

I remember that story too.

Well, that was the right move.