BB criticism, moderation, and open discussion

[Joker]

This Brady/Bill crap reminds me of P.O.W.'s in a WW2 prison camp discussing Major Major versus airman Yossarian, while being brutalized endlessly by the 10 ton gorilla in the gulag, Roger Stokoe Goodell....

 

[fnordcircle]

I'll never understand how someone can function being so insecure or thin-skinned. And it's almost always the tough talking types who seem to think of themselves as a modern day Clint Eastwood but who have these meltdown threads where they whine about jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs or whatever.

I don't like a lot of the rules here. I've broken them and had threads or posts deleted. Posts on a message board deleted. THE HORROR. I'm starting a class action lawsuit, DM me your personal info if you want in, we're going to take down Ian and his brigade of anti-freedom antifa mods.

 

[ashley]

Name all of the other quarterbacks in the league that would have won a Super Bowl with Tampa Bay this season?

As Ian said, I am a huge Brady fan, but lets face it, in the playoffs, Tampa won the NO game because of their defense, same goes for GB and same for the SB...give their d all the credit in the world, but to say that they wouldn't have won with other qb is a little silly. Don't forget Brady threw 3 int against GB and could have thrown two more...their defense was just incredible down the stretch.

 

[skinnydog]

There are some topics that are worth debating. Foreign policy, term-limits, taxation, cause of climate change, etc.

Debating BB/TB12 is the most galactically stupid debate of all-time.

Criticizing BB for draft picks, moving on from Tom, roster decisions, 4th and 2, etc are fine.

The folks that are constantly marginalizing a 6X Super Bowl winning coach are clueless.

Debating something like BB vs TB is actually welcome relief from debating politics especially in the current climate of the politicization of everything.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Debating something like BB vs TB is actually welcome relief from debating politics especially in the current climate of the politicization of everything.

Tru dat

 

[Joker]

Multiple threads devoted to Fnurd's deviant sexual lifestyle(s) and/or divorce proceedings would be supremely preferable to this Brady/BB snit fit crap...

 

[crawhammer]

As Ian said, I am a huge Brady fan, but lets face it, in the playoffs, Tampa won the NO game because of their defense, same goes for GB and same for the SB...give their d all the credit in the world, but to say that they wouldn't have won with other qb is a little silly. Don't forget Brady threw 3 int against GB and could have thrown two more...their defense was just incredible down the stretch.

Tampa Bay won their last 4 regular season games... their offense averaged 37 P/G.
Brady: 333 Y/G, 12 TD's, 1 INT... QBR's of 120.9, 110.4, 158.3 & 117.8

To get to the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay had to win 3 road playoff games... their offense scored 31, 30 & 31.
Brady: 287 Y/G, 7 TD's, 3 INT's... QBR's of 104.3, 92.9 & 73.8

The Bucs defense faced a quarterback who had 1 career start in the wild card game and they didn't exactly shut down Washington's offense. A lot of it probably had to do with Devin White being out of the lineup but still. Washington had the #2 ranked pass defense in the NFL this season and Brady lit them up.

The Bucs defense was great against New Orleans. Brady played an efficient game, mistake-free, and he made New Orleans pay for all their turnovers. I'm not sure what else you would have wanted out of Brady in this game.

The Bucs defense overall was good enough against Green Bay and great in some key moments. That said, Rodgers f'ing choked on the final goal line stance, which is no surprise, and further evidence that I'm not buying he could ever duplicate Brady's postseason success.

Brady was outstanding in the first half of the NFCCG and played flawlessly up to the point of the 28-10 lead. I could make excuses for the 3 picks but I understand it'll only work against my overall argument which is Brady played extremely well for most of the game. He had a really bad stretch of 3 picks in 7 pass attempts but no one is going to remember any of them. Everyone will remember the TD pass to Scotty Miller with 1 second left in the half.

Tampa Bay played their best game of the season in the Super Bowl. They dominated all three phases and didn't make any critical mistakes.
The defense was sensational. Brady posted his highest QBR of any Super Bowl (125.8), completed over 70% of his passes, and had 3 TD's (which could have been more so I can play that game too). Brady was as good as he needed to be. He also won his 5th Super Bowl MVP so let's not get silly and say Taylor Heinicke would have won the game.

If you're still questioning Brady's importance to Tampa Bay's success then you need to pay closer attention to the Tampa Bay owner, GM, head coach, assistant coaches, and players... all of whom said one player made the whole thing possible... Tom Brady.

 

[Calhoun44]

I'll never understand how someone can function being so insecure or thin-skinned. And it's almost always the tough talking types who seem to think of themselves as a modern day Clint Eastwood but who have these meltdown threads where they whine about jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs or whatever.

I don't like a lot of the rules here. I've broken them and had threads or posts deleted. Posts on a message board deleted. THE HORROR. I'm starting a class action lawsuit, DM me your personal info if you want in, we're going to take down Ian and his brigade of anti-freedom antifa mods.

I stared at James White crossing the goal line way longer than I care to admit. It's mesmerizing, not to mention completely awesome.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

As Ian said, I am a huge Brady fan, but lets face it, in the playoffs, Tampa won the NO game because of their defense, same goes for GB and same for the SB...give their d all the credit in the world, but to say that they wouldn't have won with other qb is a little silly. Don't forget Brady threw 3 int against GB and could have thrown two more...their defense was just incredible down the stretch.

I agree their defense deserves a tremendous amount of credit. The offense played overall pretty poorly in the NO game and for a large stretch of the GB game. Some of that was the coaching and some was Brady. He was lucky not to get picked off on a lot of passes in those two games.

But the offense, and Brady, did weather the storm and made some really big plays. They finished off almost every opportunity the defense gave them, too.

This isn’t a knock against the Patriots because the Bucs have banked so many top-10 picks for being bad for so many years, but I think player-for-player the Bucs starting 22 is as good as any roster Brady has had. They don’t have the depth and special teams of a typical Belichick roster, but that offense and defense is ridiculously stacked.

 

[Tony2046]

I don't think any of us expected to be here.

Stonewalling the media and telling them "I owe you no explanation" when you're on top of the world and winning all the time is great. I sure have enjoyed it.

Stonewalling your own fanbase by telling them "I owe you no explanation" when you made no offer to the greatest player of all-time, who signed somewhere else and won a championship, not so much.

The Patriots should expect that the fans and public would want more transparency here; it's human nature that you can't really move on from something when it remains controversial and unexplained. I'm not saying we need a chronicled account of what happened or that anyone needs to scream "I messed up and I'm sorry!", but I feel like this should not be treated with the same "we did what was best for the team - so f*ck off" response that works other times.

I think some of the increased criticism of Bill is more of an angry pushback to that "you're owed nothing, and this is what was best for the team!" attitude. At that point, it becomes a kneejerk reaction to find the most blatant examples of times when Bill's decisions were not always right for the team, despite him thinking they were. I know that almost all of my negative Bill posts have been an ongoing, frustrating attempt to establish that Bill is not infallible; and I almost feel dirty doing it, because I admire him so much and have learned so much from him. I don't want to crap on him but feel like I need to lay it on thicker and thicker when some members will not just acknowledge the obvious. In the end, I just feel worse.

But as long as that stonewalling exists, this criticism and demand for accountability will only grow. It isn't the Brady departure that's polarizing people so much; it's the idea that Belichick doesn't have to explain himself or account for the decision in any way as long as it made sense to him, and that he gets an exemption from second guessing, with that same general attitude carrying over to the fans. That may have worked for everything else, but it doesn't work for the Brady decision.

Personally I don't need an explanation. That relationship provided so much trash talking ammo and enough memorabilia to fill three mancaves that I don't care how it ended rather I'm grateful that it lasted twenty years.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Personally I don't need an explanation. That relationship provided so much trash talking ammo and enough memorabilia to fill three mancaves that I don't care how it ended rather I'm grateful that it lasted twenty years.

So you’re Team Bill then? I knew you were the snitch this whole time.

 

[Tony2046]

So you’re Team Bill then? I knew you were the snitch this whole time.

The only way that I could be more grateful to both BB and TB is if they had a baby together and named him Timmy "Pudge" Bradychick.

 

[Wozzy]

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/17/steelers-ben-roethlisberger-are-at-a-clear-crossroads/

"Already faced with a minimum reckoning of $22.25 million related to past cap hocus-pocus played with Roethlisberger’s contract, the Steelers need to figure out how much larger Big Ben’s cap number can be for 2021 while still having a competent team around him."

“The 2021 Steelers aren’t close enough to a Super Bowl to make one more year worth it. The 2021 Steelers have too many issues, thanks to the convergence of a shrinking salary cap and years of kicking the cap can.”

"Regardless, a decision to keep Roethlisberger could lead to regret. Even if he stays healthy all year long, it could be a long year for a Steelers team that will look a lot different than it did in 2020, due to the current shrinking of the cap and the past cap liberties the Steelers had taken. Maybe it makes more sense to see what Rudolph and/or Haskins can do in 2021, and then to look for the next Ben in the 2022 draft, if necessary."

Does this resonate with anyone?




I thought the Steelers were really good at drafting and therefore this wouldn’t happen?

I wonder if diehard Ben fans or Kevin Colbert (GM) haters will be in denial this ever happened?

 

[sb1]

As Ian said, I am a huge Brady fan, but lets face it, in the playoffs, Tampa won the NO game because of their defense, same goes for GB and same for the SB...give their d all the credit in the world, but to say that they wouldn't have won with other qb is a little silly. Don't forget Brady threw 3 int against GB and could have thrown two more...their defense was just incredible down the stretch.

The Bucs defense never deserved the criticism they got. It's one reason why in early December I said that team was not losing again.

 

[Wozzy]

The Bucs defense never deserved the criticism they got. It's one reason why in early December I said that team was not losing again.

The Bucs defense was a top five defense in the regular season. They were great.

The only thing that really needed fixing was the offense's refusal to run the ball and the fact they were leading the NFL in penalties a third of the way in.

They learned this lesson against the Saints the second time where they set a league record for fewest number of rushes in a single game and got obliterated. They also fixed the offsides and false start penalties.

Even the greatest collection of offensive weapons in history can't afford to be one dimensional. The 2007 Patriots ranked 9th in the NFL in rushing attempts, balance keeps you unpredictable, it opens up the passing game.

 

[Midship]

Drink it in, homers. It's always been about #12 and Bill pushed him out with nobody even remotely functional to replace him. Bill's legacy has taken a massive dive, whether you like to admit it or not.

 

[farn]

Love me some BB. Everything about him. Firstly, the focus on winning. Winning is awesome. It’s the only thing I care about (in terms of fandom). And he’s done more winning than anyone in his position. Ever. Secondly, I love the surly personality. It’s fun and beats the ridic sound bites no one cares about. It’s entertaining. Love it. Love BB the GM. Not afraid to move on early, not afraid to make trades, not afraid to go against the grain.

 

[Tony2046]

Drink it in, homers. It's always been about #12 and Bill pushed him out with nobody even remotely functional to replace him. Bill's legacy has taken a massive dive, whether you like to admit it or not.

"Massive dive" is for idiots. Media fed clickbait shortsighted BS.

I will say that if someone, reasonable, was 60/40 (or whatever) in favor of BB most likely now is 60/40 in favor of Brady. Including myself. Brady has effectively detached his legacy from Belichick's. "What Brady just did gives me goosebumps". Seriously, it was incredible.

But change the Brady vs BB argument to a 100/0, or whatever, is incredibly naive.

Half of the shyt Shady talks about is a direct reference to BB's teachings. Brady was the best student.

BB's legacy, which is the best ever, should never take a "massive hit".

 

[Ian]

^^^Patriots Fan In Name Only^^^

As much as I hate to ask this...why...?

As Ian said, I am a huge Brady fan, but lets face it, in the playoffs, Tampa won the NO game because of their defense, same goes for GB and same for the SB...give their d all the credit in the world, but to say that they wouldn't have won with other qb is a little silly. Don't forget Brady threw 3 int against GB and could have thrown two more...their defense was just incredible down the stretch.

Just to clarify - I wasn't downplaying Brady's performance, I was simply refuting the angle that he was going for - which I disagreed with.

 

[venecol]

Tampa Bay won their last 4 regular season games... their offense averaged 37 P/G.
Brady: 333 Y/G, 12 TD's, 1 INT... QBR's of 120.9, 110.4, 158.3 & 117.8

To get to the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay had to win 3 road playoff games... their offense scored 31, 30 & 31.
Brady: 287 Y/G, 7 TD's, 3 INT's... QBR's of 104.3, 92.9 & 73.8

The Bucs defense faced a quarterback who had 1 career start in the wild card game and they didn't exactly shut down Washington's offense. A lot of it probably had to do with Devin White being out of the lineup but still. Washington had the #2 ranked pass defense in the NFL this season and Brady lit them up.

The Bucs defense was great against New Orleans. Brady played an efficient game, mistake-free, and he made New Orleans pay for all their turnovers. I'm not sure what else you would have wanted out of Brady in this game.

The Bucs defense overall was good enough against Green Bay and great in some key moments. That said, Rodgers f'ing choked on the final goal line stance, which is no surprise, and further evidence that I'm not buying he could ever duplicate Brady's postseason success.

Brady was outstanding in the first half of the NFCCG and played flawlessly up to the point of the 28-10 lead. I could make excuses for the 3 picks but I understand it'll only work against my overall argument which is Brady played extremely well for most of the game. He had a really bad stretch of 3 picks in 7 pass attempts but no one is going to remember any of them. Everyone will remember the TD pass to Scotty Miller with 1 second left in the half.

Tampa Bay played their best game of the season in the Super Bowl. They dominated all three phases and didn't make any critical mistakes.
The defense was sensational. Brady posted his highest QBR of any Super Bowl (125.8), completed over 70% of his passes, and had 3 TD's (which could have been more so I can play that game too). Brady was as good as he needed to be. He also won his 5th Super Bowl MVP so let's not get silly and say Taylor Heinicke would have won the game.

If you're still questioning Brady's importance to Tampa Bay's success then you need to pay closer attention to the Tampa Bay owner, GM, head coach, assistant coaches, and players... all of whom said one player made the whole thing possible... Tom Brady.

It sounds crazy to me that almost everyone picked Saints over Bucs. Same for Packers over Bucs (remember warm weather teams can't win in GB?). Then 80% picked Chiefs over Bucs.

Now, any QB could've beat NO in the Superdome, Green Bay in the frozen tundra, and the awesomest high scoring World Champions, KC Chiefs in the SB.

Apparently any QB but Brady, "before" each one of those games.